Waterfowl Hunters!

[Mike76]

Gentleman! Local, West Coast Central and Eastern Shore Waterfowlers.
How many of us Waterfowlers out there are concerned, That if we as a waterfowl group do not come together as a whole that we will soon loose our right to shout Sprig (Pin Tail).
I'm looking back as a young kid of 12 and in the pockets of my GrandFather learning all there was about Hunting and shooting Ducks.
The Limits were broad as we could shoot 7 Mallard, 7 Widgeon, 7 Teal, 7 Sprig, 4 redheads, 4 Canvas backs here on the West Coast with some of the other flyways down to a point count process.
I really think that if we see that the counts are way down then of coarse things need to take place to help get our populations back to a healthy number. I agree, as I believe most do, that this is the only logical thing to do by bringing back out populations for a more liberal number to hunt after decreasing bag limits when the forecasts are that numbers are down..
The one thing I do not agree with Dept of Wildlife is that if/when a flyway is having issues that all the flyways are restricted.
Lets take the Sprig (Pin Tail) Here on the Pacific fly way, again! as a young kid the limits were very liberal and we could shoot 7 Sprig of the 7 they could be 7 Bulls (Males) or 7 Hens. That limit started with cutting back on our hens which Even as a young guy that these were our layers that maintained our numbers so i didn't have any issues with that at all. They were, The DFW indicating our numbers were holding steady and all was looking good. The next thing out of the Bag was the Mallard, cutting back also on the Hens from the bag limit, Again That's cool.
As the seasons went on we started seeing Bag limits cut more and more with our Sprig from 7 Bulls, 7 Hens, to 1 sprig period.
I got on the band wagon and could not figure out why such drastic cuts when what we are seeing here on the west coast of Oregon, Not dwindling numbers but huge increases in those numbers. Moving to Oregon when I got out of the Military in 1970 the numbers where great and we regularly shot our limits of Sprig.
In today's world we are not seeing less Sprig, Quite the opposite. The Numbers are fantastic that being whether your hunting over decoys and have 10 flocks of Sprig to every 1 of another species, or Sculling as I do quite a bit and see huge flocks of Sprig I wonder where the declines are.
Checking with the DFW at the State capital to local agencies I hear that with the Mississippi and other flyways being down on numbers we also must be having issues. I have to just shake my head let out what I think ( which at times might not be the best thing to do) then move on..
Over the Years I have seen this with many species from Fowl, Fish, Elk, Deer, That once they TAKE AWAY! we never seem to get it ever back again with whatever promise you might of heard.
This is very Sad for the American Sportsman, Not only because they continue to raise our License, Tags, Stamps, Punch Cards what ever and Give nothing Back. We Donate to Ducks Unlimited, Elk, Deer foundations and you all can answer me back of what they give back to the American Sportsman?
If we do not stick together and write our legislators, DFW,, Congressman, we will see what most of us love gone to the wayside.
I mean this wholeheartedly. This world is slowly getting flushed down the toilet bowl and we sportsman do have a word.
When were sitting home by the fire and our seasons come to an end its time to jump on the computer, the phone whatever and let your words be heard. It once again is sticking together before its all gone.
I know club Hunters, The regular Guy like myself whom hunts outside clubs, a Sculler, and other Scullers, and everyone is talking. So what say you all? I don't mind the Hen Take away in most instances But its coming to 1 of everything and when it happens we will never see it come back. Hunter73 Thank You Gentleman, For letting me speak my piece!!!!

 

[NoWiser]

Yeah, that's exactly what we need....Joe Blow duck hunter and the legislators deciding what ducks you can shoot instead of the biologists. No thanks.

 

[Mike76]

No Wiser, I just hope this gets out to our readers as they alone are the only sportsmen whom have a word for change.. Thank You Sir

 

[Mike76]

No Wiser: I guess I read it all wrong!! You did say Joe Blow Duck Hunter? Also Legislature? Well If I read this wrong By writing back of what I said. It is the Joe Blow Duck Hunter as You put it that can Make the decisions along with the Legislators of your State. The Bios are the ones whom sit on there Butts and do nothing. You ant to know why? Because they are afraid to speak up. Why? Job Security.. I have actually been told exactly that!!! Sorry your not a Joe Blow Duck Hunter. Wrong thing to say on here..

 

[KurtR]

Central fly way here and we have seen a huge increase in pintails but i remember when you didnt see many so i have no problem with only shooting 1. If we dont get any snow from here up to canada that will be a big factor in production and with crp dwindling that will be a big concern. We get to shoot six ducks and i am plenty happy with that.

