Victory Rip vs Rip Tko

[heatstroke18]

Someone is going to have to explain to me the difference between the Rip and the Rip Tko versions. I can’t seem to find much except “the carbon weave is different and it stabilizes faster”. Seems hoakie for the steep price tag per arrow difference. But maybe I’m missing something.

 

[Zac]

Victory is super hoakie. Just look at their hoakie spine marks.

 

[Laned]

My understanding is that the RIP has a carbon weave where each fiber is lined up in the same direction (down the length of the shaft). And, the RIP TKO has a carbon weave where some fibers are running the length of the shaft like the RIP, but also has fibers that run at some angle. It comes down to carbon fiber laminate production. The carbon fiber handles forces in the direction of the fiber better than at angle to the fiber. So, if the structure (in this case an arrow shaft) is made of carbon fibers that are oriented in different directions it will be able to handle forces better from multiple directions. This applies to an arrow flexing in that there will be more fibers in the TKO that are in line with the directions of the forces in a flexing arrow. Hope that helps. I tried not to get in the weeds of the physics behind it too much.

I would add that Victory isn't the only company doing this. They're just being more specific about marketing one of the benefits.

 

[Bmoore]

Victory is super hoakie. Just look at their hoakie spine marks.

What do you mean? I’m not really knowledgeable about arrows and was looking to get some Rip Tkos myself this year. Is there a reason to think these arrows aren’t as good as others? I was looking at the Rip Tkos in 250 spine because the regular don’t come in 250 and the 250 spine are lighter GPI than other 250s in the .204 shaft diameters.

 

[5MilesBack]

They mark their arrows so the spine is aligned the same for each arrow. I just built a dozen of the VF TKO's and only 2/3's were on with the marks when actually shot. Easton has some new arrows where they say they dont need to be spine aligned due to how they are made and I didn't find that to be true at all either. Just turning the arrow a quarter turn changes the reaction of the arrow due to where the spine is aligned.

Marketing. Most shooters can't tell a difference, and even more of them have never even heard of nock tuning or spine alignment.

 

[Zac]

What do you mean? I’m not really knowledgeable about arrows and was looking to get some Rip Tkos myself this year. Is there a reason to think these arrows aren’t as good as others? I was looking at the Rip Tkos in 250 spine because the regular don’t come in 250 and the 250 spine are lighter GPI than other 250s in the .204 shaft diameters.

The thing about arrows is that most of them are made out of the same plant in Mexico. The weaves the resins, different modulus carbons are all dealers choice. Victory struggles with the same consistency problems as any other arrow company using that factory. Buy today, and the same components will not fit the same on a new batch a year from now. Easton is the only company in the US that uses an automated system to make shafts and control quality from the inside. Even they have arrows being built in the Philippines. Yet their popular offerings like the Axis line, FMJ, Procomp, X10s etc, are built in house. IMO it doesn't make sense to buy anything other than Easton. These other companies try to compensate for the lack of consistency with ridiculous marketing. Carbon Express says they have 3 different spines in one shaft, while Victory has their bogus spine mark. Look around at what the top archers in the world are shooting. You won't see Victory there. Look at the most intelligent and accomplished hunters. Bill from Ironwill, John Dudley, Chris Bee. They all shoot Easton.

 

[nphunter]

The thing about arrows is that most of them are made out of the same plant in Mexico. The weaves the resins, different modulus carbons are all dealers choice. Victory struggles with the same consistency problems as any other arrow company using that factory. Buy today, and the same components will not fit the same on a new batch a year from now. Easton is the only company in the US that uses an automated system to make shafts and control quality from the inside. Even they have arrows being built in the Philippines. Yet their popular offerings like the Axis line, FMJ, Procomp, X10s etc, are built in house. IMO it doesn't make sense to buy anything other than Easton. These other companies try to compensate for the lack of consistency with ridiculous marketing. Carbon Express says they have 3 different spines in one shaft, while Victory has their bogus spine mark. Look around at what the top archers in the world are shooting. You won't see Victory there. Look at the most intelligent and accomplished hunters. Bill from Ironwill, John Dudley, Chris Bee. They all shoot Easton.

I've had a couple of dozen of both and IMO the RIP TKO is a much better arrow all the way around than the AXIS Match Grade, more durable too. They both will stack nicely in the center of my NASP target at 100 yards, both will shoot better than 99% of archery can shoot them.

I would love to stay with Easton since they are USA based but I just feel like the RIP TKO is the better arrow, It's hard to look at what pro's do, JD shot for easton/hoyt for 15 year and started having them build his arrows when he was still part of Hoyt. I'm sure he and several other top archers could shoot about any arrow in existence and shoot them better than most of us could shoot the best arrows.


OP the RIP and RIP TKO are totally different arrows, the RIP TKO is weaved and is thicker and stronger than the regular RIP, they really aren't comparable arrows.

