Vortex Razor HD LHT 4.5-22x50mm Q&A

[Afhunter1]

Vortex has a rep that is very regular on this forum.

I thought that too but forgot their name. But they haven’t jumped in here to say that this must be a one off or something and prob haven’t because they know form would just test another and get the same result. No sense sticking up for product if you know it’s gonna fail anyway.

 

[Bubblehide]

I thought that too but forgot their name. But they haven’t jumped in here to say that this must be a one off or something and prob haven’t because they know form would just test another and get the same result. No sense sticking up for product if you know it’s gonna fail anyway.

Even here there are many that ignore the failure rate but tout the warranty, knowing they will need to use it.

 

[Afhunter1]

Even here there are many that ignore the failure rate but tout the warranty, knowing they will need to use it.

Yeah it’s crazy.

 

[realunlucky]

This thread is about pure data.
How people use and apply that data in thier decision making process is up to them.

@Ryan Avery my opinion is when it's decided where to permanently store @Formidilosus tests we separate these forum discussions and consolidate only the actual testing results there(preserving both threads as discussion is important for different reasons). It'll be much more work but be more searchable and eliminate unnecessary commentary leaving only the data. I'll be happy to work on this up as a pet project if it's decided to go that direction.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

i wouldn’t consider it unethical at all if it’s a proven gun/scope combo. I had my tikka/swfa on a bipod fall off a shooting bench at the range onto pavement in the middle of a session, I shot 10 more and nothing moved. I wouldn’t hesitate taking a shot after an impact in the field

 

[SDHNTR]

They do, but we are the 1% of hunters. Way more Joe Schmos that go into a Sportsman’s Warehouse and pay full MSRP for whatever the guy behind the counter sells them as the best ever than guys that actually do any research for themselves.

10 years ago, I would’ve agreed with you, but we just had 1000 page post about the impact social media an the internet has had on hunting. I’ve met random people in the field multiple times and all over the country, they’ve mentioned this forum and others like it way too many times to count. Our impact is way more than 1% and these manufacturers would do well to pay attention to us.

This isn’t hard, make shit that works.

I guess what I am still struggling with is that all major manufacturers claim shockproof and durability and some even show video clips of their torture testing with scopes getting beaten on, slammed in a hydraulic ram, etc.

Text Zeiss for example, direct quote:

Shock:

• Shock and Awe - Zeiss' stringent testing procedures ensure faultless performance in the most rugged hunting conditions imaginable, making it possible for you to act and react with ultimate confidence in every hunting and shooting situation.
• Shock test with up to 1500 times G-Force - impact shock test at 1500 g-force, which corresponds to shooting the 460 Weatherby Magnum cartridge, with a 500 grain bullet travelling at 2600 feet per second.
• Continuous Shocks:
  • Abuse vs Reward - Whether packing it in a truck, on hoof and saddle, or on foot, the rough terrain demands the most your equipment has to offer. Rest assured, just as you are able to withstand the bumps, bruises, and breaks from your hunt, your Zeiss gear will be there to take the punishment right along with you. And it will be there to help you obtain your reward of the harvest.
  • Continuous Shocks for 90 Minutes - Even after 1.5 hours of continuous vibration in various directions, upon repeating the shot test for accuracy, the grouping on the test target remains unchanged.

Yet their V4 failed a simple drop test from several inches onto a blanket? Are they bullshitting us? Nothing more than marketing hype?

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

I thought that too but forgot their name. But they haven’t jumped in here to say that this must be a one off or something and prob haven’t because they know form would just test another and get the same result. No sense sticking up for product if you know it’s gonna fail anyway.

@gcronin is the Vortex rep.

 

[Formidilosus]

Yet their V4 failed a simple drop test from several inches onto a blanket? Are they bullshitting us? Nothing more than marketing hype?

They’re not lying, but they are bs’ing. What I mean by that, and it has been my base contention since I started posting, is that the way they frame it they are giving a false perception to the public. Read Zeiss’s statements-

• Continuous Shocks for 90 Minutes - Even after 1.5 hours of continuous vibration in various directions, upon repeating the shot test for accuracy, the grouping on the test target remains unchanged.

It reads on cursory glance that the scope maintained zero. But that is not what it actually says. It actually says that the “grouping” remained unchenaged- the group size, not placement.



This is what all of the scope companies do and say, except for one.

 

[SDHNTR]

They’re not lying, but they are bs’ing. What I mean by that, and it has been my base contention since I started posting, is that the way they frame it they are giving a false perception to the public. Read Zeiss’s statements-

• Continuous Shocks for 90 Minutes - Even after 1.5 hours of continuous vibration in various directions, upon repeating the shot test for accuracy, the grouping on the test target remains unchanged.

It reads on cursory glance that the scope maintained zero. But that is not what it actually says. It actually says that the “grouping” remained unchenaged- the group size, not placement.



This is what all of the scope companies do and say, except for one.

Wow. That’s deceiving.