 

[NoWiser]

No Wiser: I guess I read it all wrong!! You did say Joe Blow Duck Hunter? Also Legislature? Well If I read this wrong By writing back of what I said. It is the Joe Blow Duck Hunter as You put it that can Make the decisions along with the Legislators of your State. The Bios are the ones whom sit on there Butts and do nothing. You ant to know why? Because they are afraid to speak up. Why? Job Security.. I have actually been told exactly that!!! Sorry your not a Joe Blow Duck Hunter. Wrong thing to say on here..

My point is that lawmakers are the last people you want making wildlife management decisions. Before you start calling them, think long and hard about the consequences of giving them more power to make hunting-related decisions.

 

[Mike76]

No Wiser.. Here, West Coast, We are bound by a federal Water Fowl commision agency as is most states. these regulations are presented to each state and there are some changes that can be made> But not migratory bird limits. Dates can change but most bide by the commision as it is a Federal Agency adopting these regs. I agree with you. In which that I too hate the Federal agencies telling anyone what, how, and why, we should do things.. Believe that! I wish our States had full reign on the on those decisions. BUT! they do not.. Sad Yes. So As a sportsman And hunting for well over 60 years I believe if the dept of wildlife would actually get off there a__ _ and quit worrying about there jobs and speak up, things could get done. Job Security is what they worry about most. I personally know a BIO.
they can recommend but in most cases it is as far as it goes nowhere.. This the only reason I indicate by pressure to those agencies just maybe we will be heard..
Thank You Wise! Sorry for the disagreement.. Hunter73

 

[Mike76]

Central fly way here and we have seen a huge increase in pintails but i remember when you didnt see many so i have no problem with only shooting 1. If we dont get any snow from here up to canada that will be a big factor in production and with crp dwindling that will be a big concern. We get to shoot six ducks and i am plenty happy with that.

Hi There Curt Yes as I have heard that the Central Flyway has been quite depressed on the Sprig Population and sad to say.. We here on the other hand have more sprig then just about any species accept Widgeon. What we are told is that because of that central flyway so depressed we here are under the same guide lines. As a sportsman I think we should all abide by the laws of each state. But I dont think each flyway should suffer because another is having issues. If we were having those issues the central is then we should be under the one bird limit. But not every other flyway. Make sense? We are also happy with a 7 bird limit with also 1 sprig which here the duck hunters are in agreement that we should not suffer because someone else is having problems we are not.. Thank You for you reply Good hunting to you hunter73

 

[KurtR]

Hi There Curt Yes as I have heard that the Central Flyway has been quite depressed on the Sprig Population and sad to say.. We here on the other hand have more sprig then just about any species accept Widgeon. What we are told is that because of that central flyway so depressed we here are under the same guide lines. As a sportsman I think we should all abide by the laws of each state. But I dont think each flyway should suffer because another is having issues. If we were having those issues the central is then we should be under the one bird limit. But not every other flyway. Make sense? We are also happy with a 7 bird limit with also 1 sprig which here the duck hunters are in agreement that we should not suffer because someone else is having problems we are not.. Thank You for you reply Good hunting to you hunter73

I agree each flyway should be managed on its own accord.

 

[COOPDUCK]

I live in western WA and the 1 pintail limit is a little hard to understand here. Pintails are very easily one of the most numerous species we encounter in the field. Not quite as much as mallards, but probably about as often as widgeon, perhaps even more so some days. Unless the abundance of pintails in the pacific flyway is going to spill over and positively effect populations in the other flyways, the harvest could definitely be increased over here.

 

[Mike76]

