Vegas Shooting- truly sick

[Beendare]

The above link makes some silly statements.... an AR is not that heavy....... but I have to say something doesn't smell right to me about this incident.

Why does one shooter need 2 holes to shoot from? Seems weird but Forensics will turn something up pretty easily if there were multiple shooters. Why so many guns? But then asking rational questions when this creep was obviously off his rocker is probably the stink i'm smelling, no way to make sense of a mentally ill person. The evidence will tell us.

On the other hand, I think this would have been a lot worse if there had been multiple shooters with their chit together on long range shooting....say shooting from sticks. There is no doubt security at these big hotels is going to be much tighter in the future with Xray machines and such.

 

[5MilesBack]

Seriously, you couldn't load 500+ rounds into a bolt-action rifle in 11 minutes, much less shoot them accurately.

I wouldn't have needed 500 rounds.

But throw the logic test at what has already been proposed. "Let's ban bump stocks because they simulate automatic fire". Let's see here........automatic weapons are already LEGAL to own. So........we'll ban bump stocks because they "simulate" automatic fire, which is already legal. Seriously? Do these Congressmen ACTUALLY get paid for this job? That's pathetic.

Here's the bottom line: Thousands of people or more already have bump stocks. How many of them have used them in a crime? So one guy uses them in a crime and the country goes bonkers. People are searching for "something to do"........."something that can be done". Well, putting more legislation and emphasis and effort on the inanimate objects instead of where it belongs........is like legislating vehicle restrictions for all, because someone got a DUI. It's embarrassing to even be associated as a human being with folks that think like that. I threw a rock through my neighbor's window, so the logical solution is to ban or legislate restrictions on the use of rocks. SMH.

 

[Deepshax]

Why does one shooter need 2 holes to shoot from? Seems weird but Forensics will turn something up pretty easily if there were multiple shooters. Why so many guns? But then asking rational questions when this creep was obviously off his rocker is probably the stink i'm smelling, no way to make sense of a mentally ill person. The evidence will tell us.

I read an article stating one of the shattered windows offered a better line of site to take shots at the airplane fuel tanks across the street (where they later found bullet holes)

 

[toadmeister]

"Let's ban bump stocks because they simulate automatic fire". Let's see here........automatic weapons are already LEGAL to own. SMH.

That statement is misleading. Automatics require a specially approved stamp to my knowledge. I cannot purchase an automatic like a semi-auto with form 4373.

Someone else please chime in with better information.

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[rustyN]

That statement is misleading. Automatics require a specially approved stamp to my knowledge. I cannot purchase an automatic like a semi-auto with form 4373.

Someone else please chime in with better information.

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They are a class 3 item, so yes you need an NFA Stamp with the appropriate approved form 4- which also indicates passing a background check by the ATF.

ETA: It is the same process you have to go through to buy other class 3 items like suppressors, short barreled rifles, etc. Cost is a huge barrier to entry for most people. A FA M16 lower will run $25k+ and a registered drop in auto sear is probably in the same range.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

That statement is misleading. Automatics require a specially approved stamp to my knowledge. I cannot purchase an automatic like a semi-auto with form 4373.

You are correct that there is another layer of red tape in owning auto's but I have yet to see anything that would have prohibited this guy from being eligible to owning a class 3. He probably (feasibly) could have taken it a step further and owned full auto's for this senseless act.

 

[5MilesBack]

You are correct that there is another layer of red tape in owning auto's but I have yet to see anything that would have prohibited this guy from being eligible to owning a class 3. He probably (feasibly) could have taken it a step further and owned full auto's for this senseless act.

The guy was supposedly a multi-millionaire. Of course he could have had several fully automatic weapons. The question is.........was this guy even a gun guy? Did he even know what he was doing? Was someone else directing this whole operation?

Our problem is that the people we've put in charge of our lives that are making these decisions for everyone seriously have no clue what all these weapons and accessories are all about. Feinstein "looked" at pictures of guns and said we should ban AR's because "they look scary". THESE are the people controlling our lives and country. Our finest. SMH.

 

[justin davis]

Even if he wasn't a "gun guy." It's doesn't take a gun guy to take a gun and shoot it. Given there were 30,000 people packed into an area. A blind person could have shot a gun and killed that many people. I think we are lucky he wasn't a gun guy. If it was someone who knew what they were doing a lot more people would have died.