 

[5MilesBack]

I really like weaved carbon arrows for toughness and durability. As long as they have great straightness and spine consistency specs, and shoot great, I'll take a weaved carbon arrow every time. That's why I'm testing these RIP TKO's.........I just wish they came in a .200 spine. I'm also testing the Sirius Apollo shafts, which are also weaved carbon. The winner of these two will most likely be my next arrows. If neither rises to the top, then I'll sacrifice the durability and fall back on only consistency and accuracy and go back to my ACC's.

 

[heatstroke18]

Yea I’ve also been looking at small diameter shafts as well. My current Easton axis is borderline heavier than I want it to be. I want to stay around 500G~ for my arrow and right now I’m looking at 540 and if I goto a 125g head to increase my FOC the. I’m in the 565 range. I want to keep my FPS close to 280. Currently 276 if I remember correctly. So I was looking at some lighter GPI shafts but don’t want to sacrifice weight for strength. I wouldnt mind switching to as axis 4mm or a GT pierce, but the .166 components in the past haven’t been the best.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

So where do the Black Eagle Rampage fit in here. I’ve read a d heard that the tolerances of BE are 2nd to none. They measure spine straightness over 32” instead of 28”.

 

[Zac]

So where do the Black Eagle Rampage fit in here. I’ve read a d heard that the tolerances of BE are 2nd to none. They measure spine straightness over 32” instead of 28”.

I believe Black Eagle is the exception to the rule. They are just as tight if not tighter tolerances than Easton. I believe more shooters won with Black Eagle in 2020 than any other company. I don't know their secret sauce. I don't know where they are made, or how they keep such amazing tolerances. Randy Kitts is a super cool dude and is building an archery empire. I would recommend anything with his name on it.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

Yeah I’ve shot RIP and RIP TKO for last 4 years. I’m leaning towards Rampage with brass HIT and IW collar. Probably finish out around 460 - 470gr and keep me swine 278 - 283 fps which is where I like to be.

 

[heatstroke18]

Black eagle is always in the conversation, just getting ready to start tinkering with some shafts I haven’t used before

 

[nphunter]

Yea I’ve also been looking at small diameter shafts as well. My current Easton axis is borderline heavier than I want it to be. I want to stay around 500G~ for my arrow and right now I’m looking at 540 and if I goto a 125g head to increase my FOC the. I’m in the 565 range. I want to keep my FPS close to 280. Currently 276 if I remember correctly. So I was looking at some lighter GPI shafts but don’t want to sacrifice weight for strength. I wouldnt mind switching to as axis 4mm or a GT pierce, but the .166 components in the past haven’t been the best.

This year I will be shooting 300 spine RIP TKO's, 100gr IW inserts, and 25gr IW collars, the arrows will be just under 500gr at 27" and FOC with be right at 20%. That's with a 100gr head.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

This year I will be shooting 300 spine RIP TKO's, 100gr IW inserts, and 25gr IW collars, the arrows will be just under 500gr at 27" and FOC with be right at 20%. That's with a 100gr head.

Are you trying to get 20%? Seems high.

 

[Zac]

I talked to Dorge from Firenock last week. He said his testing has shown extreme diminishing returns in FOC after 12 percent. He was seeing losses of 38 percent retained energy between the 12 percent vs the 20 percent. Anyway there's a whole lecture online you can watch with all the details.

 

[Fins_N_Tines]

I talked to Dorge from Firenock last week. He said his testing has shown extreme diminishing returns in FOC after 12 percent. He was seeing losses of 38 percent retained energy between the 12 percent vs the 20 percent. Anyway there's a whole lecture online you can watch with all the details.

yeah I have not done any testing or have enough data shooting a bunch of animals with high and low FOC to have a real say, but I’ve done a bunch of research to know that I want a decent overall heavy arrow and don’t give a crap about what my FOC is. I am middle of road for everything. I would love to shoot a heavy arrow but I also like range forgiveness, so for my draw length and 70lb weight seem to be in that 278 - 285 FPS range.

 

[heatstroke18]

I’m in the same boat fins_n_tines. I want to keep my FPS in the 280 +/-5 range. I’m a tinker. If I can get a lighter arrow with moderate front weight then that’s what I want to do. The axis at 10.7 limits how much front weight, vanes, nocks I can run and still stay in that speed range. But an 8-9.5 gpi shaft I can pretty much run whatever I want for components and still be north of the 275 fps goal

 

[nphunter]

Are you trying to get 20%? Seems high.

