ULUL Stainless/Portless 6x45 16" AR15 Barrel Group Buy NOW CLOSED

[KyleR1985]

I got a call back from Stu.

The tone changed quite a bit from the first conversation. Standby

 

[KyleR1985]

FWIW, PT&G's current drawing of their 6x45 reamer is yours, not something with larger dimensions. Don't know if they made something different for Satern or if there was some other issue with the chambering process if that's the issue.

https://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/6-x-45mm-6x223-Remington-SAAMI-Chamber-Reamer_p_114481.html

Yes. That’s correct.

Turns out my ignorance and our busted first attempt at a stub job on the handi may have helped figure out the issue

 

[PistolPete]

Hey all, just heard from Stu at Satern:

Good afternoon Peter, I just got off the phone with Kyle. He brought me some information today and I showed the boss, it turns out there has been a revision on the 6x45 print with Saami that we were unaware of. So we have been running a chamber reamer that was made to the original print. Thanks to Kyle, he sent me a print of the reamer he bought and had a barrel fixed with. I'm holding on to the remaining barrels to see if we can fix them with an Alpha reamer when we get it. I can assure you we will take care of this and you all won't be left out there flapping in the wind. If you want to reach out to your crew and let them know, that would be great!Looking forward to having this resolved and everybody walking away happy.

Thanks, Kyle!

 

[Jesseb]

Hey all, just heard from Stu at Satern:

Good afternoon Peter, I just got off the phone with Kyle. He brought me some information today and I showed the boss, it turns out there has been a revision on the 6x45 print with Saami that we were unaware of. So we have been running a chamber reamer that was made to the original print. Thanks to Kyle, he sent me a print of the reamer he bought and had a barrel fixed with. I'm holding on to the remaining barrels to see if we can fix them with an Alpha reamer when we get it. I can assure you we will take care of this and you all won't be left out there flapping in the wind. If you want to reach out to your crew and let them know, that would be great!Looking forward to having this resolved and everybody walking away happy.

Thanks, Kyle!

Wow, pleasantly surprised! Hope a new reamer fixes it. Unfortunately I just finished loading up more rounds to go give it another go with the load posted earlier. 87 vmax over 24.2 Tac @ 2.280”. Also loaded 5 @ 2.375” (.020” jump) and 5 @ 2.280” over 24.2 of 8208xbr. I guess I could hold onto them for break in and testing of a new replacement barrel should they send me one.

 

[Thegman]

Hey all, just heard from Stu at Satern:

Good afternoon Peter, I just got off the phone with Kyle. He brought me some information today and I showed the boss, it turns out there has been a revision on the 6x45 print with Saami that we were unaware of. So we have been running a chamber reamer that was made to the original print. Thanks to Kyle, he sent me a print of the reamer he bought and had a barrel fixed with. I'm holding on to the remaining barrels to see if we can fix them with an Alpha reamer when we get it. I can assure you we will take care of this and you all won't be left out there flapping in the wind. If you want to reach out to your crew and let them know, that would be great!Looking forward to having this resolved and everybody walking away happy.

Thanks, Kyle!

Sounds like progress, but I'm not seeing how a smaller reamer is going to fix an oversize chamber on an already finished barrel. I wouldn't think there would be enough shoulder length and barrel length left to re-chamber to smaller dimensions. I'd think a smaller reamer would have to go a neck length deeper to fix that part. OTOH, I'm not a barrel maker, so there is that...

 

[Jesseb]

These barrels can not be re-chambered. They would have to replace the barrels.

 

[robtattoo]

These barrels can not be re-chambered. They would have to replace the barrels.

Kinda regretting telling Deb I wouldn't send mine back now.

I tried 2 other powders today, just to check velocity.

24.1gr IMR4895 = 2277 (3 shot average)
24.5 Norma 202 (4064 equiv) = 2389 (3 shot average)
No pressure signs at all. The Norma looks promising, maybe around 26gr (which would be about right, since it's discontinued )

 

[ezwy]

AR bolts absolutely vary a little, but this explanation from X-Caliber doesn't quite make sense. If the Solo bolt left too little headspace to chamber a fully sized case, which is possible, the case shoulder would still prevent it from running a bullet into the lands(??). That's almost solely a function of bullet seating depth.

I would agree with you that the shoulder should have been what hit. But it was Like the top of the neck was hitting a rifling. It almost seemed more like a concentricity problem….. but a different bolt fixed it.

 

[gbflyer]

Here is my reamer print from a couple years ago:View attachment 6x45 std.pdf
I would be surprised if a slight difference in chamber spec is causing big groups. That is normally an inconsistent groove diameter throughout the length of the barrel.

 

[Jesseb]

Here is my reamer print from a couple years ago:View attachment 954382
I would be surprised if a slight difference in chamber spec is causing big groups. That is normally an inconsistent groove diameter throughout the length of the barrel.

Not saying you are wrong, entirely possible. But, here is my theory. A combination of an excessively large neck and long freebore means that gases are likely getting out and around the bullet and thus in front of it before it engages the rifling which leads to the lackluster velocity we are seeing and the inaccuracy. The fact that I can go pretty far over max loads without pressure signs would also support this. I do not think that anyone after accuracy wants neck growth in the .008-.010” range. AND, if I load even the vmax to standard AR coal of 2.260” I would have .135” jump. Tmk would be .320”!! Loading the vmax to .010” jump didn’t help however.

Now with that said, before my last outing I cleaned the barrel with a copper fouling remover. After a thorough cleaning I noticed I could see what appeared to be slight copper fouling on the edges of the rifling near the muzzle. I was already committed to heading out to try some new loads after getting my Redding type S bushing die and figured I was maybe headed in the right direction so I figured it at least had to be better than before. The damn thing shot worse than ever!

The only other explanation would be that the stainless they use is not as good as what Shaw is using and therefore needs to be of thicker wall to yield similar performance. In theory, wall thickness kept the same, the larger the diameter the stiffer so that shouldn’t be it, but perhaps they simply do not have the quality of SS that Shaw does? I tried waiting 3-4 minutes between shots with the 87 vmax the other day and got the same terrible results. I mean, even the cheap BCA pencil barrels are known to be better than 2moa shooters!

Of special interest, most of my groups have been mostly vertical stringing in the 2-4” range, even with good es and sd numbers. Not sure what to think of that.

 

[KyleR1985]

Here is my reamer print from a couple years ago:View attachment 954382
I would be surprised if a slight difference in chamber spec is causing big groups. That is normally an inconsistent groove diameter throughout the length of the barrel.

The reamer you’re using has an even tighter neck than mine (.270, +.001tolerance versus (.270+.003tolerance).

And what may be a shorter “distance to lands” than mine by way of a shorter leade.

I would expect the reamer you have to produce far better accuracy results than whatever Satern was using, and probably better than my new PTG reamer.






The unanswered question is “how did Satern’s 6x45 barrels of the past shoot with what we should assume are sub 85gr bullets, in AR mag length from AR’s?”

I suspect if they shot poorly, there’d at least be some internet evidence of it. I haven’t found it, and Satern hasn’t gotten that feedback.

This may mean that the first run of barrels aren’t worthless. The reamer didn’t go bad. The chamber is to spec. It’s just a “not ideal” spec.




Sounds like they’re going to straighten it out with a tighter neck dimension and shorter freebore.

 

[ezwy]

X caliber jgs reamer just for reference.