Vortex Razor HD LHT 4.5-22x50mm Q&A

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So you’re going to shoot at animals after a hard knock (which honestly barely happens btw while hunting) because a stranger on the internet said a certain scope “doesn’t lose zero”? Wow.

So let’s walk through the scenario…

“Hey man, you’re scope just fell hard onto a rock!” “Let’s head back towards camp and make sure your still dialed in.”

“No I’m good! Some nameless, faceless, complete stranger who drops scopes on the internet told me this certain scope will be fine.” “Let’s go shoot at a living creature with it!”

I can’t understand how many of you think this is acceptable. Blowing my mind seeing all of this nonsense on here the last couple weeks on multiple threads.

I appreciate the unbiased info that’s being provided on scopes. Love this kind of stuff, but I’m going to have to check out of these if the aforementioned rhetoric keeps coming up.
Well no, not actually; it's a rhetorical question for discussion. Last time my rifle took a good bump, luckily I was still halfway to my hunting destination and could take some shots to double-check without scaring off game. Still, it's worth the rhetorical question and testing exactly what happens when a scope takes a knock.
 

mxgsfmdpx

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Well no, not actually. Last time my rifle took a good bump, luckily I was still halfway to my hunting destination and could take some shots to double-check without scaring off game. Still, it's worth the rhetorical question and testing exactly what happens when a scope takes a knock. Don't you think these questions are worth knowing?
Yes, they are worth knowing. But one example from one person isn’t useable data to me at all. Especially to take shots at animals based on it. No chance.
 

CoStick

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Unless the scope has been tested and demonstrated to not lose zero after a hard knock, right? I thought Formidilosus did a great discussion on this point with the new thread about the reasons/standards for these tests at https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/scope-field-eval-explanation-and-standards.246775/
I read it, doesn’t change anything. I am quite sure he would agree any scope can lose zero after a hard knock. You are just looking at probability and he could not run enough tests to get concrete numbers. You would need sample sizes in the thousands per model. Like I said, if your scope gets knocked do the responsible thing and check zero.
 

freddyG

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So you’re going to shoot at animals after a hard knock (which honestly barely happens btw while hunting) because a stranger on the internet said a certain scope “doesn’t lose zero”? Wow.

So let’s walk through the scenario…

“Hey man, you’re scope just fell hard onto a rock!” “Let’s head back towards camp and make sure your still dialed in.”

“No I’m good! Some nameless, faceless, complete stranger who drops scopes on the internet told me this certain scope will be fine.” “Let’s go shoot at a living creature with it!”

I can’t understand how many of you think this is acceptable. Blowing my mind seeing all of this nonsense on here the last couple weeks on multiple threads.

I appreciate the unbiased info that’s being provided on scopes. Love this kind of stuff, but I’m going to have to check out of these if the aforementioned rhetoric keeps coming up.
I agree with Form. Most dudes will take the shot. They may not post on the internet about it, but that’s the reality.

As far as seeing animals after you drop your rifle, Murphy’s Law always prevails.
 
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I read it, doesn’t change anything. I am quite sure he would agree any scope can lose zero after a hard knock. You are just looking at probability and he could not run enough tests to get concrete numbers. You would need sample sizes in the thousands per model. Like I said, if your scope gets knocked do the responsible thing and check zero.
Statistically, sample sizes in the dozens would work. It would be great if that were an option to see with published data (but look at the expense to the tester....). I suppose this also all depends on what we're meaning here by "hard knock"-- e.g. bouncing in the back seat when the truck hits a bump as a hard knock versus falling on it when it's strapped to your pack. But from Form's testing so far, apparently an 18" drop onto a shooting mat placed on grass is a hard knock for a lot of scopes.
 
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So let’s walk through the scenario…

“Hey man, you’re scope just fell hard onto a rock!” “Let’s head back towards camp and make sure your still dialed in.”

“No I’m good! Some nameless, faceless, complete stranger who drops scopes on the internet told me this certain scope will be fine.” “Let’s go shoot at a living creature with it!”


Ok. So answer for yourself- your on a ten day cross country hunt, on the last morning, and as you get into position on the buck/bull you’ve been hunting the entire trip, you slip and the rifle hits the ground. The animal is at 467 yards- are you saying you’re going to leave the animal, and end the hunt without taking a shot?
 

CoStick

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Statistically, sample sizes in the dozens would work. It would be great if that were an option to see with published data (but look at the expense to the tester....). I suppose this also all depends on what we're meaning here by "hard knock"-- e.g. bouncing in the back seat when the truck hits a bump as a hard knock versus falling on it when it's strapped to your pack. But from Form's testing so far, apparently an 18" drop onto a shooting mat placed on grass is a hard knock for a lot of scopes.
Yes, I would check zero if I was concerned. Just like too much wind or not enough light, This type of thought process is like saying I have a magnum, so I am better off if I make a bad shot.
 

CoStick

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Ok. So answer for yourself- your on a ten day cross country hunt, on the last morning, and as you get into position on the buck/bull you’ve been hunting the entire trip, you slip and the rifle hits the ground. The animal is at 467 yards- are you saying you’re going to leave the animal, and end the hunt without taking a shot?
I would not take the shot. What if you didn’t drop the rifle but the wind was a bit stronger than you are used to. You still taking the shot?
 
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I read it, doesn’t change anything. I am quite sure he would agree any scope can lose zero after a hard knock. You are just looking at probability and he could not run enough tests to get concrete numbers. You would need sample sizes in the thousands per model.

