Unimaginable 120 yard shot on bull

[ganngus]

I got within 70 of a pronghorn in a spot and stalk hunt in 6" of grass. I don't agree. Especially on an animal like an elk.

And I’ve done the same. Also hunted pronghorn in overgrazed pastures that are practically dirt in New Mexico. I’ve taken 10+ animals at over 70 yds with a bow with none wounded. Also taken countless inside of 30yds. If you know your gear and are proficient with it, you can safely kill and animal with a bow at long ranges. At 100yds my arrow is flying at 272fps and hitting with over 70ft/lbs of memetic energy.

People say the same thing about shooting animals at 1000+ yds with a rifle. Just because the everyone can’t do it, doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

 

[streetdoctor]

And I’ve done the same. Also hunted pronghorn in overgrazed pastures that are practically dirt in New Mexico. I’ve taken 10+ animals at over 70 yds with a bow with none wounded. Also taken countless inside of 30yds. If you know your gear and are proficient with it, you can safely kill and animal with a bow at long ranges. At 100yds my arrow is flying at 272fps and hitting with over 70ft/lbs of memetic energy.

People say the same thing about shooting animals at 1000+ yds with a rifle. Just because the everyone can’t do it, doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

it's not a question of whether it can or can't be done. It's is it ethical. There are variables outside of your control, regardless of how dialed you are. I shot a mule deer a couple weeks ago at 60, I'm not opposed to longer shots. It's just not ideal and I try and get closer. I too regularly practice well past 100 and can hit a paper plate nearly 100% of the time in perfect conditions. A slight breeze makes a big difference at 100 though. Even on elk-sized game your impact can shift 6-8".

Can you show your math for your speed claims at 100 yards? Not many hunters I know in the west are shooting an arrow over 300fps. I'm assuming you're also shooting mechanicals? From my own experiments my arrow loses about 5fps consistently every 10 yards. I'm shooting a 452grain arrow out of a 70lb Ventum pro 33 at 29".

 

[streetdoctor]

I guess it's a difference of mindset. I pride myself on being competent with a bow. I'll be the first guy to step back at the range and push distances. For me, hunting situations are not the time for that. I'm also not interested in filming my kills though. If you think ego doesn't play into a shot like that you're being naive. IMO it shows a lack of maturity. Hunting is about honoring the animal by giving it the fastest, cleanest death possible. If the only way you can do that is at 100 yards with a bow you should focus on being a better hunter and sign up for some TAC events to compare &*$% lengths. Or buy a muzzleloader since you're from Texas and undoubtedly hunt Colorado lol. You get to hunt during archery season and take all the 100 yard shots you want.

 

[ganngus]

it's not a question of whether it can or can't be done. It's is it ethical. There are variables outside of your control, regardless of how dialed you are. I shot a mule deer a couple weeks ago at 60, I'm not opposed to longer shots. It's just not ideal and I try and get closer. I too regularly practice well past 100 and can hit a paper plate nearly 100% of the time in perfect conditions. A slight breeze makes a big difference at 100 though. Even on elk-sized game your impact can shift 6-8".

Can you show your math for your speed claims at 100 yards? Not many hunters I know in the west are shooting an arrow over 300fps. I'm assuming you're also shooting mechanicals?

Iron Wills. Never shot a single mechanical in my life. Before iron wills I was shooting slick tricks. And the math is not hard if you know your variables.

This was at 95yds and blew out other side.

 

[streetdoctor]

Iron Wills. Never shot a single mechanical in my life. Before iron wills I was shooting slick tricks. And the math is not hard if you know your variables.

This was at 95yds and blew out other side.

I never said the math was hard. I asked if you could post yours. The bravado is the immaturity I was talking about. Good luck this season. I think I've proven my point.

 

[NYyotekiller]

I agree with you. But would you say the same for a 1000yd rifle shot or 300yd muzzleloader?

Yes.

 

[streetdoctor]

Here's a good article on why it's a bad first shot on an animal and why I don't believe you're shooting 272fps at 100 yards. If you're shooting 80lb limbs with a 400 grain arrow I'll apologize in advance but it still doesn't seem ethical. If it's a follow up shot on a wounded animal, let her fly for sure.