 

[backcountry_hunter]

The guy was supposedly a multi-millionaire. Of course he could have had several fully automatic weapons. The question is.........was this guy even a gun guy? Did he even know what he was doing? Was someone else directing this whole operation?

Our problem is that the people we've put in charge of our lives that are making these decisions for everyone seriously have no clue what all these weapons and accessories are all about. Feinstein "looked" at pictures of guns and said we should ban AR's because "they look scary". THESE are the people controlling our lives and country. Our finest. SMH.

reading between the lines I don't believe he was a "gun guy". If I was as wealthy as the media has made him out to be, I would own alot more rare and valuable firearms than I already do. He apparently purchased these firearms/ammo over the course of several months with the sole intention of causing a massive amount of harm and not because he was a gun enthusiast. He learned enough about them to operate them as intended and that was enough.... there isn't exactly a barrage of friends and business owners coming forward saying he loved guns or was a NRA member or spent hours each week at the range.

 

[kda082]

As a father of two teenagers I struggle with this. My daughter goes off to college next year and away from my protection mostly. I like my rifles with walnut, levers, and pumps, but I do like my glocks. Some folks shouldn't own any guns and I'm talking about abusive or psychotic people. I doubt anything could have stopped this guy from hurting people with guns or other. I'm not sure how we fix this but I have no animosity for my fellow gun owners or people who simply want their loved ones to be safe. My prayers to all those involved.

 

[mtnwrunner]

Wow. We just came out of the high country after spending a week backpacking in on an elk hunting trip and we saw a flag flying at half staff. I asked the owner what happened and he told me about Vegas. Sick, just plain friggin sick. I hate these type of things and I always will. Not only do you have the victims, but you also have everything else that goes with it, as in first and later responders. They see things that no one should ever have to. I've been there.......
In any case, God bless them all.

Randy

 

[DougP]

Here's the bottom line: Thousands of people or more already have bump stocks. How many of them have used them in a crime? So one guy uses them in a crime and the country goes bonkers. People are searching for "something to do"........."something that can be done". Well, putting more legislation and emphasis and effort on the inanimate objects instead of where it belongs........is like legislating vehicle restrictions for all, because someone got a DUI. It's embarrassing to even be associated as a human being with folks that think like that. I threw a rock through my neighbor's window, so the logical solution is to ban or legislate restrictions on the use of rocks. SMH.

Come on man. You’re not going to win any hearts and minds to your side by comparing weapons capable (and actually used) of mass murder to rocks and driving infractions. Even the NRA is supporting the banning of bump stocks.

Gun control a complicated issue and involves a lot of irresponsible and irrational rhetoric on BOTH sides. I get that a price is to be paid for freedom - guilty criminals going free on procedural errors, gun crimes, etc., but there has to be room for common sense. We have laws restricting felons from purchasing guns. No one serious is calling for an open market for fully automatic guns, grenades, mortars, etc. Why not? Because it would allow sickos to become much more efficient at killing mobs of people.

I can say with a fair amount of confidence that everyone on this site is a responsible gun owner. I’m sure the vast majority are ethical hunters as well. There are numerous threads on this site blasting non ethical hunters and encouraging responsible discourse about hunting and careful consideration before posting gruesome photos or videos that may be misconstrued by anti-hunters. I think we should apply the same rationale to gun ownership. “Cold dead hands” statements (and the like) inflame adversaries and do nothing to bridge any gaps in understanding or further the cause of gun ownership. As gun owners we need to make some common sense choices, or the growing number of adversaries will start making them for us.


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[napeequa55]

A registry or we would just have another law on the books that's basically unenforceable.

We have universal background checks in Washington state. You must pass a check in order to sell person to person.

Law enforcement has declared the law unenforceable and I think less than a handful of arrests have been made in the two years its been on the books.

But technically there is no registry so they don't know who owned these weapons prior to this initiative being passed.


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[5MilesBack]

Come on man. You’re not going to win any hearts and minds to your side by comparing weapons capable (and actually used) of mass murder to rocks and driving infractions. Even the NRA is supporting the banning of bump stocks.

I know. Logic and reason are fleeting concepts these days.

The bottom line is (and what should be taken from all these events) is that it's not the guns (or the rocks, or vehicles).........it's the people. Yet all everyone can focus on is the guns. WHY? Do they focus on the vehicles? No. Would they focus on the rock? No. There's your answer. The agenda is not about saving lives or making sense. It's 100% about disarming American citizens......period. And why? Well, you can't control the "people" if they're all armed.