CoopDuck
Yes this exactly what we are seeing here in Oregon. The Sprig are getting by far to be the most prominent waterfowl.
I took a little Trip to Northern Calif to do a little Brant hunting on the Humboldt Bay South of Eureka CA.
The Hunters there I had the opportunity to chat with are seeing the same.
We too have great numbers of Mallard, But! What you said, is exactly what we are all saying here on the Pacific North West.
The Mississippi Fly ways are seeing low numbers and are having some problems. Good Money spent would be to enhance those flyways back to normal populations. This has or seems to be part of the problems.
If the revenue was put back into good use on those flyways in what ever fashion needed to help get positive numbers back, is exactly what those DFW should be doing.
Instead I believe funds raised by the sportsman for the sportsman and those species should be used exactly for that.
In a lot of cases these funds go into a general fund that can be spent on what ever the Department thinks it should be spent on. Even with all the Federal Subsidies the biggest picture is not getting any better.
Then again as one gentleman indicated in so many words if the federal government steps in it becomes a cluster in so many words.. I have to agree with him. But this is the Problem someone or group that indicates for the states and how they should be implemented and we have to abide by it.
I can abide by and have too any law. But! Here we have laws that a group that sometimes I wonder if they actually get out, Travel, Do what needs to be done to see exactly whats is happening with our Waterfowl,Fish and Game. In Many cases, I think Not! I like many of us sportsman have been doing this for a long time well over 60 yrs. The changes are astronomical! For the Good? Personally I think Not. This is only my opinion, But the opinion of many I have spoken too most being older Gentleman, whom as we feel have seen the Best.
So Coop it is us whom need to speak up along with the sportsman to get these issues addressed.
The Bird Numbers should be regulated for each state Not for one state seeing the abundance we see. foristance in our Sprig numbers should be regulated for the Pacific flyway and not what is happening in other flyways. If we had those low numbers then lets fix it but don't put other flyways on the same page that are not seeing the same issues.
We have Bio's here that think the exact same way and do not understand, Why? a federal Conservation agency cant understand this. I asked them to speak up. That went no where, they are simply affraid to speak up due to job security. In to days world I would think anyone whom wants a job can find one and wouldn't have to worry about there jobs. That's another subject within itself..
So I'm hoping we get a few to speak up and just maybe we can get something done..
Thanks Coop Hunter73

 

[Rich M]

We see much less than we used to, here in FL. Used to be one of the main birds i hunted. Havent shot a pinner in about 10 years. Got a hen about 3 years ago.

Hunted down here sux these days. The pins, widgeon, gadwall, teal, and even ringers and scaup numbers are way down. I used to hunt about 80 days a season and been once this year.

We need the state to stop spraying and killing off all the duck food to benefit the bass fishermen.

Anyway, keep preaching and get involved w your local duck hunting organization. Maybe you can make a diff. I did at one point.

There is no way to regulate duck numbers per state, only per breeding an nesting areas. You cant control where the go from there.

 

[dtrkyman]

Are they not managed differently already? I hunted the Mississippi flyway most of my life, mallard limit is 4 no more than two hens, at one time it was a single hen, here in New Mexico the Mallard limit is 5. And is the Pacific not 7 mallards?

The length of seasons is also different , I guess the pintail limit is the same across the board which seems strange I guess. Pintail here are thick on a particular refuge but not many where I actually hunt them.

 

[Mike76]

CoopDuck
Yes this exactly what we are seeing here in Oregon. The Sprig are getting by far to be the most prominent waterfowl.
I took a little Trip to Northern Calif to do a little Brant hunting on the Humboldt Bay South of Eureka CA.
The Hunters there I had the opportunity to chat with are seeing the same.
We too have great numbers of Mallard, But! What you said, is exactly what we are all saying here on the Pacific North West.
The Mississippi Fly ways are seeing low numbers and are having some problems. Good Money spent would be to enhance those flyways back to normal populations. This has or seems to be part of the problems.
If the revenue was put back into good use on those flyways in what ever fashion needed to help get positive numbers back, is exactly what those DFW should be doing.
Instead I believe funds raised by the sportsman for the sportsman and those species should be used exactly for that.
In a lot of cases these funds go into a general fund that can be spent on what ever the Department thinks it should be spent on. Even with all the Federal Subsidies the biggest picture is not getting any better.
Then again as one gentleman indicated in so many words if the federal government steps in it becomes a cluster in so many words.. I have to agree with him. But this is the Problem someone or group that indicates for the states and how they should be implemented and we have to abide by it.
I can abide by and have too any law. But! Here we have laws that a group that sometimes I wonder if they actually get out, Travel, Do what needs to be done to see exactly whats is happening with our Waterfowl,Fish and Game. In Many cases, I think Not! I like many of us sportsman have been doing this for a long time well over 60 yrs. The changes are astronomical! For the Good? Personally I think Not. This is only my opinion, But the opinion of many I have spoken too most being older Gentleman, whom as we feel have seen the Best.
So Coop it is us whom need to speak up along with the sportsman to get these issues addressed.
The Bird Numbers should be regulated for each state Not for one state seeing the abundance we see. foristance in our Sprig numbers should be regulated for the Pacific flyway and not what is happening in other flyways. If we had those low numbers then lets fix it but don't put other flyways on the same page that are not seeing the same issues.
We have Bio's here that think the exact same way and do not understand, Why? a federal Conservation agency cant understand this. I asked them to speak up. That went no where, they are simply affraid to speak up due to job security. In to days world I would think anyone whom wants a job can find one and wouldn't have to worry about there jobs. That's another subject within itself..
So I'm hoping we get a few to speak up and just maybe we can get something done..
Thanks Coop Hunter73

