I’m curious as to what everyone’s thoughts are on this. If you haven’t heard about it google it. Basically you pay $900 to be shown the ropes so you can be fully prepared for “western hunting”. Personally I think it’s a scam. Nothing makes up for hard work. I’m where all the proceeds are going... it’s kind of sad to see what hunting has started to become.
Western Hunting Summit...what’s everyone’s thoughts?
- Thread starter ewade07
- Start date
elkduds
WKR
When someone with experience meets someone with money: the one with experience gets the money, and the one with money gets experience.
Jacob_Outdoors
WKR
There seem to be a few of these “camps” popping up lately. Seminars, working out, nutrition, weapon tuning, scouting, calling, etc.
If someone has the knowledge to put on a camp like this and people feel the value is there to make it worth their money, who am I to say it’s wrong? I think it could be beneficial to cut the learning curve and provide a solid foundation to people looking to begin hunting or strengthen their hunting knowledge.
Remember, the more people we have hunting the greater the odds go up of people fighting for it. I realize we don’t want everyone hunting, but if people are motivated enough to pay that kind of money and put in that effort the hope would be it’s the kind of people to benefit hunting.
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If someone has the knowledge to put on a camp like this and people feel the value is there to make it worth their money, who am I to say it’s wrong? I think it could be beneficial to cut the learning curve and provide a solid foundation to people looking to begin hunting or strengthen their hunting knowledge.
Remember, the more people we have hunting the greater the odds go up of people fighting for it. I realize we don’t want everyone hunting, but if people are motivated enough to pay that kind of money and put in that effort the hope would be it’s the kind of people to benefit hunting.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Downeaster
WKR
My immediate response is hackles up...but like Jacob said, who am i to judge. If some folks dont have the time to put in but do have the money to spend, I guess it's a win-win for all concerned parties.
Akwoodchuck
WKR
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2018
- Messages
- 613
I like that!
...one thing I always say, "there's a lot more money than there is talent..."
For a working stiff who can't break away from work or the family easily, I can see this having value. There are a lot of folks that can't devote the time to learning the ropes or don't have that kind of access.
How is this truly different from a guided hunt? You're paying for someones time, knowledge and experience in either case.
Jeremy
How is this truly different from a guided hunt? You're paying for someones time, knowledge and experience in either case.
Jeremy
jspradley
WKR
Lots of folks spend way more money on things that are way less useful...
Ryan Lampers seems like a legit dude so while it might not be useful for everyone I'd hardly call it a scam
Ryan Lampers seems like a legit dude so while it might not be useful for everyone I'd hardly call it a scam
My thoughts are this. I understand that some people are willing to spend money for this type of info. However, all these folks giving the seminar (or whatever) undoubtedly received hunting mentorship from someone, or some people, for nothing. Having people then pay just grinds me a little. I'm not saying tell everyone everything, but I'm not sure I like this method either.
If I'm going on a guided hunt I'm paying for the area I'm hunting tbh.
I guess it's all how you look at it. Lots of hunters throw a lot of money away every year in countless directions & have little to show for it. To be able to absorb even a little bit as is being offered really is a good thing! The price may seem high to some especially if you are already well established in your hunting style & have reasonable success.
There are so many newer hunters out there that do not enjoy the luxury of success & do not live in decent elk country & want to know how can they better themselves & have a greater understanding of the animals they seek to pursue . Events as this can really help cut the learning curve by many years. In this day & age with hunters having kids in sports & families to tend to we don't have the time we used to 20-25 years ago, things have changed!
Anyone who's been in the woods for years knows nothing beats boots on the ground for real world experience, with that said, being able to absorb any & all knowledge that guys are offering to share can & will certainly add to their enjoyment to their next hunt. It will give them confidence that they may not have had prior to such an event.