I’m just trying to build an arrow that is around 500gr for elk hunting that puts me at 280fps. I was shooting RIP TKO’s and switched to axis match and preferred the RIP. I have plenty of energy but at shooting a mechanical too, I am happy to gain the FOC since it comes from a 100gr IW insert, 25gr collar and 100gr head which should hit like a hammer.
ZAC, I have a set of TKO’s at 490gr and Axis at 500gr, the axis are 12% FOC and the TKO’s are 17% and the TKO’s hit slightly higher on the target at 100 yards, both are close enough at all yardages that I can still hold center and shoot and more than accurate enough to hunt with.
I’ve never cared much for higher FOC but the TKO is a better arrow than the axis for me and more durable and it happens to have way higher FOC than the axis at 500gr.
I do think there is an advantage to having more steel in the front of your arrow for durability reasons. Also I think an arrow with higher weight on the front vs one with the weight spread will be less likely to deflect from small brush and leaves.
I don’t get too caught up with experiments with long bows, or shooting into gel or bricks or plywood. I like to make adjustments to my setup based off of my experience shooting elk. I have been happy with a 480-500gr arrow, I like small fletchings because the are more durable and don’t get smashed sitting in my case, I like mechanicals because I’ve had trouble with blood trails and am color blind. I also like messing with stuff so I try a bunch of different stuff with my bow and arrows. I have a press setup at home as bare shaft tune every time I make an arrow change.
I think there are huge flaws in every test I’ve seen where guys add a bunch of weight to an arrow and say it does (X) I order to get accurate results the first thing than should be done before each different weight or tip weight change is to tune your bow for perfect arrow flight for that particular arrow. I think if that was done on all of these test that guys are doing the margins would be a lot closer.
I also don’t like listening to test results for hunting arrows by people who sit on ground blinds shooting deer and pigs at 20 yards.
If a person is an elk hunter and has killed a bunch of elk and adjusted accordingly to make theirselves a better elk killing setup I’m all ears because that is what I’m after.
Honestly I’ve never really seen any major issues with any arrow setup I’ve shot through an animal. Arrows from 7-17% FOC weighing 330-500grs with all kinds of different heads have worked.
Tuning my bow with a 280fps arrow had been much easier than when I was shooting 315fps.
The biggest thing that has helped me is shooting at longer ranges often. I use to only be able to go out and shoot past 40 when I could set side time to shoot. Now I have a 100 range setup all summer at home and can shoot all I want.

 

[heatstroke18]

I’m just trying to build an arrow that is around 500gr for elk hunting that puts me at 280fps. I was shooting RIP TKO’s and switched to axis match and preferred the RIP. I have plenty of energy but at shooting a mechanical too, I am happy to gain the FOC since it comes from a 100gr IW insert, 25gr collar and 100gr head which should hit like a hammer.
ZAC, I have a set of TKO’s at 490gr and Axis at 500gr, the axis are 12% FOC and the TKO’s are 17% and the TKO’s hit slightly higher on the target at 100 yards, both are close enough at all yardages that I can still hold center and shoot and more than accurate enough to hunt with.
I’ve never cared much for higher FOC but the TKO is a better arrow than the axis for me and more durable and it happens to have way higher FOC than the axis at 500gr.
I do think there is an advantage to having more steel in the front of your arrow for durability reasons. Also I think an arrow with higher weight on the front vs one with the weight spread will be less likely to deflect from small brush and leaves.
I don’t get too caught up with experiments with long bows, or shooting into gel or bricks or plywood. I like to make adjustments to my setup based off of my experience shooting elk. I have been happy with a 480-500gr arrow, I like small fletchings because the are more durable and don’t get smashed sitting in my case, I like mechanicals because I’ve had trouble with blood trails and am color blind. I also like messing with stuff so I try a bunch of different stuff with my bow and arrows. I have a press setup at home as bare shaft tune every time I make an arrow change.
I think there are huge flaws in every test I’ve seen where guys add a bunch of weight to an arrow and say it does (X) I order to get accurate results the first thing than should be done before each different weight or tip weight change is to tune your bow for perfect arrow flight for that particular arrow. I think if that was done on all of these test that guys are doing the margins would be a lot closer.
I also don’t like listening to test results for hunting arrows by people who sit on ground blinds shooting deer and pigs at 20 yards.
If a person is an elk hunter and has killed a bunch of elk and adjusted accordingly to make theirselves a better elk killing setup I’m all ears because that is what I’m after.
Honestly I’ve never really seen any major issues with any arrow setup I’ve shot through an animal. Arrows from 7-17% FOC weighing 330-500grs with all kinds of different heads have worked.
Tuning my bow with a 280fps arrow had been much easier than when I was shooting 315fps.
The biggest thing that has helped me is shooting at longer ranges often. I use to only be able to go out and shoot past 40 when I could set side time to shoot. Now I have a 100 range setup all summer at home and can shoot all I want.

Let it be heard! Hahaha. Like I’ve mentioned above, I’m in the same philosophy. This all started when I wanted to add a footer to my axis and it was going to increase my weight and get my in the mid 500’s. My goal weight/ speed is 500g and 280 FPS. Seems to be the sweet spot for everything. If the FOC falls at 10% or 18% so be it.