For anyone and everyone that thinks that more laws and more legislation is the answer..........why not just make a new law with legislation that "bans the use of all firearms in the commission of a crime or domestic attack"? If laws and legislation are the answer........then that should pretty much take care of that. Man, that was easy. Next subject.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

I know. Logic and reason are fleeting concepts these days.

The bottom line is (and what should be taken from all these events) is that it's not the guns (or the rocks, or vehicles).........it's the people. Yet all everyone can focus on is the guns. WHY? Do they focus on the vehicles? No. Would they focus on the rock? No. There's your answer. The agenda is not about saving lives or making sense. It's 100% about disarming American citizens......period. And why? Well, you can't control the "people" if they're all armed.

For anyone and everyone that thinks that more laws and more legislation is the answer..........why not just make a new law with legislation that "bans the use of all firearms in the commission of a crime or domestic attack"? If laws and legislation are the answer........then that should pretty much take care of that. Man, that was easy. Next subject.

Most sensible post in this whole thread.



This shooter obviously wasn't very practiced with firearms. Why would anyone choose a bump fired weapon to commit mass murder? I realize he wasn't required to have precise aim but, these things eliminate any kind of precision by the way they operate. Its only an idea that makes them more efficient for that kind of work. So, why did he choose them? One thing is for sure, by deciding to use these weapons he sure put the suppressor law on the shelf. Which was very close to becoming law.




I'm not a conspiracy nut. And, I don't know everything. But, I'm starting to find it too convenient that mass murder situations, worldwide or here, are eing looked at with glazed eyes that favor liberal ideology. When terrorists attack foreign countries and, this administration takes steps to prevent it here, we get opposition. When the former administration took more severe steps to do the same, there were no issues presented. Every time the masses of this country fights to preserve American heritage, we get events in this country that weaken that resolve with many people. The biggest problem with this is the opposition is organized and, they say the same recited lines in defense of their position. Its one thing to be against something. It is totally different to have the same argument against your opponent in multiple circumstances. To me is says there is something else going on.

 

[orionsbrother]

I know. Logic and reason are fleeting concepts these days.

The bottom line is (and what should be taken from all these events) is that it's not the guns (or the rocks, or vehicles).........it's the people. Yet all everyone can focus on is the guns. WHY? Do they focus on the vehicles? No. Would they focus on the rock? No. There's your answer. The agenda is not about saving lives or making sense. It's 100% about disarming American citizens......period. And why? Well, you can't control the "people" if they're all armed.

Yep. And here in the land of the self-proclaimed "enlightened", more and more people have taken up the mantra "Australia"

My heart goes out to all of the people suffering from this chit stain's actions. He was a pilot though. If he had dive bombed a chemical or gasoline laden plane into that crowd, what legislation would be pressed? The truck attack in Nice killed 86 people. What if he drove a truck through the concert crowd?

It sucks that there isn't a clear, proactive path to head off these sociopaths, but ineffective legislation merely supports other agendas. 5milesback is right.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

The above link makes some silly statements.... an AR is not that heavy....... but I have to say something doesn't smell right to me about this incident.

Why does one shooter need 2 holes to shoot from? Seems weird but Forensics will turn something up pretty easily if there were multiple shooters. Why so many guns? But then asking rational questions when this creep was obviously off his rocker is probably the stink i'm smelling, no way to make sense of a mentally ill person. The evidence will tell us.

On the other hand, I think this would have been a lot worse if there had been multiple shooters with their chit together on long range shooting....say shooting from sticks. There is no doubt security at these big hotels is going to be much tighter in the future with Xray machines and such.

Doubt it...hunters and CCW permit holders bring firearms into casinos daily. Rifles are checked with security and locked up. You think they are gonna x-ray every bag that comes in? Ha!

 

[Billinsd]

Does anyone know if the shooter's girlfriend was Muslim? If she was then there could be a connection, if she is not I would imagine any connection would be extremely slim. Either way it seems extremely slim that this guy was motivated by terrorists. However, there was something motivating this guy.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

There's some compromise possible here. But leftists keep chipping away at our gun rights and we get nothing back. There's no give and take. Just take.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

There should be no compromise for the betterment of America in the future