I had no mentor nor did I come from a hunting family, I was purely trial & error from the start. Because of this I'm more than happy to freely share anything that I can. I'm one of the seminar speakers at this event, I'm not making a dime, my time is being donated for the love of elk hunting & wanting to help others all I can! If I can help reduce some of the struggles newer hunters face then it's time well spent. I look forward to being there!
ElkNut/Paul
There are so many newer hunters out there that do not enjoy the luxury of success & do not live in decent elk country & want to know how can they better themselves & have a greater understanding of the animals they seek to pursue . Events as this can really help cut the learning curve by many years. In this day & age with hunters having kids in sports & families to tend to we don't have the time we used to 20-25 years ago, things have changed!
Anyone who's been in the woods for years knows nothing beats boots on the ground for real world experience, with that said, being able to absorb any & all knowledge that guys are offering to share can & will certainly add to their enjoyment to their next hunt. It will give them confidence that they may not have had prior to such an event.
I had no mentor nor did I come from a hunting family, I was purely trial & error from the start. Because of this I'm more than happy to freely share anything that I can. I'm one of the seminar speakers at this event, I'm not making a dime, my time is being donated for the love of elk hunting & wanting to help others all I can! If I can help reduce some of the struggles newer hunters face then it's time well spent. I look forward to being there!
ElkNut/Paul
MtGomer
WKR
There’s only so much you can learn without just doing it.
You can’t learn when the bull you’re tracking is getting ready to bed, without tracking some bulls and paying attention to what the track is doing and what kind of terrain it’s in.
You can’t learn if that elks body language says it’s about to leave or sticking around without having some elk encounters.
You can’t know what it’s like to pack one out of a hell hole and how to properly balance your backpack until you’ve done it.
For someone with the money to spend the seminar could be good to learn some fundamentals but the good stuff can only be learned through time actually out there in the field. That said, If you’re out there with someone that already knows a lot of that and can point things out, you might catch on the 2nd time instead of the 7th.
You can’t learn when the bull you’re tracking is getting ready to bed, without tracking some bulls and paying attention to what the track is doing and what kind of terrain it’s in.
You can’t learn if that elks body language says it’s about to leave or sticking around without having some elk encounters.
You can’t know what it’s like to pack one out of a hell hole and how to properly balance your backpack until you’ve done it.
For someone with the money to spend the seminar could be good to learn some fundamentals but the good stuff can only be learned through time actually out there in the field. That said, If you’re out there with someone that already knows a lot of that and can point things out, you might catch on the 2nd time instead of the 7th.
"You can’t learn if that elks body language says it’s about to leave or sticking around without having some elk encounters.
You can’t know what it’s like to pack one out of a hell hole and how to properly balance your backpack until you’ve done it."
This is not true, this is exactly the things being discussed. I'm speaking in behalf of elk hunting since this is my passion. Watching Body Language & understanding Elk Behavior is a huge part of successful elk hunting especially for us bowhunters! I think you would be very surprised at the info that will be shared to cut down on the learning curve!
A perfect example of Body Language took place this last elk season. I was with a 1st time elk hunter, he'd never hunted elk never seen an elk nor ever heard an elk bugle in his 48 years! I discussed with him previous to the hunt about reading an elk's body language in case it came into play as well as good setups. We discussed many things, one was what to expect if a bull is coming in to my calling & he gets to the point he either sees something he doesn't like or doesn't see something he feels should be there. I explained to him exactly what to look for & how the bull would react if that happened. -- A bull came in to 25 yards & knew something wasn't right, he showed the signs of leaving as I had explained to him, I also mentioned he most likely would go back the way he came as it was a secure place for him. This 1st time hunter read the bull perfectly & executed the shot at just the right time.
If any here have seen the Fulldrawfilmtour this year you will see & hear this new hunter mention to me in our hunt that the bull did exactly what I had discussed with him which helped him prepare for what was going to happen & make the shot! -- So yes sir, you bet we discuss many things that can help notch a tag. Yes, boots on the ground is essential in ones growth but a lot can be shared to prepare ones for things that can happen before they do!
