Vortex Razor HD LHT 4.5-22x50mm Q&A

[Afhunter1]

Am curious how many Rokslide members actually have removed all of their "questionable reliability" scopes from all of their firearms and have placed orders for "full confidence" scopes to replace them all.

I know that on my side I'd be parting ways with $10K-$30K depending on which scope model(s) I went with for each firearm. That's a tough pill to swallow and I'll unlikely replace all of them with the "full confidence" scopes; a few will be over a period of time. If I miss that Boone & Crockett squirrel or cottontail due to a faulty scope, then I'll just have to suck it up and cry a river.

But for "net new" builds, I will be going the "full confidence" route.

I’m like you, I still have a bunch of leupolds but when I go sit in a deer blind or walk for bushy tails they aren’t much of a problem. If I’m traveling any amount of time to hunt then a proven scope is going with me. I used a SHV on my sheep hunt that turned into a grizz hunt last year. 5 years ago I’d of taken a leupold and prob been ok. I didn’t take any falls or slips that I can remember but now I totally subscribe to what form is putting down. I’ve seen scopes lose zero but form just showed us how easy it is and widespread. My next scopes are all Trijicon or NF.

 

[jfs82]

Am curious how many Rokslide members actually have removed all of their "questionable reliability" scopes from all of their firearms and have placed orders for "full confidence" scopes to replace them all.

I know that on my side I'd be parting ways with $10K-$30K depending on which scope model(s) I went with for each firearm. That's a tough pill to swallow and I'll unlikely replace all of them with the "full confidence" scopes; a few will be over a period of time. If I miss that Boone & Crockett squirrel or cottontail due to a faulty scope, then I'll just have to suck it up and cry a river.

But for "net new" builds, I will be going the "full confidence" route.

I have all SWFA ss 3x9 and trijicon tenmile 3x18 ffp. several vortex have gone down the road. I started this process a while back after every one of vortex losing zero on drives and/or drops and I did some reading and asking of questions from those more knowledgeable than I. No issues since. I also only have 4 rifles though.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I have all SWFA ss 3x9 and trijicon tenmile 3x18 ffp. several vortex have gone down the road. I started this process a while back after every one of vortex losing zero on drives and/or drops and I did some reading and asking of questions from those more knowledgeable than I. No issues since. I also only have 4 rifles though.

That’s awesome that you’ve been able to do that over time.

Was just curious how many members dropped major money replacing their entire scope lineup after Form posted his test results.

 

[Shraggs]

Am curious how many Rokslide members actually have removed all of their "questionable reliability" scopes from all of their firearms and have placed orders for "full confidence" scopes to replace them all.

I know that on my side I'd be parting ways with $10K-$30K depending on which scope model(s) I went with for each firearm. That's a tough pill to swallow and I'll unlikely replace all of them with the "full confidence" scopes; a few will be over a period of time. If I miss that Boone & Crockett squirrel or cottontail due to a faulty scope, then I'll just have to suck it up and cry a river.

But for "net new" builds, I will be going the "full confidence" route.

I’ve sold all my other scopes, or the rifles with the other scopes as I thin my herd to what I need into retirement. My guns that matter have swfa, NF and trijcon.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I’ve sold all my other scopes, or the rifles with the other scopes as I thin my herd to what I need into retirement. My guns that matter have swfa, NF and trijcon.

Cool.

I have a new build coming and it'll have either the ATACR 4-16 or the 4-20. I have an existing rifle that will likely be getting a Trijicon (model TBD).

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

On a related note...

With Vortex raising their prices on the LHT models ($1300-$1500), their current pricing is in the ballpark of the Trijicon Credo/TenMile, NF NSX and approaching NF NX8 (especially demo models).

 

[Shraggs]

Wanted an actar, “settled for shv f1, ha. The reticle was not optimum but very livable.

I trusted Form, And really love all my swfas. The slight glass penalty isn’t noticeable using their great reticle. The shv isn’t ideal but I’ll mitigate the thin reticle up close based on use.

Almost bought tenmile, but the Xmas tree was too big a distraction for me. Definitely more forgiving to get behind than shv.

The credo in ffp mil mil are also great clones of 1-6 swfa for right mid range rig. They are capped… but left them off when hunted and dialed to make kills without problem.

