Ultralight Ultralight Rifles

[packgoatguy]

For me I want a mid to long range rifle as light as I can go without going full custom bolt action.
Solo 223 Shaw with AAC 77 TMK going 2565 fos maxes at about 375 yards.
Solo 223 Shaw with reloads, black hills, or stage 1 77 TMK at 2750 fps maxes at about 450 yards.
BCA 6 ARC with Hornady 108 ELDM factory going 2483 fps in my barrel takes you to 525 or just shy.

I think it’s time to get some dies and work up a load for the ARC to see if 600 yard terminal range can be achieved.
My 6 ARC is about 6 pounds even with SWFA 3-9. I’ll take a 6 pound 500 plus yard capable rifle all day. Goal achieved for me.

Now when I want to pack a rifle for just in case, the solo/shaw 223 with folding stock will take a ride.

What is your minimum target impact velocity? My data tells me a 77tmk at 2750mv gets to 560 yards before it drops below 1800fps, and at least according to Form over in the 223 thread... the 77tmk will still expand well even below 1800fps, but 1800 is a good threshold.

If your threshold is 2000fps, I get that out to about 430 yards with the 77tmk.

 

[Thegman]

The solo/shaw 223 is hammering with 77 TMK loaded over AR Comp. It nearly duplicates the AAC velocity (gain of 6 fps) but consistency of accuracy is much better.
15 fps ES.
5 shots, paper grids are 1/4”, target grids are 1” with small dots at half inch increments.
View attachment 847037

I also shot a load over Lever that hit 2700 fps average and still has room to go up on pressure. It shoots about an inch for 5 shots with 70 fps ES. I’ll take it higher and see if it tightens up accuracy and ES. Would be nice to hit 2750 fos

I very seldom take anything past 300 yards, so the 223 gets me that far no sweat, 6x45 would as well. Yeah, getting 2,700+ with 77TMKs should be doable. I have several loads that run around 2,700 -2,720 pretty easily.

According to my Strelok, 2,720 hits 1,800 at 470 yards with the TMK. If you could get the 75ELDM to work, it could probably stay above 1,800 fps out to 550 as they also seem to be able to be pushed faster than the TMK and have a better BC.

Now if I could find a TMK load that shoots as well as yours does!...my barrel may not shoot the 77TMKs as well. Seems to do better with the 73 ELD-M so far. Those have been pretty easy to load for.

 

[Thegman]

What is your minimum target impact velocity? My data tells me a 77tmk at 2750mv gets to 560 yards before it drops below 1800fps, and at least according to Form over in the 223 thread... the 77tmk will still expand well even below 1800fps, but 1800 is a good threshold.

If your threshold is 2000fps, I get that out to about 430 yards with the 77tmk.

What are you using for your TMK calculations? Strelok shows about 90 yards less than what you're getting. Would be a bonus if that was the case!

 

[packgoatguy]

What are you using for your TMK calculations? Strelok shows about 90 yards less than what you're getting. Would be a bonus if that was the case!

I'm at about 4800 ft.

This dope has held true out to about 720 yards. At 35 degrees or so, 80 clicks was an inch or two high, 79 clicks was an inch or two low.

 

[fishdart]

What is your minimum target impact velocity? My data tells me a 77tmk at 2750mv gets to 560 yards before it drops below 1800fps, and at least according to Form over in the 223 thread... the 77tmk will still expand well even below 1800fps, but 1800 is a good threshold.

If your threshold is 2000fps, I get that out to about 430 yards with the 77tmk.

What does a 10 mph cross wind comparison look like between the 77gr .223 and the 108 6mmARC at say 400 yards? I don't have a calculator and am curious.

 

[doverpack12]

What is your minimum target impact velocity? My data tells me a 77tmk at 2750mv gets to 560 yards before it drops below 1800fps, and at least according to Form over in the 223 thread... the 77tmk will still expand well even below 1800fps, but 1800 is a good threshold.

If your threshold is 2000fps, I get that out to about 430 yards with the 77tmk.

Threshold is 1800 fps with the understanding I can push that some and know a little harder impact will initiate expansion or help initiate.