ElkNut/Paul
You can’t know what it’s like to pack one out of a hell hole and how to properly balance your backpack until you’ve done it."
This is not true, this is exactly the things being discussed. I'm speaking in behalf of elk hunting since this is my passion. Watching Body Language & understanding Elk Behavior is a huge part of successful elk hunting especially for us bowhunters! I think you would be very surprised at the info that will be shared to cut down on the learning curve!
A perfect example of Body Language took place this last elk season. I was with a 1st time elk hunter, he'd never hunted elk never seen an elk nor ever heard an elk bugle in his 48 years! I discussed with him previous to the hunt about reading an elk's body language in case it came into play as well as good setups. We discussed many things, one was what to expect if a bull is coming in to my calling & he gets to the point he either sees something he doesn't like or doesn't see something he feels should be there. I explained to him exactly what to look for & how the bull would react if that happened. -- A bull came in to 25 yards & knew something wasn't right, he showed the signs of leaving as I had explained to him, I also mentioned he most likely would go back the way he came as it was a secure place for him. This 1st time hunter read the bull perfectly & executed the shot at just the right time.
If any here have seen the Fulldrawfilmtour this year you will see & hear this new hunter mention to me in our hunt that the bull did exactly what I had discussed with him which helped him prepare for what was going to happen & make the shot! -- So yes sir, you bet we discuss many things that can help notch a tag. Yes, boots on the ground is essential in ones growth but a lot can be shared to prepare ones for things that can happen before they do!
ElkNut/Paul
Glad I had a dad who took me hunting....some don't. For all of those on here calling 'scam' or 'demeaning comments' for stiffs and such for paying for this.....please post when you are hosting a 'free hunting backcountry seminar' to teach the same concepts to those who never had someone to take them hunting. Quit being part of the problem and become a solution. My hats off to those who are teaching and those who want to learn and spend hard earned money for it...….
- Banned
- #16
I see it a couple ways, I agree that these kinds of things can shorten the learning curve and are beneficial. I mean, if you have nobody to lend you a hand, where do you turn for the basics? A new hunter asks a question about a unit on this board, and everyone busts their balls. A reply by someone about a huge geographic area, not even unit specific, will be met with the same ball busting.
Plus, some of the advice I see given on hunting boards, is far from stellar. Gear, rifles, bullets, backpacks, boots, clothing, etc. etc. advice by people that haven't hunted much is pretty apparent when you see it. It also gets ridiculous when I see recommendations on the most expensive equipment out there being "a must". That isn't true either.
Point being there is a lot of BS to sort through for a new/inexperienced hunter and things like this are good for that.
That being said, I also think you hit on something that is also a problem and the downside to these type of seminars, IMO. That is the part about hunters having kids sports and families to deal with. People didn't have kids, kids sports, and families to tend to 20-25 years ago? Yeah right, they sure did. I think many people are trying way too hard to "buy" success as well and I don't agree with that either. They seem to find time to take their kids all over for sports, take the old lady on vacation, but then want to buy their way to an elk, rather than take the TIME to do it right. Most of the best elk hunters I know, learned through the school of hard knocks, trial and error, and spending a mountain of time hunting elk each year. They sacrificed time away from their families, sacrificed in other places, and made a commitment to elk hunting rather than trying to buy their way to success. I think too many people are trying to do it all, rather than picking priorities.
I would argue that the most successful elk hunters are not those with the fanciest equipment, not those that attend the most seminars, not those that are in the best physical shape, or otherwise try to buy their way to a shortcut. The guys that truly make the commitment of TIME and are constantly learning what's going on around them while spending time in the woods, yeah, those guys get it done every year. IMO/E if you never learn the importance of time spent actually hunting elk...you'll never be much of an elk hunter. The one constant I've found, in any endeavor, trying to take short-cuts never works as well as spending the TIME to do it right.
I'm pretty much a neutral on seminars like this, they're great for the new/beginner type hunters, but its not going to help much if you think its a substitute for spent hours.
