What 6mm bullet for cougars and wolves?

[Formidilosus]

115gr DTAC with Nose Ring

How many animals have you used the NR DTAC’s on, and what were the results?

 

[Msowa]

How many animals have you used the NR DTAC’s on, and what were the results?

Tubb started ringing his DTAC’s to improve performance on baboons is how it was explained to me. We shoot a lot of them in competition, they’ve been very consistent for my son and I. Promoting expansion with the ring has got to be a winner in my mind

 

[Formidilosus]

Tubb started ringing his DTAC’s to improve performance on baboons is how it was explained to me. We shoot a lot of them in competition, they’ve been very consistent for my son and I. Promoting expansion with the ring has got to be a winner in my mind

Have shot 8 elk and several deer with them, as well as a turkey. The ring doesn’t help them fragment as much as you’d hope. Above 2,300fps impact, they tumble and do fragment pretty well, below that they tumble but not fragment often unless hitting bone.

They do tumble consistently after 6’ish inches of penetration so far, and have killed elk well and deer adequately. The turkey shots were ice picks.


Last deer at 2,370fps impact, sideways bullet exit-




Right at 2,300fps impact, and able to track the bullet tumbling through the chest-



Tumbling creates very good wounds if a bullet does so consistently.

 

[Msowa]

Have shot 8 elk and several deer with them, as well as a turkey. The ring doesn’t help them fragment as much as you’d hope. Above 2,300fps impact, they tumble and do fragment pretty well, below that they tumble but not fragment often unless hitting bone.

They do tumble consistently after 6’ish inches of penetration so far, and have killed elk well and deer adequately. The turkey shots were ice picks.


Last deer at 2,370fps impact, sideways bullet exit-

View attachment 475746


Right at 2,300fps impact, and able to track the bullet tumbling through the chest-
View attachment 475747


Tumbling creates very good wounds if a bullet does so consistently.

So you’re saying they kill lol. Outta help the OP weigh his options

 

[Formidilosus]

So you’re saying they kill Outta help the OP narrow his options.

So do FMJ’s.

I’m saying that DTAC’s would be one of the last bullets I would want for cats and wolves as their mechanism of injury is tumbling… after penetrating deeper than most cats and wolves chests.

 

[Msowa]

So do FMJ’s.

I’m saying that DTAC’s would be one of the last bullets I would want for cats and wolves as their mechanism of injury is tumbling… after penetrating deeper than most cats and wolves chests.

I see your point. I recommended them based on how accurate they’ve been for me and that, in theory and Tubb’s experiences, the nose ring causes expansion but apparently that’s not been your findings; cool. is it possible the front of the bullets in fact do explode and the remaining back half tumble?
Looks like the pictured kills were pass through so no recovered bullets?

 

[Formidilosus]

I see your point. I recommended them based on how accurate they’ve been for me and that, in theory and Tubb’s experiences, the nose ring causes expansion but apparently that’s not been your findings; cool.

How does the tip break off or collapse? Think about it.

is it possible the front of the bullets in fact do explode and the remaining back half tumble?

No. At extremely high impact velocities, near 2,900fps, the whole bullets fragments. Below that to about 2,400-2,300fps impact- they penetrate straight line and then like all pointed non expanding projectiles, the force in a medium denser than air causes the bullet to yaw (tumble) then the tip breaks off from lateral pressure and generally the bullet breaks/fragments the front half. Somewhere below 2,400fps impact, the bullet yaws, the tip breaks off, but there isn’t sufficient velocity to fragment the bullet and you can track the tumbling path/shape all the way through the animal.

Having said that, it seems that about 25% of them for whatever reason, do fragment from the front much like other BTHP match projectiles.

Looks like the pictured kills were pass through so no recovered bullets?

Those are just two of a dozen or so animals last year shot with them. However, they have been tested in properly calibrated 10% ballistics gel and the performance is the same as in live tissue. They kill bigger game fine as tumbling (yawing) is an effective mechanism for wounding, but they are erratic in how they do so and are not a good choice for smaller bodied animals. For elk, I like what they do so far- tumble and exit every time. For deer- meh. They have killed ok, but they are not dramatic and the tumbling happens generally in the far lung of a broadside animal- which means one lung has a smaller than 6mm hole in it, and the other has a 1.5-2” long slit in it.

 

[Msowa]

How does the tip break off or collapse? Think about it.




