UM/S2H/Suppressors/Scopes and More!

[Formidilosus]

I have no doubt that suppressed shots spook deer less frequently than unsuppressed shots, but there seem to be some variables other than just decibels/tone that contribute to how deer react...otherwise they would run every time when hearing an unsuppressed shot.

Yea there is variability. Which is why it takes large data sets and paying attention to see it. When you are trying to kill an entire deer herd in a soybean field, or fill 10+ tags in a single elk herd- the difference in how the animals behave between bare muzzle, muzzle brake, and suppressed are drastic. It’s less drastic between different suppressors- but differences are there if enough samples are gathered and paid attention to.

Again- I don’t care if you, or anyone else buys this can. It isn’t my company. I and Ryan wanted a certain can type, sound, and tone based on our experience.

 

[Formidilosus]

I have found singles or doubles react less. Guessing that in a large groups if ANY deer reacts all do and the larger the group the more likely it is. Limited sample size for me though, all not supressed

Very much so. Deer are matriarchal. If you drop the matriarch at impact- not a twitch; generally the herd doesn’t react much- they kind of kill about until another doe starts to take charge and leave. If you can spot her and drop her on the spot, it starts over. So one and so forth. I have killed entire deer herds without them leaving the field doing that.

This year hunting elk with Ryan Avery and his uncle, I killed the matriarch in the timber at about 30 yards. The herd ran out to about 450y and milled about looking back at them for 5-10 minutes. Then moved out to about 900 yards and stood around for 10’ish minutes again. They didn’t want to leave. They eventually wondered out into a cut.

 

[Ryan Avery]

These discussions are enjoyable. You can own multiple suppressors that have similar decibel levels but produce very different sounds. For instance, consider the Ultra 7 and the Raptor 8 Stack (No Reflex). While both are comparable in decibels, most people who have heard them prefer the AB. I don't own any suppressor companies, but when asked to assist in designing one, I want it to be as short as possible in front of the muzzle, hearing safe, and produce a hollow sound. I don't think Form and I are alone in wanting a can like this.

 

[realunlucky]

These discussions are enjoyable. You can own multiple suppressors that have similar decibel levels but produce very different sounds. For instance, consider the Ultra 7 and the Raptor 8 Stack (No Reflex). While both are comparable in decibels, most people who have heard them prefer the AB. I don't own any suppressor companies, but when asked to assist in designing one, I want it to be as short as possible in front of the muzzle, hearing safe, and produce a hollow sound. I don't think Form and I are alone in wanting a can like this.

My take away from this whole discussion is does really it matter and if so is it even quantifiable?

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[HighUintas]

These discussions are enjoyable. You can own multiple suppressors that have similar decibel levels but produce very different sounds. For instance, consider the Ultra 7 and the Raptor 8 Stack (No Reflex). While both are comparable in decibels, most people who have heard them prefer the AB. I don't own any suppressor companies, but when asked to assist in designing one, I want it to be as short as possible in front of the muzzle, hearing safe, and produce a hollow sound. I don't think Form and I are alone in wanting a can like this.

I agree on the "want", potentially with the exception of the tone/hollow sound.

I doubt I'll have a need to be able to take multiple shots within a herd without spooking them. It's possible I'll hunt with a partner or family member in the future and we'll want to try to double up, but then that's just an excuse to buy another can

So how it sounds to my ear and the elk or deers ear doesn't really matter that much to me. What I care most about are minimized length in front of barrel, weight, and dB reduction. I have, at best maybe 90* of the possible 210* of human field of view. So protecting my senses is now a huge priority for me. That's just me though.

I'll no doubt be looking at getting one of these. I was already planning another can purchase this year and it was sort between the nomad ti xc and a raptor 8 with a 5" reflex.

Side note question to you and @Formidilosus ... Does the suppressor cover make much difference in that perceived tone? I was thinking that one of those silicone sleeve covers might deaden the sound of the scythe a bit.

 

[Ryan Avery]

My take away from this whole discussion is does really it matter and if so is it even quantifiable?

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All of the sound-measuring experiments out there would say yes... But in the end, it's up to the individual, but I am going to get exactly what I want.

 

[realunlucky]

@Ryan Avery I have no doubt you have extensive exposure to more suppressors than I ever will.

Honestly since I don't know the variations of tones emitted it's hard to form an opinion one way or another.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with and how it compares to some of the few suppressor tones I can relate to.

 

[Clarktar]

Send suppressor. Keep that bag away from me.

 

[wind gypsy]

I think this thread is just more of an "overview" of what's happening with UM. My thoughts were, going into the weeds on suppressor "tone" in this particular thread isn't the correct place. Maybe wrongly so.

Everything is going exactly as expected.

 

[wysongdog]

Ok how bout more info on this scope?

 

[prm]

Ok how bout more info on this scope?

There is another thread for that!

 

[Dave0317]

More and more and more crap being force fed to the masses. Your stock doesn’t have enough negative comb. Your caliber is too big. Your scope didn’t pass a “drop test”. You’re can doesn’t have the best tone. AND come to our forum and we’ll tell you all about what you need!!!

