Western Mountaineering Lynx (-10) GWS good enough for Idaho in Oct?

[jonnycoder]

I plan to backpack hunt during rifle elk in the McCall zone and would like a sleeping bag that will handle a big freeze. Weight is not a concern only being warm.
Is -10bag going to be comfortable if the overnight temp drops to 10-20 f?

Background info:
I sleep cold.
I was in the McCall zone last year by a creek when that big low came in before the big storm around Oct 14, inside my jumping jack trailer, with a rustic ridge -35 degree canvas sleeping bag and I was cold. I had to use my Mr Buddy heater to help get out of bed but I couldn't fathom sleeping outside. My 7gal water jug froze that night. I didn't have wool base layers but plan too so that will help. I also plan to have a floorless shelter.

Thanks!

 

[AXEL]

53+ years of using many bags from 80ish* down to -41. I find my full custom, original Integral Designs -30 rated bag, (an original one, not this RAB Chinese crap), much too warm until 0*F.

So, given your situation, I would go to the WM Puma and that should do what you need with only a few oz. more weight. I ALWAYS want a 10* colder bag than the average conditions call for. I run a WM Terralite, Sequoia and four highend PL bags, two IDs, a Wild Things half bag and a Wallcreeper and there are uses for all of these in BC, AB and Canada's north.

HTH, sounds like your old bag is due for duty as a "bone digger" bed, my Rottweilers love thisS!

 

[jray5740]

FWIW......I have been in the situation you are describing above, and I would not dream of taking a -10 non-synthetic down bag on a hunting trip in October if I wasnt sleeping on a cot in a heated tent. What Im saying, again FWIW.....is Western Mountaineering bags are great but your gonna to need at least a -30 to be comfortable in a tent on the ground backpacking in October. To get a bag worthy of your intended plans will cost you min $1000, but at least you will have it for future hunts. I suggest synthetic down for its water resistant properties as well because condensation at these temps is high and will make you cold fast. Just my .02

 

[jonnycoder]

I was looking at the Puma as well, it's only a little bit bigger packed down. I've never owned a down bag before, only synthetic. My down comforter at home works extremely well for me.

What about having a bivy (along with floorless shelter) in case of forecast for bad weather? Is that common to carry?

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

but your gonna to need at least a -30 to be comfortable in a tent on the ground backpacking in October.

Are you talking just him since he sleeps really cold or in general? I'd say no if in general. I slept multiple nights in a tent this Oct at 11k, some mornings 10F. A WM 10F bag on a good sleeping pad (xtherm) was just fine for warmth at night and with those temps I didn't need to augment with my puffy layers which would likely cover down to maybe -10F. That said if the forecast is calling for a bunch of subzero temps I'd definitely be reviewing whether I want to be out there. That cold is a PITA to deal with, sleeping is one thing but keeping water thawed, frozen boots, etc. are another. I absolutely wouldn't plan to be out in stuff like that without a woodstove along to thaw out the aforementioned items and make getting out of my sleeping bag not a mountain climb in the willpower department.

 

[jray5740]

For whatever reason I misread the “10-20” degrees as -10. At any rate I still think your going to want more than the -10 bag......at least I would and I tend to sleep hot. I like the have it and not need it approach to outdoor living, but that is a personal preference. Either way last week I spent on the mountain and got a touch cold in my -15 bag when temps dropped to that 10 degree range. All in all being cold is better than being at work so have fun!

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

What -15F bag do you have? Some manufacturers are "optimistic" in their ratings so that definitely should be a factor in rating selection. I also was in the mountains the last couple weeks in that 10F stuff as noted, my WM 10F did just fine (they are known to be on point or conservative in ratings unless you are a cold sleeper), my buddy was using a -15F mountain hardware bag which he had to leave vented. If you sleep hot its surprising you were getting chilled in a -15F bag. What sleeping pad do you use? That can make a big difference as well.

 

[Owenst7]

I would suggest measuring the inches of loft that the bag your previously were cold in has, and compare that to Western Mountaineering's specs.