Hey There Rich M
I hear you load and clear.
This is exactly what I'm afraid will eventually happen here!
Our Bird numbers are through the roof with Pintails as one of the most abundant and popular birds.
I guess because they are so popular they think the sportsman will wipe them out.. How Bizarre is that?
When I chat with the Alaska Bios its all about the Breeding grounds. You Have the arctic Fox the is a huge issue, and now they are saying the Bears out of Hibernation with cubs are teaching the cubs how to forage for food and eggs now becoming part of there diets. Then we have the locals harvesting eggs off the nests by the thousands.
All these factors hurt the populations that are low in numbers in those States that are hurting there waterfowl populations. It is so sad to see and hear about the bad things that go on, yet the sportsman still want to hunt, but stepping up and voicing our opinions is only a small part of the sportsmans dedication to do so.
I thought I would see many, many more sportsman like yourself speak out, But as You can see there are so very few. Too Me very surprising!
I'm that old guys whom as I have indicated seen the best and the future for our young sportsman and grandchildren it will come to such a decline as you are seeing that they too will feel the brunt of what we should of done years prior.
Right now we have huge I mean Huge populations of birds. The point being we have a government agency that puts out the laws for the states to abide by on limits. what bird can be shot and how many we can take. Lets again take the Sprig population here on the west coast, Bar non not in any numbers issues as seen in many other flyways. So is it fair that this flyway suffers because of the low numbers in other flyways. I think not!
So the Dollars coming in from all the donations for our flyways should go to the nesting areas in which flood the flyways that are having these issues as I would expect the same to happen if the Pacific flyway was going through the same.
We all stand up for one another and fix the issues where they are at there worst.
Many will agree and many will disagree, But we need to do something. I hate to hear that a person like yourself was once hunting blank numbers of days and now you down to one.
whom reads these issues should see and understand the things that can and do happen.
But many just want to hunt and as long as the Birds are there say nothing about all the issues involved.
I'd love to bring in the political issues of where this country is at, and where its about to go. But I won't!
Our love for the outdoors! Is on its way out also, if we don't do something to help these Bird populations get back to a stable number. Thanks Rich M Hunter 73

 

[Mike76]

Are they not managed differently already? I hunted the Mississippi flyway most of my life, mallard limit is 4 no more than two hens, at one time it was a single hen, here in New Mexico the Mallard limit is 5. And is the Pacific not 7 mallards?

The length of seasons is also different , I guess the pintail limit is the same across the board which seems strange I guess. Pintail here are thick on a particular refuge but not many where I actually hunt them.

Dtrkyman
Yes the limit is 7 Mallard which only 2 may be Hens. 7 Widgeon, 7Teal, 2bluebills, 2 canvasback, 2 red heads, 1 sprig. 25 coots, if u shoot coots. 2 Brant, 4 Canadians, 10 Specs, 20 snows,.
The fly ways from what I understand are managed by a federal conservation agency that puts out the regs for each state to go by. The states have things they can implement but they can not play with limit numbers on specific species. Now number of days hunted are I think don't quote me determined by the states.
Here in Oregon we can hunt ducks until the end of January, Calif South of Oregon there season ends the middle of January so each State determines the Beginning and ending dates But cant open before a certain date and can not go past a certain date. Except for a weekend for Kids hunts, Veteran hunts. or a special hunt. Now we have a late extended goose hunt which is really late. Our Brant season used to be from Nov 1 until February 18th. it is now Nov15 till Dec 15 also regulated by the Federal Conservation Agency.
Our Bios are there supposedly to maintain and understand and know what we need or do not need in each state. They are a State agency that should have the say working within there own jurisdiction.
All the district Bios have an individual Manager they report too. But the Manager goes by what the federal agency says then runs it back to the district Bios. The district Bios can suggest but usually goes no where.
So the States are bound by government conservation agencies, with very little lee way on decisions.
This is how I understand it from our local Bio. Please don't quote me as I don't remember it all, but in my opinion its a joke. Let the States do what they thing best for the State. From what I see and yes there are local Fish and Game officers, Fish and Game Managers at these meetings but they don't have a leg to stand on and in most cases just go along with what the agency suggest.
Like our Sprig numbers are better then when I moved here in 1970. I mean we see more Sprig then what we seen in 1970 and we can only shot 1 simply because another flyway is having issues. Then fix the issues. In most cases I'd love to see what these local agencies do with the allocated dollars for these issues or where the General fund Dollars go and used for.. It would be very interesting to say the least.