No. At extremely high impact velocities, near 2,900fps, the whole bullets fragments. Below that to about 2,400-2,300fps impact- they penetrate straight line and then like all pointed non expanding projectiles, the force in a medium denser than air causes the bullet to yaw (tumble) then the tip breaks off from lateral pressure and generally the bullet breaks/fragments the front half. Somewhere below 2,400fps impact, the bullet yaws, the tip breaks off, but there isn’t sufficient velocity to fragment the bullet and you can track the tumbling path/shape all the way through the animal.

Having said that, it seems that about 25% of them for whatever reason, do fragment from the front much like other BTHP match projectiles.




Those are just two of a dozen or so animals last year shot with them. However, they have been tested in properly calibrated 10% ballistics gel and the performance is the same as in live tissue. They kill bigger game fine as tumbling (yawing) is an effective mechanism for wounding, but they are erratic in how they do so and are not a good choice for smaller bodied animals. For elk, I like what they do so far- tumble and exit every time. For deer- meh. They have killed ok, but they are not dramatic and the tumbling happens generally in the far lung of a broadside animal- which means one lung has a smaller than 6mm hole in it, and the other has a 1.5-2” long slit in it.

Fantastic data, thanks for sharing

 

[Formidilosus]

Fantastic data, thanks for sharing

If you use them in animals, I would appreciate any pics or results you could share.

 

[Trogon]

Have shot 8 elk and several deer with them, as well as a turkey. The ring doesn’t help them fragment as much as you’d hope. Above 2,300fps impact, they tumble and do fragment pretty well, below that they tumble but not fragment often unless hitting bone.

They do tumble consistently after 6’ish inches of penetration so far, and have killed elk well and deer adequately. The turkey shots were ice picks.


Last deer at 2,370fps impact, sideways bullet exit-

View attachment 475746


Right at 2,300fps impact, and able to track the bullet tumbling through the chest-
View attachment 475747


Tumbling creates very good wounds if a bullet does so consistently.

What’s your first 6mm bullet choice for deer/elk?

 

[Formidilosus]

What’s your first 6mm bullet choice for deer/elk?

Of what’s currently available, the 108gr ELD-M is what I would choose. If someone wanted a bit deeper penetration the Hornady 105gr HPBT is what I would use.

 

[MHWASH]

Of what’s currently available, the 108gr ELD-M is what I would choose. If someone wanted a bit deeper penetration the Hornady 105gr HPBT is what I would use.

What if your rifle won't group the 100+ grain bullets?

 

[Formidilosus]

What if your rifle won't group the 100+ grain bullets?

95gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

 

[ToolMann]

95gr Nosler Ballistic Tip.

I switched from 100 grain Hornady BTSP to 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip per @Formidilosus suggestion. Huge improvement in accuracy. This from a Remington 700 SPS that was originally a youth model. Now wears a full size stock. I would have sold that rifle years ago if it wasn't my sons first rifle 14 years ago.

 

[sandhill_hunter]

In my opinion the best 6mm bullet is the 87gr Vmax. It can be shot at high velocities, it carries a lot of energy for a varmint bullet and the BC is amazing if you are shooting at distance. I bet it would be great for both of those.

 

[Sdvldog1371]

You probably have a 1:10 twist. Conventional wisdom would say stay at or under 100 grain weight. Spitzer and flat base bullets are probably your best bet for accuracy; and sticking with a bonded bullet is best for harvesting according to gel testing compared to modern low drag bullets. I hope this helps.

 

[False_Cast]

If you have a 9 twist I doubt you’ll ever get the 103/105/108 to work. I couldn’t hit a 2 foot square with a 9.25 twist I had with the 103s

Just FYI to anyone reading this thread, many guys shoot the 105 HPBT in their factory Rem 700 243 (1:9.25" ROT) barrels with success.

That's my projectile of choice out of my factory barreled 700 and it works on whitetails and I'd be what I'd use on elk, too. Form has never led me astray and I'd try the 95 NBT if I needed a shorter projectile for a slower twist barrel.

 

[Terrapin]

I have killed hundreds of animals using 95gr Ballistic Tips and Hornady 87gr BTHPs. Mostly out of slow twist 6mm Rem and factory 243 barrels. Worked great on coyotes and deer sized game. They both shot well in every rifle I loaded them for. I would not use them on larger game, they are pretty soft and I doubt the would penetrate the shoulder on an elk.


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