My DA for actual hunting conditions or in the mountains will lead to additional distance. The range is in the river bottom so generally less distance but I have the actual collected data while shooting.

I’m using the Sierra published stepped bc. .372 above 3000, .362 to 1700, and .343 to 0

 

[doverpack12]

What does a 10 mph cross wind comparison look like between the 77gr .223 and the 108 6mmARC at say 400 yards? I don't have a calculator and am curious.

At 400 yards with yesterday’s DA of 3650 and 55 degrees. 10 mph wing at 270 degrees
18.5” drift for AAC 77 TMK in the 223 (1763 fps at 400)

12.5” drift for 6 ARC factory 108 ELDM (1934 fps at 400)

 

[fishdart]

At 400 yards with yesterday’s DA of 3650 and 55 degrees. 10 mph wing at 270 degrees
18.5” drift for AAC 77 TMK in the 223 (1763 fps at 400)

12.5” drift for 6 ARC factory 108 ELDM (1934 fps at 400)

That's worth something from my perspective.

Thanks for the data points

 

[The Guide]

What does a 10 mph cross wind comparison look like between the 77gr .223 and the 108 6mmARC at say 400 yards? I don't have a calculator and am curious.

With my guns you are at the following:

BH 77tmk MV 2758 is to 1957 fps and 14.4" drift
AAC 77tmk MV 2714 is to 1921fps and 14.8" drift
103 ELDX MV 2614 is to 1969 fps and 12.4" drift
108 ELDM MV 2625 is to 2005 fps and 11.7" drift

All factory ammo from Howa Mini Action rifles using current conditions at my location in Sidney Montana with a 10 mph 90⁰ wind at 400 yards. The 103 ELDX load is super slow. Original lot was 110 fps faster but I bought a case on sale and got a very slow lot.

Jay

 

[Thegman]

I'm at about 4800 ft.

This dope has held true out to about 720 yards. At 35 degrees or so, 80 clicks was an inch or two high, 79 clicks was an inch or two low.

That's a pretty big difference from the "generic" Strelok data. That's good to know. I'm not usually hunting as high as you are, but I imagine I have more impact velocity than my Strelok data suggests.

 

[packgoatguy]

What does a 10 mph cross wind comparison look like between the 77gr .223 and the 108 6mmARC at say 400 yards? I don't have a calculator and am curious.

Just going off of the aforementioned 108eld MV of 2483 (I actually used 2488) and the 2750fps I get from the 77tmk.

11 vs 13 inches drift

108eld drops below 1800fps at 520 yards
77tmk drops below 1800fps at 548 yards

Looks like at my elevation, I would need a muzzle velocity of 2525fps in a 108eld to match the 77tmk at 2750mv (assuming a target 1800fps terminal velocity at 550 yards)

By comparison, a 95TMK would need an MV of 2600fps to match the 108eld at 2525mv, and the 77tmk at 2750mv.

These comparisons are all assuming a 16 inch AR15 barrel with a suppressor.

 

[packgoatguy]

Threshold is 1800 fps with the understanding I can push that some and know a little harder impact will initiate expansion or help initiate.

My DA for actual hunting conditions or in the mountains will lead to additional distance. The range is in the river bottom so generally less distance but I have the actual collected data while shooting.

I’m using the Sierra published stepped bc. .372 above 3000, .362 to 1700, and .343 to 0

Where are you getting the .372bc?

Sierra's website shows .420bc at 2400fps and above for the 77tmk

 

[Te Hopo]

What does a 10 mph cross wind comparison look like between the 77gr .223 and the 108 6mmARC at say 400 yards? I don't have a calculator and am curious.

This is not mine, just something I saw and saved a while back

 

[packgoatguy]

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[packgoatguy]

This is not mine, just something I saw and saved a while back
View attachment 847323

I'll point out that the stated hypothetical MV on that chart is 150fps slower than the actual MV I get out of a 77tmk 223rem 16 inch barrel.

But it begs the question... it appears that the factory 108eld 6arc is between 2480 and 2510fps mv in a 16 inch Barrel. What velocities are handloaders getting from 16 inch AR15 barrels?