Jimmy
WKR
I think it's a really cool thing for people that may be looking to shorten the learning curve. Now, if it was being put on by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about then that would be a little weird. But those guys are legit.
That's money put straight towards learning how to hunt better. Lots of guys spend huge amounts of money on gear would be better off going to this class instead of buying yet another $400 jacket.
That's money put straight towards learning how to hunt better. Lots of guys spend huge amounts of money on gear would be better off going to this class instead of buying yet another $400 jacket.
I do every fall, it's called I bring people elk hunting.
Seems to be something that is a value of scale, in that the less experienced you are the greater value it would be. I think for some a 900 bill for that information is cheap. If the seminar is soild it can with the cost 10x over time and lost income.
For people that already spent the time already I dont see the value even though it's short money.
For people that already spent the time already I dont see the value even though it's short money.
Desk Jockey
WKR
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2015
- Messages
- 6,001
No specific knowledge of the program mentioned, but I am on the other side of the coin on this one. Assuming the program has integrity, I see value in it.
As a primarily adult onset hunter that is still coming up the curve on hunting and western hunting in particular, there is a lot to learn. I feel somewhat advantaged by an extensive shooting and backpacking background along with some .mil experience and a bit of hunting back in the day. I read books and magazines, watch TV and videos, joined ELK101 and do piles of interneting to learn what I can. I can tell you, it ain't easy.
Over the years, I have taken classes on tactical shooting, wing shooting, animal tracking, mountain biking, rock climbing, paddle boarding, running, crossfit, martial arts, woodworking, cooking and god only knows what else in pursuit of recreation.
I understand that people are suspect of the value of the content in these classes, and with due cause. Some schools, no matter what their focus, are just sham shops that take peoples' money and offer little in return. However, I think there is a stigma against this type of deliberate approach to learning hunting that I don't quite understand. I think it has to do with the tradition of patrilineal transmission of hunting knowledge from father to son over generations that we seem to hold up as the ideal. However, that path isn't available to all of us, myself included, so some of us must seek alternative entry points and was to accumulate knowledge. If it brings in more hunters and as long as they are responsible and good contributors to the community, then I am all for it.
When i talk to people who are not (yet) hunters who have an interest in trying it, they seem to all report a sense of intimidation by the amount and breadth of knowledge one needs just to try hunting. Taking novices hunting is a great thing and something I do as often as I can. however, if that source of new hunters can be supplemented from other, responsible sources, then that is a good thing in my book.
As a primarily adult onset hunter that is still coming up the curve on hunting and western hunting in particular, there is a lot to learn. I feel somewhat advantaged by an extensive shooting and backpacking background along with some .mil experience and a bit of hunting back in the day. I read books and magazines, watch TV and videos, joined ELK101 and do piles of interneting to learn what I can. I can tell you, it ain't easy.
Over the years, I have taken classes on tactical shooting, wing shooting, animal tracking, mountain biking, rock climbing, paddle boarding, running, crossfit, martial arts, woodworking, cooking and god only knows what else in pursuit of recreation.
I understand that people are suspect of the value of the content in these classes, and with due cause. Some schools, no matter what their focus, are just sham shops that take peoples' money and offer little in return. However, I think there is a stigma against this type of deliberate approach to learning hunting that I don't quite understand. I think it has to do with the tradition of patrilineal transmission of hunting knowledge from father to son over generations that we seem to hold up as the ideal. However, that path isn't available to all of us, myself included, so some of us must seek alternative entry points and was to accumulate knowledge. If it brings in more hunters and as long as they are responsible and good contributors to the community, then I am all for it.
When i talk to people who are not (yet) hunters who have an interest in trying it, they seem to all report a sense of intimidation by the amount and breadth of knowledge one needs just to try hunting. Taking novices hunting is a great thing and something I do as often as I can. however, if that source of new hunters can be supplemented from other, responsible sources, then that is a good thing in my book.
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