Even armed with some proven entities - I find picking one is an evaluation in trade offs. Eye box, reticle not great up close, capped, no zero stop, and what’s available…

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

I too have ridded myself of all scopes I previously had. Used to be a vortex guy, not obsessed by any means but saw value in pricepoint/features/etc. That is, until I saw real world issues. Didn't actually discover this forum and form's testing until I started seeing issues and decided to look into it a bit deeper. Since then all vortex products have left my household...and for good reason. I ran into multiple zero retention issues and tracking issues. I made compromises where necessary when "upgrading" such as going from variable power to fixed power, $700 msrp to $1700 msrp, etc. I now use swfa 6x, 10x, 16x for various guns, NF 4-14 SHV, and NF NXS 5.5-22x50. The latter being my favorite scope. I know I'm in the minority with preferring 2nd focal plane but that doesn't bother me. I don't mind being the oddball . Doubling my wind holds at half power is not something I lose sleep over...besides I like that reticle being perfect size at 5.5x! It also doesn't hurt my feelings to accept the fact that I fell for the GREAT WARRANTY of vortex...live and learn I guess. Proudly admit that I'm a nightforce fan boy. You might even call me cultish if you will...ok by me. I recognize quality when I see it.

 

[Dobermann]

Am curious how many Rokslide members actually have removed all of their "questionable reliability" scopes from all of their firearms and have placed orders for "full confidence" scopes to replace them all.

Me!

SFP all gone.

Leupold gone. (Thank goodness.)

Burris gone.

Swarovski gone.

Have only run SWFA, Nightforce, Bushnell Elite Tactical, and Trijicon since then. Happy days.

Looking hard at the Minox ZP5 with the THLR reticle for a general-purpose field rifle - just weighing up getting one now with all of the supply chain issues and conflict in Europe vs curiousity about the long-term performance. But knowing the history of the drop-test results to longer-term outcomes, trying to sell whatever is not nailed down to raise the funds fast.

The more I see @THLR's triggercam use of it in action, the more it makes sense ... recently stopped trying to pick apart every part of the reticle when I saw it in videos, asking "What is that?", "How does that work?"

Granted, we now have marked-up diagrams of the THLR reticle from both @Formidilosus and BigJimFish on the Hide - but while watching Thomas's latest video, I just "zoned out" and imagined looking through the reticle, rather than at the reticle.

For anyone who's trained in Japanese martial arts, you might have a sense of what I mean ...

Anyway, in that moment, the reticle seemed to "make sense" on a more intuitive level. And any reticle I've looked through since just seems to be ... crude by comparison.

 

[KHNC]

Apologies if I missed this earlier in this, or another, thread, but there are frequent comments about the number of Vortex scopes that are sent back for repair. I only own one Vortex scope that's only been through about 300 rounds, so it's sorta low mileage (but it has flown in the vibrating belly of an airplane, subject to the "tender touches" of baggage handlers and carried racked, but uncased, on a four-wheeler).

My question is, has anyone seen any actual numbers (from manufacturers) of the number of scopes sold, and the number returned for repair? So that we can see real numbers that Brand X has an annual return-for-warranty-service percentage of xx%, and compare that to Brand Y which has a return percentage of yy%. Specifically re: Vortex, along with, say, Nightforce (have one of those too, and it's not failed either ;~), Leupold, etc.

I don't doubt that there are differences between brands/models, and that those differences could be significant. Just interested to know if there are some "real" vs. speculative or anecdotal numbers.

Thanks.

Im betting the number from Vortex is actually pretty low for actual manufacturer issues. Warranty covers damage regardless of how it happens. Ive used their scopes for years, no issues ,no problems. The people that have issues definitely whine the most. Im still thinking the number isnt that high overall. Still, i just canceled my last scope order and went with ZEISS>

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Me!

SFP all gone.

Leupold gone. (Thank goodness.)

Burris gone.

Swarovski gone.

Have only run SWFA, Nightforce, Bushnell Elite Tactical, and Trijicon since then. Happy days.

Looking hard at the Minox ZP5 with the THLR reticle for a general-purpose field rifle - just weighing up getting one now with all of the supply chain issues and conflict in Europe vs curiousity about the long-term performance. But knowing the history of the drop-test results to longer-term outcomes, trying to sell whatever is not nailed down to raise the funds fast.

The more I see @THLR's triggercam use of it in action, the more it makes sense ... recently stopped trying to pick apart every part of the reticle when I saw it in videos, asking "What is that?", "How does that work?"

Granted, we now have marked-up diagrams of the THLR reticle from both @Formidilosus and BigJimFish on the Hide - but while watching Thomas's latest video, I just "zoned out" and imagined looking through the reticle, rather than at the reticle.

For anyone who's trained in Japanese martial arts, you might have a sense of what I mean ...

Anyway, in that moment, the reticle seemed to "make sense" on a more intuitive level. And any reticle I've looked through since just seems to be ... crude by comparison.

Cool.