For those who don't want to read the article-

10' of drop, over a second to impact. 260ish FPS at 70lb and 30" draw with a 417gr arrow and a bow that's rated to 360fps IBO

The Science Behind the 100-Yard Bow Shot

You can’t seem to make it through a deer season anymore without hearing of some outdoor TV or YouTube hotshot shooting a big critter with a bow at 100-plus yards. Some guys are indeed skilled enough to consistently hit a 100-yard target. But taking a shot like that on an animal isn't a good...

www.fieldandstream.com

 

[ganngus]

I never said the math was hard. I asked if you could post yours. The bravado is the immaturity I was talking about. Good luck this season. I think I've proven my point.

There is no bravado. I took no hardline stance saying everyone should shoot at long range. I said it can be done, which there is a lot of evidence to prove so. I also wasn’t the one throwing out insinuation that I was shooting a mechanical like it’s an insult.

I personally think it’s unethical for people to buy a bow off rack and shoot arrows out of box from same ones. The same people who don’t do any tuning.

I also think it’s unethical for a person to launch an arrow when they have buck fever and are shaking before the shot. I’ve seen more wounded animals inside of 30yds from people unable to control emotions.

Ethical hunts are subjective. Is it more ethical to put a 338RUM into shoulder of an elk than a .308? Is it more ethical to shoot an animal with a rifle than a bow? Is it more ethical to kill an animal at 40yds with a compound over a traditional bow at 20yds?

Each one or those represents a greater likelihood of a dead animal than before, but no one thinks any of those are any less ethical.

 

[NYyotekiller]

I think that people miss the point of those that disagree with this shot.

It has nothing to do with his abilities and everything to do with an unpredictable animal that he’s shooting at at a very long distance. An animal is not a target… if that’s how you view the animal, as a trophy to be killed at all costs, then I guess you’ll never get the disagreement.

There’s more than a few of us on here that regularly practice out to triple digits and shoot competently. I would like to think that the majority though wouldn’t dream of shooting that far at a living target.

 

[streetdoctor]

There is no bravado. I took no hardline stance saying everyone should shoot at long range. I said it can be done, which there is a lot of evidence to prove so. I also wasn’t the one throwing out insinuation that I was shooting a mechanical like it’s an insult.

I personally think it’s unethical for people to buy a bow off rack and shoot arrows out of box from same ones. The same people who don’t do any tuning.

I also think it’s unethical for a person to launch an arrow when they have buck fever and are shaking before the shot. I’ve seen more wounded animals inside of 30yds from people unable to control emotions.

Ethical hunts are subjective. Is it more ethical to put a 338RUM into shoulder of an elk than a .308? Is it more ethical to shoot an animal with a rifle than a bow? Is it more ethical to kill an animal at 40yds with a compound over a traditional bow at 20yds?

Each one or those represents a greater likelihood of a dead animal than before, but no one thinks any of those are any less ethical.

FWIW I wasn't insinuating that shooting a mechanical is bad. I'm shooting a combination of 1.5" SEVR's this year and 3 blade cut throats. But a fixed blade is going to be impacted by the wind much more than a mechanical at long distances.

 

[KsRancher]

I have no problem with Tim taking that shot. I would be all over that shot IF I had his ability. I don't, so I don't take it. My limit is half that distance.

I have a 4th season elk tag. I will take a shot at 600yds (under right conditions) if that's what's presented and not a reasonable chance to get close.

 

[ganngus]

Here's a good article on why it's a bad first shot on an animal and why I don't believe you're shooting 272fps at 100 yards. If you're shooting 80lb limbs with a 400 grain arrow I'll apologize in advance but it still doesn't seem ethical. If it's a follow up shot on a wounded animal, let her fly for sure.

For those who don't want to read the article-

10' of drop, over a second to impact. 260ish FPS at 70lb and 30" draw with a 417gr arrow and a bow that's rated to 360fps IBO

The Science Behind the 100-Yard Bow Shot

You can’t seem to make it through a deer season anymore without hearing of some outdoor TV or YouTube hotshot shooting a big critter with a bow at 100-plus yards. Some guys are indeed skilled enough to consistently hit a 100-yard target. But taking a shot like that on an animal isn't a good...

www.fieldandstream.com

Those may be results for the tester. However, I would argue using this as definitive proof is flawed. There is no discussion of the arrow diameter, the fletching configuration, the size of the vanes, or length of the arrow. I don’t know all of the specifications for his arrows. However, unless I’m mistaken, they are all 5mm arrows. Surface area is one of the largest determinations of the bleeding of energy. A 5mm arrow is going to experience more air resistance than a 4mm arrow, which I shoot.

Like with a lot of hunting information online and in magazines, people create tests which they seek to apply universally that does not hold up to thorough scientific analysis as it does not touch on any of the physics that are actually at play.