I’m impressed this is the way they’ve chosen to monetize this forum. It’s def a crafty way to have done it, but I would personally rather have paid a fee than get more consumerism crap force down my throat.

https://shoot2hunt.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/S2H-Marketing-Booklet-1.pdf

They need to step up their game.

I’ve been on this forum for years, mostly lurking the Archery, trad archery, and elk sections, occasionally firearms. Somehow I didn’t know what a Rokstock was until late last year when I was researching rifles more so I could buy a youth gun.

Ended up enjoying the content I clicked on and learned a good bit. Never once felt forced to believe any particular thing. It’s good to read and then exercise your own judgment and logic to decide if something can benefit you or not. If not, it’s very easy to not buy it, not read it, don’t shoot the rifle drill, etc.

 

[omicron1792]

I shot my elk while a large herd was in a draw. Used a Raptor 8 with 5” reflex. None of the other elk moved. I had to wait over 30 minutes for the last elk to clear out before I could go get my elk.

I do agree different cans have different tones. Never really thought how it might affect the animals.

Here is a question. What will this can accomplish over the AB raptor?

 

[HandgunHTR]

Ok, I guess I missed all the good stuff already, but after reading through the responses in regards to "tone" and whatnot, I figured I would inject a bit of actual science to the discussion as it seems that some don't have a firm understanding of how sound works.

First, sound travels in a wave. How "tall" the wave is determines it's decibel reading, or "loudness". How close the waves are together determines it's frequency, or "tone". Everyone's ears interpret these frequencies a little bit differently based on multiple factors. For example, I have lost about 45% of my mid to high range frequency in my left ear. Because of this, if someone scrapes their nails down a chalkboard and I have my right ear plugged, all I hear is the dull scraping sound, not the high pitched squeal that puts most people on edge.
Second, because sound travels in a wave, air density will affect how quickly that sound travels. Cold, dense, air will have a faster speed of sound than hot, dry air. This matters when hunting.
Finally, frequency can be disrupted by other things. As sound passes through things like tree branches, leaves, grass, even dust clouds, the frequency of the sound can be disrupted such that the "tone" changes. It will almost always correspond with a lower decibel as well. A good example of this can be demonstrated using ear plugs or muffs. If you put two different types of ear plugs in, with the same NRR, you may hear the same loud sound differently. Same goes for muffs of the same NRR. If they use a different shell material, or cup foam, the sound will be reduced by the same amount, but will actually sound different to the user.

Now that that is established, I cannot say one way or another that having a suppressor with a lower frequency sound will have less of an effect on game. I have come to the conclusion that about the time I have figured a certain group of animals out, I start running into a bunch that challenge my thinking.
What I do know is that animals do get conditioned to certain sounds (like gunshots) and will react to them accordingly. So, the first step of using a suppressor will usually result in less animals spooking at the shot, which I have witnessed first hand. Does the tone of the suppressor have an effect on whether animals spook or not? Not sure. Does it affect the users experience? Absolutely. That is why I prefer suppressors with lower tones. That leads to a more pleasurable shooting experience, and that leads to shooting more, which leads to better in-field performance. So, for me, having a suppressor with a lower tone is worth spending my money on.

 

[Odd1out]

There is another thread for that!

Whats the thread called?

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[prm]

Whats the thread called?

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That would be helpful…

Would you buy this scope?

Scope specs: FFP 3-12x40 to 3-12x44mm Consistently holds zero through 3-foot drops and 3,000 rounds of constant use. The reticle is specially designed for 25 to 600 yards, with bold outer posts and correct center aiming references. Zero Stop Low profile top turret. Capped windage. Large...

rokslide.com

 

[Ucsdryder]

Yea there is variability. Which is why it takes large data sets and paying attention to see it. When you are trying to kill an entire deer herd in a soybean field, or fill 10+ tags in a single elk herd- the difference in how the animals behave between bare muzzle, muzzle brake, and suppressed are drastic. It’s less drastic between different suppressors- but differences are there if enough samples are gathered and paid attention to.

Again- I don’t care if you, or anyone else buys this can. It isn’t my company. I and Ryan wanted a certain can type, sound, and tone based on our experience.

Do you have a video of an entire herd of elk not reacting to a suppressor when shooting 10 out of the same herd?

 

[rbutcher1234]

I thought I was crazy for trying to fit my OPS 12th to my chopped tikka for when I don’t want to carry my mk12……

Anybody done this? Hadn’t looked into it too much.

 

[JGRaider]

I don't own any suppressor companies, but when asked to assist in designing one, I want it to be as short as possible in front of the muzzle, hearing safe, and produce a hollow sound. I don't think Form and I are alone in wanting a can like this.

I'm in this camp as well. We cull a bunch of whitetails every year, and I've noticed there's really no absolutes as to how game reacts to bullets, sounds etc. The biggest variable I've noticed is the wind direction, which obviously affects the sound the animals hear and react to.

 

[HighUintas]

I shot my elk while a large herd was in a draw. Used a Raptor 8 with 5” reflex. None of the other elk moved. I had to wait over 30 minutes for the last elk to clear out before I could go get my elk.

I do agree different cans have different tones. Never really thought how it might affect the animals.

Here is a question. What will this can accomplish over the AB raptor?

Do you know what the weight of your raptor 8 with 5-in reflex is?