You do not need sample sizes in the thousands. If you do, then you need shot group sizes in the thousands….

Like everything else, sample sizes between 10 and 30 start having validity.




Like I said, if your scope gets knocked do the responsible thing and check zero.

Same question then- your on a ten day cross country hunt, on the last morning, and as you get into position on the buck/bull you’ve been hunting the entire trip, you slip and the rifle hits the ground. The animal is at 467 yards- are you saying you’re going to leave the animal, and end the hunt without taking a shot?
 
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I would not take the shot. What if you didn’t drop the rifle but the wind was a bit stronger than you are used to. You still taking the shot?

I’m not sure what you are asking? Are saying that you wouldn’t take any shot at 467 yards on an animal?
 

mxgsfmdpx

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Ok. So answer for yourself- your on a ten day cross country hunt, on the last morning, and as you get into position on the buck/bull you’ve been hunting the entire trip, you slip and the rifle hits the ground. The animal is at 467 yards- are you saying you’re going to leave the animal, and end the hunt without taking a shot?
That’s a very rare hypothetical but I’ll answer honestly. If I actually dropped my rifle onto the ground I would leave the animal knowing my only way of killing it is likely comprised. Been doing this a long time and scope compromises like you’re mentioning rarely happen. Most scope compromises I’ve seen have to do with vibration and water ingress causing failures.

Let me ask you the same question and same scenario. Are you taking the shot or not?
 

CoStick

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You do not need sample sizes in the thousands. If you do, then you need shot group sizes in the thousands….

Like everything else, sample sizes between 10 and 30 start having validity.






Same question then- your on a ten day cross country hunt, on the last morning, and as you get into position on the buck/bull you’ve been hunting the entire trip, you slip and the rifle hits the ground. The animal is at 467 yards- are you saying you’re going to leave the animal, and end the hunt without taking a shot?
I already answered the 2nd. My question for you is what sample size of the LHT have you used prior to posting results?
 
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Yes, I would check zero if I was concerned. Just like too much wind or not enough light, This type of thought process is like saying I have a magnum, so I am better off if I make a bad shot.
Too much wind or not enough light are clear no-shoot scenarios, dictating waiting, getting closer, or passing. I think that's different than taking a shot with a rifle that has had a 6" drop when you've already tested that scope/rifle at an 18" drop previously with no loss of zero.
 

mxgsfmdpx

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I agree with Form. Most dudes will take the shot. They may not post on the internet about it, but that’s the reality.

As far as seeing animals after you drop your rifle, Murphy’s Law always prevails.
Most “dudes” I know and have hunted with would absolutely not take the shot. Who are you guys hunting with honestly?
 

CoStick

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I’m not sure what you are asking? Are saying that you wouldn’t take any shot at 467 yards on an animal?
Once you drop your rifle you introduce an unknown variable and I would not take a shot. The same reason if wind conditions are stronger than my comfort level I wouldn’t shoot. What Day of the hunt doesn’t change a person’s character.
 
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That’s a very rare hypothetical but I’ll answer honestly. If I actually dropped my rifle onto the ground I would leave the animal knowing my only way of killing it is likely comprised. Been doing this a long time and scope compromises like you’re mentioning rarely happen. Most scope compromises I’ve seen have to do with vibration and water ingress causing failures.

Then we- everyone I hunt with, and you- have very different experiences. I don’t think I’ve ever done a single backpack hunting trip in the mountains where at least one person didn’t have their rifle take a hard impact. That exact example was a real one from the last couple of years.



Let me ask you the same question and same scenario. Are you taking the shot or not?


With most NF’s, most SWFA SS’s, some S&B’s, and some Bushnell LRHS/LRTS- absolutely. Not even a hesitation. The scope that was used in the real example has been dropped hundred of times from 3-7 feet. IF I had a chance to check zero I would, but I also wouldn’t feel unethical in the slightest taking that shot a hundred times over.

With the LHT- I would be certain that it wouldn’t be zeroed still.
 

mxgsfmdpx

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All these posts of guys dropping rifles and taking compromised shots is such BS lol. This is just getting ridiculous.

I would like to think this forum makes up experienced back country men and women. Not Elmer Fudds clunking around dropping rifles all the time and then shooting at animals. Hint. It’s just not happening on a measurable scale!

Like I’ve said many times here. 30 plus years backpacking, hunting, shooting competitively, teaching shooting, the list goes on. Never have I heard of so many people suddenly dropping their only way of killing the animal they worked so hard to get to.

Shit happens out there for sure, but to sit here on the internet and say you are “clumsy” and “I drop my rifle this one time blah blah…” to justify some guys “drop tests” is ridiculous. And then to add onto it by saying you’d shoot at the animal because of these “tests”? It’s just laughable.
 
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All these posts of guys dropping rifles and taking compromised shots is such BS lol. This is just getting ridiculous.

I would like to think this forum makes up experienced back country men and women. Not Elmer Fudds clunking around dropping rifles all the time and then shooting at animals. Hint. It’s just not happening on a measurable scale!

Like I’ve said many times here. 30 plus years backpacking, hunting, shooting competitively, teaching shooting, the list goes on. Never have I heard of so many people suddenly dropping their only way of killing the animal they worked so hard to get to.

Shit happens out there for sure, but to sit here on the internet and say you are “clumsy” and “I drop my rifle this one time blah blah…” to justify some guys “drop tests” is ridiculous. And then to add onto it by saying you’d shoot at the animal because of these “tests”? It’s just laughable.

Your misinterpreting what is being said. You may want to re-read the thread.
 
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