My Antelope has slightly more loft than the "-30F" bag I used for hunting interior Alaska in the winter (even dealt with -40 once).

I have never seen a synthetic bag that will maintain loft indefinitely like a down bag. For that reason, I do not see the purpose in paying large amounts of money for a synthetic bag. They will lose some significant percent of their loft in the first 5 years, and therefore not be as warm. My 20+ year old down bags are just as lofty as new after I wash them once every year or two.

I don't comprehend the idea that down is less safe at extremely cold temperatures. I grew up hunting in coastal and interior Alaska...where it's super wet, and super cold in the winter. I can see using synthetic insulation when the temperatures are above ~15F or so. Once you get close to 0F, it's so cold that it's extremely dry and things like down are very easy to keep aired out. Even condensation in a tarp shelter stays frozen well at those temperatures, and it only gets easier as it gets colder.

I've yet to hear of a more conservatively rated line of sleeping bags than WM. I'm comfortable trusting any of there bags to be comfortable right down to the temp they're rated for, assuming I'm using a proper pad and am well-fed, etc.

 

[dplantz]

I don't know Western Mountaineering particularly, but they seem as well made as any. Personally I'd run a 20 degree bag (as long as it's comfort rated 30 or better) in those conditions, with mid weight wool base layers (hoody for the top half), wool socks, and nothing else. Mind you that's assuming a properly rated sleeping pad. No bag will keep the cold from coming in the bottom. The temp ratings are really just referring to cold coming in from the top and sides.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[AXEL]

I would suggest measuring the inches of loft that the bag your previously were cold in has, and compare that to Western Mountaineering's specs.

My Antelope has slightly more loft than the "-30F" bag I used for hunting interior Alaska in the winter (even dealt with -40 once).

I have never seen a synthetic bag that will maintain loft indefinitely like a down bag. For that reason, I do not see the purpose in paying large amounts of money for a synthetic bag. They will lose some significant percent of their loft in the first 5 years, and therefore not be as warm. My 20+ year old down bags are just as lofty as new after I wash them once every year or two.

I don't comprehend the idea that down is less safe at extremely cold temperatures. I grew up hunting in coastal and interior Alaska...where it's super wet, and super cold in the winter. I can see using synthetic insulation when the temperatures are above ~15F or so. Once you get close to 0F, it's so cold that it's extremely dry and things like down are very easy to keep aired out. Even condensation in a tarp shelter stays frozen well at those temperatures, and it only gets easier as it gets colder.

I've yet to hear of a more conservatively rated line of sleeping bags than WM. I'm comfortable trusting any of there bags to be comfortable right down to the temp they're rated for, assuming I'm using a proper pad and am well-fed, etc.

This is 110% correct and my experiences in BC, have taught me exactly the same conclusions. I much prefer a GOOD down bag, the current best are WM and Valandre, FF is next and then Marmot. I have used them for weeks on end in cold, wet conditions and have been comfy.

I do carry a PL bag as a "broken ankle" saviour sack with a bivy and tiny tarp, but, always now use down for actual camping.

 

[jonnycoder]

All great advice especially since I wont be hunting in anything less than 10 degrees.
I'm thinking a 0degree Kodiak or Lynx may be good along with a well insulated pad and proper wool base layers.
Do most of you guys use a bivy even with a shelter?

 

[Rokwiia]

If the OP is driving into a base camp and sleeping there and will not be backpacking in to a remote location, then you can bring more than you might need. In that case, I would always have a second bag (or quilt) on top of the sleeping bag.

If you in is 0-10F temperature, moisture from your perspiration will move through the fill to the outer layer of the bag at which point it could freeze. That could be a disaster. I always have a second layer (bag or quilt) on top of the sleeping bag so any freezing occurs on the top layer and not the main sleeping bag.

 

[Owenst7]

All great advice especially since I wont be hunting in anything less than 10 degrees.
I'm thinking a 0degree Kodiak or Lynx may be good along with a well insulated pad and proper wool base layers.
Do most of you guys use a bivy even with a shelter?