 

[pc3]

Well one thing is for certain this LHT certainly is not put together like an NXS F1 Milspec 3.5-15x50

Its a shame...I'd rather it have been $150 dearer and absolutely "snow proof"

I mounted the one here on a cz .17 hornet yesterday....wont ever see hard use now........(was thinking of this scope for a lite weight .300 win mag build, now will just "spend the ounces" on a 4-20 ATACR I think) but definitely likely to take some knocks while spotlighting and certain to tip over while on a bipod at some point.

 

[260madman]

I guess I won’t share what happened Thursday before I shot my doe. Let’s say panties are bound up now and won’t get better.

 

[Ucsdryder]

They’re not lying, but they are bs’ing. What I mean by that, and it has been my base contention since I started posting, is that the way they frame it they are giving a false perception to the public. Read Zeiss’s statements-

• Continuous Shocks for 90 Minutes - Even after 1.5 hours of continuous vibration in various directions, upon repeating the shot test for accuracy, the grouping on the test target remains unchanged.

It reads on cursory glance that the scope maintained zero. But that is not what it actually says. It actually says that the “grouping” remained unchenaged- the group size, not placement.



This is what all of the scope companies do and say, except for one.

Are you saying this for a fact? Or are you Assuming this because their wording is vague?

 

[prm]

They’re not lying, but they are bs’ing. What I mean by that, and it has been my base contention since I started posting, is that the way they frame it they are giving a false perception to the public. Read Zeiss’s statements-

• Continuous Shocks for 90 Minutes - Even after 1.5 hours of continuous vibration in various directions, upon repeating the shot test for accuracy, the grouping on the test target remains unchanged.

It reads on cursory glance that the scope maintained zero. But that is not what it actually says. It actually says that the “grouping” remained unchenaged- the group size, not placement.



This is what all of the scope companies do and say, except for one.

Trijicon now claims they do too. It’s something at least.

Solid Zero Tested​

Riflescope zero is measured on each design after at least 1,000; 3,000 and 5,000 consecutive rounds to ensure no reticle shift has occurred and precision is maintained.

 

[Formidilosus]

Trijicon now claims they do too. It’s something at least.

Solid Zero Tested​

Riflescope zero is measured on each design after at least 1,000; 3,000 and 5,000 consecutive rounds to ensure no reticle shift has occurred and precision is maintained.

Haha.

 

[Bubblehide]

Are you saying this for a fact? Or are you Assuming this because their wording is vague?

The red is nothing vague about there wording, Forms interpretation is exactly representative.

 

[Ucsdryder]

The red is nothing vague about there wording, Forms interpretation is exactly representative.

How do you figure? It’s saying the groupings didn’t change on paper. Form is assuming it means they changed LOCATION on paper. He’s assuming. Or else he knows for a fact that they’re being misleading. I’m trying to clear it up.

 

[Formidilosus]

How do you figure? It’s saying the groupings didn’t change on paper. Form is assuming it means they changed LOCATION on paper. He’s assuming. Or else he knows for a fact that they’re being misleading. I’m trying to clear it up.

Anything further about it from me would be speaking out of turn- take that how you want. My goal is not to bad mouth a company in any way- it is some semblance of data and fact.

Notice with the (recent) Trijicon addition that PRM posted- there is no ambiguity about what they are saying.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

There’s over 15,000,000 hunting license holders in the U.S. This Forum has a total of less than 54,000 members. This thread currently has about 6,000 views. Not every view agrees with the basis of what has been done or are convinced of the conclusions that have been stated. A few thousand is not even a drop in the bucket or a blip on a radar out in the real world.

This is one of many forums. I am a member of probably 10-12 gun forums. I am active on 4. Then there are other forms of social media. In my circle of friends, I am recognized as being well informed. My buds ask me what I think about scopes and rifle pretty regularly. You have to consider the cumulative value of the knowledge that's shared.

 

[ETtikka]

Anything further about it from me would be speaking out of turn- take that how you want. My goal is not to bad mouth a company in any way- it is some semblance of data and fact.

Notice with the (recent) Trijicon addition that PRM posted- there is no ambiguity about what they are saying.

Form, you have previously posted that trijicons have proven solid in the past, is that correct?

 

[Bubblehide]

How do you figure? It’s saying the groupings didn’t change on paper. Form is assuming it means they changed LOCATION on paper. He’s assuming. Or else he knows for a fact that they’re being misleading. I’m trying to clear it up.

You really need to look at what they are saying, not what Form is saying. They could easily say exactly what they mean in a very very clear manner. What they do say is that the grouping didn't change, so lets just use a 1 moa group. If you shoot it (after zeroing) and you have consistent 1 moa groups, but then do their test, and it is still a 1 moa group, you have past their test, the fact that the group has shifted is irrelevant to them; but not definitely not to me. So lets say you go hunting and your rifle rode in the back of the pickup, taking the vibration of the trip. On your 3rd day you have a trophy bull in your sites, you shoot and miss low. You then make the walk of shame to camp, and drive off to check your zero and find it shifted down. You sent your scope in for repair, they test it and finds it still holds zero. They ship it back to you, you mount it and re zero, it holds zero, but next season the same thing happens again, and the next year and next year, each time you send it in, they find nothing outside their warranty (implied or not); you are SOL.

Clearly they are not warranting a shift because they clearly do not cover that in their statement (their statement is an implied warranty under the law).

Go for it Form!