Thank You Dtrkyman hunter73















nd

 

[dtrkyman]

I Don't see states ever setting limits of a migratory bird, too many factors.

Maybe some Pintail that breed in central Canada wind up migrating down the west coast? I don't see a big problem with large numbers of pintails but I understand your main point.

I hunted Central Canada a long time ago and pintail were thick! But breeding success fluctuates yearly do to many factors

I do agree with your point on specific regs. for specific species which there are some in place, seems the Pintail thing is possibly off the mark?

I would gladly trade you a Pintail for a Mallard, haha as I never really shoot any here anyway. Which is crazy as i hunt not too far from a place that is littered with them!

 

[Mike76]

dtrkyman
Thanks for the reply.. I love to shoot Mallards don't get me wrong. But! for table fare its really hard to beat a big fat northern Bull Sprig. With My Mallard limit there is always one Bird with that limit and Yes its that Sprig. Thank You Sir Hunter 73

 

[QuackAttack]

Various biologists have explained this on the DU podcast and others.

Pintail, as a continental population, are in bad shape. Their nesting success rates are horrible and getting worse. The tend to not re-nest once the first is destroyed…that’s bad.

The core problem is Ag practices in Canada and predation. Pintails prefer to nest in short grass prairie…that is identical to a harvested Ag field. So, they nest in a harvested field and spring comes….farmer ploughs and plants…nest destroyed.

Predator numbers are at an all time high due to people not trapping.


Pintails are going to be off limits unless something changes.

 

[Mike76]

Various biologists have explained this on the DU podcast and others.

Pintail, as a continental population, are in bad shape. Their nesting success rates are horrible and getting worse. The tend to not re-nest once the first is destroyed…that’s bad.

The core problem is Ag practices in Canada and predation. Pintails prefer to nest in short grass prairie…that is identical to a harvested Ag field. So, they nest in a harvested field and spring comes….farmer ploughs and plants…nest destroyed.

Predator numbers are at an all time high due to people not trapping.


Pintails are going to be off limits unless something changes.

QuackAttack
Thank you sir for your reply.
On the Pacific flyway these issues you speak about are not happening. We have more sprig then we have ever had. Predation is definitely a huge huge issue for all our game Birds. HUGE! The Pacific fly way numbers are up way up and the birds are flourishing well from Alaska to Calif Refuges and south into Mexico.
The Mississippi flyway has been going down hill for some time and yes exactly from what your saying.
My point in all this is why we are not seeing the DU and funds for local. People like myself and you are not fighting hard enough to make sure these populations have a chance to rebound.. The Fish and wildlife are purchasing more and more Property as DU used to and so why cant they take the bull by the horns sorta speak and work with farmers and do more to work with the issues?
These agency's are subsidized and where does this money go??? When it hits the General fund it gets used up for whom knows what. The places it should go is back into the real places the money was allocated for, This is the problem! where does the Money get allocated for? Instead of where those dollars are used and for what. Think about this! It is out of all our pockets oso why should we not know or have a voice where it should go?
DU has done a great job over the decades purchasing property and working with land owners for these exact reasons. But over the last quite a few years your not hearing a lot about the DU. At one time there were DU meetings, Letters, fund raisers, and of coarse the DU Banquets. We here just don't hear much anymore and wonder why?
Your point is very well Taken, But there is no reason that the issues we are chatting about can not be fixed. This is just not an overnite ordeal with the Sprig Population as it has been going on for some time until it has gotten so bad in some flyways that now its going to take a lot of work to see it come back. But if they continue to talk about it about how bad it is we will continue to watch it go away.
Thank You sir and Yes sir what you right is true so let whom ever know the interest you and others have and lets get it done.. Thank you again Hunter 73

 

[QuackAttack]

I believe the view in Pintail biology is that the population is being treated as a continental population, not simply by flyway. Total numbers are in free fall and have been. I hate to say it, but pintail are just I’ll suited to the modern world and there is no way to teach them to differentiate between wheat stubble and prairie grass. It looks the same to them…until a tractor runs a plough over their nest. It’s just their instinct as a long neck duck that wants that exact grass height as they can peek over it and see predators. Unfortunately, that height is Ag stubble.

Nest success rates for pintail is in the single digits…


There is no great fix for that. No Till farming practices combined with edge to edge planting just plain destroys pintails.


I hate it as I love shooting pintails, but I believe the days of hunting them are about over.

They aren’t unique in that regard…our grandfathers likely talked about quail and canvasbacks the same way.

Waterfowl hunting is in bad shape. I grew up in AR, chasing ducks in the timber. I haven’t killed a duck in the woods in years…they are just not there.