Utah- what the hell?

[tdhanses]

I don’t really care about statues. I do care about the North American Model of wildlife management and the public land trust of our national forests and BLM lands.

Why does the model change due to land ownership changes, states would still manage the wildlife?

 

[CorbLand]

Unfortunately our country can’t afford it after 225 years.

We can afford it. Just have to stop sending all our money to other places.

 

[tdhanses]

You sure?

Well look at our federal debt and how many states would fall apart financially without federal aid, last I checked that’s a bankruptcy for anyone else.

Everyone was up in arms when GM was bailed out, well 80% of the states are currently on an annual bail out as well.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Why does the model change due to land ownership changes, states would still manage the wildlife?

Losing public lands in the west would exponentially drive hunting towards a European model.

 

[tdhanses]

Losing public lands in the west would exponentially drive hunting towards a European model.

Maybe but hunting isn’t really anything other then a hobby in today’s world and managed by the greedy, residents and nonresidents both are a big part of that.

But if we could sell off some of that land, let states collect property taxes and reduce our debt load and federal aid requirements in reality it would be best for the majority of which hunters are not the majority.

The majority of residents do not reside where the bulk of federal public lands are, we could sell of 90% of the federal land and all those that go out west a few times in their life would still see the same things and have the same experiences.

 

[CorbLand]

Maybe but hunting isn’t really anything other then a hobby in today’s world and managed by the greedy, residents and nonresidents both are a big part of that.

But if we could sell off some of that land, let states collect property taxes and reduce our debt load and federal aid requirements in reality it would be best for the majority of which hunters are not.

Most states have sold off over 50% of the land they did own and still can’t balance a budget…how would giving them more land to sell solve that?

Like giving an alcoholic a bar.

 

[realunlucky]

Well look at our federal debt and how many states would fall apart financially without federal aid, last I checked that’s a bankruptcy for anyone else.

Everyone was up in arms when GM was bailed out, well 80% of the states are currently on an annual bail out as well.

Where do you live? Let's just reverse Louisiana purchase and sell to highest bidder and pay off our debts. Just eminent domain the entire section, hell it's the only way for the government to afford anything.

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[tdhanses]

Most states have sold off over 50% of the land they did own and still can’t balance a budget…how would giving them more land to sell solve that?

Like giving an alcoholic a bar.

Pretty sure they would tax the land they sell, taxes they don’t currently get to collect.

Yup there will be mismanagement but those of us that don’t live close to big swaths of federal land are tired with all the residents of western states acting like they already own the lands, so I say let’s sell it to the states and let them have it. Also why should 90% of Americans tax dollars fund something they don’t have time to utilize? I’m sure most people would prefer to see the funds allocated to something that directly effects the majority.

 

[CorbLand]

Pretty sure they would tax the land they sell, taxes they don’t currently get to collect.

Yup there will be mismanagement but those of us that don’t live close to big swaths of federal land are tired with all the residents of western states acting like they already own the lands, so I say let’s sell it to the states and let them have it.

They do own the lands, and so do you.

Cutting your nose off to spite the face has always been a winning solution.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Pretty sure they would tax the land they sell, taxes they don’t currently get to collect.

Your statement they don’t get to collect taxes is not correct. Both Forest Service and BLM pay PILT to offset loss of property tax revenue. Sometimes PILT can actually be higher than what property taxes would be due to ag exemptions and such.

Payments in Lieu of Taxes | U.S. Department of the Interior

PILT payments help local governments carry out such vital services as firefighting and police protection, construction of public schools and roads, and search-and-rescue operations

www.doi.gov

 

[tdhanses]

They do own the lands, and so do you.

Cutting your nose of your spite the face has always been a winning solution.

Not really, as a nonresident if all federal lands went private, it would probably be cheaper to hunt and way easier to get a tag.

 

[tdhanses]

This is not correct.

Payments in Lieu of Taxes | U.S. Department of the Interior

PILT payments help local governments carry out such vital services as firefighting and police protection, construction of public schools and roads, and search-and-rescue operations

www.doi.gov

Ok, I still say sell it to the state and let them manage the land and wildlife, we’ll all sit back and watch.

 

[CorbLand]

Not really, as a nonresident if all federal lands went private, it would probably be cheaper to hunt and way easier to get a tag.

Texas is your huckleberry then. No need to come to the west.

 

[realunlucky]

Ok, I still say sell it to the state and let them manage the land and wildlife, we’ll all sit back and watch.

If utah buys all the federal land bank can they self govern?

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[tdhanses]

If utah buys all the federal land bank can they self govern?

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If they own it of course they can, but no PR funding or government aid should be used to prop up any states that hold state land, or I guess no federal funds should be allocated to those lands.

But you know Utah will sell it all to a few billionaires that will bring in investors.

Utah would be better off letting the feds sell it directly and put a limit on acreage each purchaser is allowed before letting it go to investors.

Never been to UT, so either way doesn’t bother me.

 

[4090Sharps]

Any thoughts on whether the House failure to reauthorize funding for the Secure Rural Schools and Community Self-Determination Act is part of the broader effort to push this suit forward?

 

[Jason Snyder]

If they own it of course they can, but no PR funding or government aid should be used to prop up any states that hold state land,

Do you understand what PR money is for?

The Pittman-Robertson Act was passed in 1937 to promote wildlife habitat preservation and restoration.

 

[tdhanses]

Do you understand what PR money is for?

Yup but states need to fund their own wildlife management and most of these funds should go back to the state the transaction was created in, states should receive only their portion from goods sold that created a tax collection for this fund.

I’ve heard it many times, most western states could easily make up any deficiency by slightly raising residents tag fees, now I guess residents might not buy a tag if they don’t have anywhere to hunt but hey they still would have the right to the tag.

Believe a few years ago there was talk of using PR funds for other things, this could tie into a bill to sell federal lands.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Yup but states need to fund their own wildlife management and most of these funds should go back to the state the transaction was created in, states should receive only their portion from goods sold that created a tax collection for this fund.

I’ve heard it many times, most western states could easily make up any deficiency y slightly raising residents tag fees, ow I guess residents might not buy a tag if they don’t have anywhere to hunt but hey they still would have the right to the tag.

We’re clearly going to agree to disagree.

Here is a short read about PR monies for those interested.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF12229#:~:text=Each%20fiscal%20year%2C%20FWS%20allocates,Hunter%20Education%20and%20Safety%20Program.

 

[tdhanses]

We’re clearly going to agree to disagree.

Yeah, I also don’t live next to millions of acres of public land, I’m sure my view would change if I had this vast area to enjoy right outside my driveway.

But the reality is, the way nonresident hunting keeps getting more and more limited, I would be better off if the feds sold the land and I just paid to hunt an area with easy access to tags and the more federal land that becomes private the cheaper and easier it’ll be to hunt for a nonresident.