I'd put an Antelope on that list if you never really intend to be colder than 10F. 7" of loft (mine actually has 8 in most areas after it's freshly washed) is more than most 0F bags are built with. I was on an R 1.3 pad (uninsulated klymit) and still sweating recently at about 20F.

I'm on the fence with bivy bags. My bags are goretex, reducing their necessity in a tarp. I've always felt that bivys trap perspiration against the bag. The trip I just returned from, I slept bivyless next to a guy with a non-goretex bag, and he used a bivy to keep condensation off his bag. The third morning, the shell of his bag was completely soaked (his down had not yet started to get wet, might I add. It's not THAT easy to do). I believe my bags (had lent one to a friend who was also in there) were allowing perspiration to escape more readily. I believe that had he left the bivy off, his bag would have been drier because it was cold enough that the condensation was staying frozen.

On the other hand, if it had been warmer by a few degrees, that bivy would have probably kept him drier. Either way, I hung all our bags out in the breeze as soon as I got out of bed, and they were all dry within 30 minutes.

If this had been ~35° and raining continuously, as I lived with in Alaska, I would not have brought a 7" thick bag. I would have run a bag with less insulation so that my body heat would keep the outside surface warm enough to evaporate. I also wouldn't have stuffed 3 guys in to a 2 person tarp haha. In those conditions, if I felt there were any chance of water getting in my shelter, I'd probably have used a bivy too.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

To date I've just slept on a piece of tyvek w/o a bivy. I've though about maybe getting/making a basic bivy with DWR breathable top fabric but haven't to date. For extended cold nights though I have decided a stove should be a very high consideration for morale for me (thawed boots, not having to sleep on water to keep it thawed, etc.) which would help dry a bag shell off if ever needed. Me and partner are fairly gun ho and embrace the suck but the above things put a damper on us that we noted and figured it wasn't worth not carrying the 3lb stove in to avoid.

 

[Shrek]

A Western Mountaineering bag is good to the rated temp with an insulated pad. A wood stove in the floorless shelter does wonders for attitude and all the little things like frozen water and boots. As the day goes on hunting in cold I find my mind wandering to getting back to my stove and firing it up. I got a little carried away this week with my WiFi and ended up with the door of my Sawtooth wide open. We had gone to get water and my hands got soaked and frozen. Ten minutes after lightning the stove I didn’t have a cold appendage anywhere. I can’t recommend more highly Western Mountaineering and wood stoves !

 

[jonnycoder]

Great comments regarding a stove. I'm sold now after watching videos of how they setup and work.

I did notice a Biolite camp stove which looks good for boiling water. Too bad you can't use a vent tube with Biolite to heat the tent after eating. How good are the titanium stoves for boiling water from conduction?

 

[Shrek]

I boil pretty much all my water on the WiFi. I’m using the pot with fins that came with my Primus ETA kit and it works fine. I don’t know how much better a flat bottom pot with direct contact with the wood stove would work but it doesn’t matter to me since the one with the fins works fine. I’m burning the stove for warmth too so I’m not in a terrible hurry to get it boiled to save gas. With my large WiFi I need to be careful not to put the handles over the stove or they get hot too. I’ve semi melted the insulation on mine last week.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

A couple stove considerations: Make sure you have enough space so sleeping bags or you aren't too close, thin synthetic materials quickly disappear when they brush against a hot Ti stove pipe/body. Make sure you have a damper somewhere on the stove (I like using the door one on my liteoutdoor model). Once its going if you feed it too much air it'll chase you out of the tent, they can throw a lot of heat. Once there is a good coal base going you can throttle them back to a nice warmth.

 

[hunter1181]

I just spent 8 days in the Idaho Backcountry around Cascade where the temps dropped to 5°. I tend to sleep cold and I stayed plenty warm in a Redcliff utilizing a Marmot Lithium 0° bag and an Exped winterlite pad. My guess is you should be fine.

 

[odin0226]

I used a WM badger this year in the frank :OCT 17-27. Big snow hit early, temps were in the teens at night and I was toasty warm. That's a 15 degree bag, and it delivered as advertised