 

[roosiebull]

Apologies if I missed this earlier in this, or another, thread, but there are frequent comments about the number of Vortex scopes that are sent back for repair. I only own one Vortex scope that's only been through about 300 rounds, so it's sorta low mileage (but it has flown in the vibrating belly of an airplane, subject to the "tender touches" of baggage handlers and carried racked, but uncased, on a four-wheeler).

My question is, has anyone seen any actual numbers (from manufacturers) of the number of scopes sold, and the number returned for repair? So that we can see real numbers that Brand X has an annual return-for-warranty-service percentage of xx%, and compare that to Brand Y which has a return percentage of yy%. Specifically re: Vortex, along with, say, Nightforce (have one of those too, and it's not failed either ;~), Leupold, etc.

I don't doubt that there are differences between brands/models, and that those differences could be significant. Just interested to know if there are some "real" vs. speculative or anecdotal numbers.

Thanks.

i'm guessing when someone has a shift in zero, most times they will sight it back in and rock on... never even thinking the scope may be unreliable. i know i have done a lot of that in the past not understanding how fragile scopes are in general.... connects a lot of dots for me in the past though.

the scope featured in this thread was sent back to vortex, they gave it a clean bill of health and sent it back just like they sent it in (that's my understanding) so one epical fail was not counted by vortex as a warranty claim.... hard to get valuable numbers in that scenario

 

[PredatorSlayer]

My Guess is this test cost Vortex MANY 1000's in loss of sales. I canceled my backorder and bought a Zeiss V6 Conquest 3-18x50. 22oz and i havent found anything negative out there about it. Same price range as the LHT but SFP. If it gets tested and its a shitbox too, im still keeping it.

No way it passes the drop test. They are fragile.

 

[KHNC]

No way it passes the drop test. They are fragile.

I guess i wont be throwing it around any to see. But that sucks that damn nearly every scope out there sucks. Im not buying a NF . I wont carry around a weapon with a cement block on top of it. And im not going to be fighting a war with it either.

 

[SDHNTR]

I guess i wont be throwing it around any to see. But that sucks that damn nearly every scope out there sucks. Im not buying a NF . I wont carry around a weapon with a cement block on top of it. And im not going to be fighting a war with it either.

I fought the same feeling for the last couple years. I finally caved and bought several cement blocks to mount atop my rifles. I sleep better now. It absolutely sucks that no one (other than SWFA, but never in stock and FFP only) can make a reliable scope without it weighing two pounds. I wish someone would figure out titanium in a riflescope. Scope manufacturers keep "innovating" with features like better glass coatings and more zoom range and other crap we don't need, instead of finding ways to put scopes on a diet without losing reliability. A reliable Swaro Z6 or a Zeiss V6 would be the be all end all for me! Until then, cement blocks are the only answer, and because we keep buying them (and suckers also keep buying bells and whistles on scopes that don't work), there's no need for manufacturers to change anything. So the circle goes round and round...

 

[id_jon]

I don't understand the fuss with 10 ounces when it means your optic is way less likely to fail.

 

[Ram94]

Or the compacts from NF at 21oz….

 

[KHNC]

I don't understand the fuss with 10 ounces when it means your optic is way less likely to fail.

Well i do have an XLR chassis shipping to me now that i ordered last year. I didnt buy it to put a 32oz scope on top of it. I have a friend that spent 10 years in SF in the Army. He went through sniper training as well. Absolutely swears by Leupold on everything. Doubtful his scopes were subjected to less than forms testing when on the battlefield in afghanistan. I dont like Leupold , but I still have one on a HOWA 308 that has been fine over the years. Testing shows failures on leupold but his weapon optics didnt fail him when he needed them to perform. Im staying with the Zeiss V6 and the few Viper HSLR's I have at the moment.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I guess i wont be throwing it around any to see. But that sucks that damn nearly every scope out there sucks. Im not buying a NF . I wont carry around a weapon with a cement block on top of it. And im not going to be fighting a war with it either.

Thats the trade off right? The trend is to chase a lightweight long range set up. I have struggled with the same thing. I think Forms tests have been awesome, but they are a sample of 1. I had a Vortex HSLR mounted on a 270 wsm fall off the counter onto a tile floor from 4.5 feet And land directly on the top turret, then the objective. Was 100% certain it had lost zero. Took it to the range the same day, dead nuts on. . I had a VX5HD that went through hell a few years ago on a back country mule deer hunt. Fell down several times, smacking the rifle, which was attached to my pack, against several shell rocks, and even had a little roll down a hill episode. Held zero - I was shocked. Those are also a sample of 1. Maybe I got lucky with both of those…who knows.

 

[SDHNTR]

I don't understand the fuss with 10 ounces when it means your optic is way less likely to fail.

you must not backpack hunt.