 

[TxxAgg]

Some of yall sound the way rifle hunters used to dog bowhunters before they knew any better.

 

[Billy Goat]

I agree with you. But would you say the same for a 1000yd rifle shot or 300yd muzzleloader?

I actually see that differently, a 1000 yards a lot of game animals won't likely spook to a little bit of your movement. Just the bow moving at the shot is enough to spook many species at 100 yards. There's also inherently more movement with a bow than with a rifle. So you are making movements that can illicit a reaction one way, whereas a rifle at 1k you aren't.

I don't at all have the skill set to shoot game @ 1k with a rifle, I'm about half that. I do have the ability with archery equipment to shoot animals in excess of 100 yards, however in my experience I have changed my line of thinking on it.


Take a bow that is shooting 300 fps, without any velocity loss you are already at a second from time of release to impact at 100. That's a lot of reaction time for some species, enough for them to be feet away from where they were.

 

[Billy Goat]

Those may be results for the tester. However, I would argue using this as definitive proof is flawed. There is no discussion of the arrow diameter, the fletching configuration, the size of the vanes, or length of the arrow. I don’t know all of the specifications for his arrows. However, unless I’m mistaken, they are all 5mm arrows. Surface area is one of the largest determinations of the bleeding of energy. A 5mm arrow is going to experience more air resistance than a 4mm arrow, which I shoot.

Like with a lot of hunting information online and in magazines, people create tests which they seek to apply universally that does not hold up to thorough scientific analysis as it does not touch on any of the physics that are actually at play.

Actually it's not arrow diameter. The difference from 6.5-5-4mm is pretty small. The bigger factors are drag from your fletching and drag from the broadhead you choose.

 

[Billy Goat]

Here's a good article on why it's a bad first shot on an animal and why I don't believe you're shooting 272fps at 100 yards. If you're shooting 80lb limbs with a 400 grain arrow I'll apologize in advance but it still doesn't seem ethical. If it's a follow up shot on a wounded animal, let her fly for sure.

For those who don't want to read the article-

10' of drop, over a second to impact. 260ish FPS at 70lb and 30" draw with a 417gr arrow and a bow that's rated to 360fps IBO

The Science Behind the 100-Yard Bow Shot

You can’t seem to make it through a deer season anymore without hearing of some outdoor TV or YouTube hotshot shooting a big critter with a bow at 100-plus yards. Some guys are indeed skilled enough to consistently hit a 100-yard target. But taking a shot like that on an animal isn't a good...

www.fieldandstream.com

Arrow weight: 391.5 grains. 3' velocity - 313.7 fps, 65 yard velocity - 280.1 fps


463.4 grains, 3' velocity - 290.5 fps, 65 yard velocity - 263 fps.


482 grain arrow, 3' velocity - 285.4 fps, 65 yard velocity - 259.3 fps.


Those are numbers from one of my bows a few years ago. Not calculated but actually shot thru a chrono with a shooting machine. At best I still lost 25 fps by 65 yards.

 

[ganngus]

Actually it's not arrow diameter. The difference from 6.5-5-4mm is pretty small. The bigger factors are drag from your fletching and drag from the broadhead you choose.

I agree. All of the variables have a cumulative effect.

 

[Billy Goat]

I agree. All of the variables have a cumulative effect.

Yes.

Outdoor archers will use micros because they have already exhausted all other avenues of reduced drag.

Just on a hunting setup once you have a broadhead on the front, you need to have a certain amount of drag on the back.

Just you said arrow diameter is one of the largest factors in an arrow bleeding energy, and I don't think this is correct for a hunting setup.

Number 1 is mass
Number 2 is generally fletching, but can be Number 1.

Then broadhead drag.

Shaft diameter is pretty far down on its impact.

 

[ganngus]

Yes.

Outdoor archers will use micros because they have already exhausted all other avenues of reduced drag.

Just on a hunting setup once you have a broadhead on the front, you need to have a certain amount of drag on the back.

Just you said arrow diameter is one of the largest factors in an arrow bleeding energy, and I don't think this is correct for a hunting setup.

Number 1 is mass
Number 2 is generally fletching, but can be Number 1.

Then broadhead drag.

Shaft diameter is pretty far down on its impact.

I agree I used poor verbiage. Gravity is a constant. If shooting same bow, the forces it imparts are constant. You can take two arrows that are the same mass. If they arrows have different surface areas, their flight performances will be different. Generally speaking, Greater surface area results in greater drag and greater loss of energy.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Mr. Wells has a special set of skills.