Truth on antlers

[lsuTigahs]

Informative thread so far, best thing I have ever seen for my own knowledge was the MSU studies showing you can’t cull the genetics from a wild deer herd. You have what you have, only thing that helps them is age.

 

[K9kodi]

The only difference I can see from Mule Deer to Whitetails would be the genetic component to antlers. Best estimate in whitetails is that the mother contributes somewhere around 75% of the genetic component for antlers to her male offspring. The mother's genetics appears to control the general shape of the rack. What the father contributes isn't well understood, because those who have figured it out quickly go into the breeder buck business and don't discuss their findings!

I’ve heard the same.

 

[K9kodi]

Informative thread so far, best thing I have ever seen for my own knowledge was the MSU studies showing you can’t cull the genetics from a wild deer herd. You have what you have, only thing that helps them is age.

Im not upset at all with that. Not trying to improve genetics really, I was curious about the shape and numbers of some of the deer I posted and was inquiring about “will this 6, always be 6, just a bigger 6, or do they get more points at that age”

 

[Skerhunter]

Age is king, nutrition and genetics of course play, but you have no control or idea of true genetics in a wild deer herd!

On some land I managed we had a 3 yr old in the 170s, I put him on the no fly zone thinking here is our 200 inch plus deer in the near future, he had doubles on all his points and was really impressive, one of the land owners passed him that year.

We hunted him hard for a few seasons after and he never made it over 185 gross, we had the sheds, he lost all of his doubled points after his third year, for sure the same buck as he had very distinct heavy inward pointing brow tines and the same habits each year!

The owner missed him when he was 5 and in the mid 180s, I left that job and to my knowledge they never killed the deer, they were on him the year after but that was the last I spoke with them and he was basically the same size.

Very cool observation/story! Did you ever get a 200” deer on that property?

 

[squirrel]

I Have an interesting case study. Large property (not mine) about 30 yrs of me being able to hunt it. Owners do not like deer. 30 year ago the owners had a pickup bed or so of 100-125" deer killed every fall by invited hunters. Years of me discreetly whining about this took it down to about zero bucks killed. Suddenly a family member got "into" deer, put out mineral for about 5-6 years. Deer went nuts over it digging holes 4' deep. Owner lost interest in deer and they went back to being vermin. Mineral dumps stopped.

Little kids grew up and now they are "into deer". But only "huge" deer. I have pounded the lesson home on what happened during the 5-6 years of mineral being made available to the local deer. I have bought mineral for them to put it out for the deer. They simply will not do it. When I am there and have dumped mineral the excavation resumes immediately but I am simply too far away to keep up with replacing the mineral.

Genetics obviously do not change. For 30 years longevity has been good. Although even the best property has neighbours and poachers. The property has good food, and for the purpose of this story it has been consistent. Point being the one variable was 5-6 years of mineral dumps.

3 of the "big five" came from that time window. The other two of the 5 came from before the 30 yr time frame when Ive been there to witness it.

I'm guessing that $500/year would keep mineral on the ground all year. You can literally dump it off the back of the ATV. The laziness of the modern hunter is amazing to me.

Here is the "wall". Of course there have been a number of 150-170's that didn't make the cut to make it onto the wall.

 

[dtrkyman]

Very cool observation/story! Did you ever get a 200” deer on that property?

194 gross was the biggest. 200 inch deer are a thing in those parts, central Illinois.

Just don't go by outfitter scoring...lol

 

[Yung6ix]

I Have an interesting case study. Large property (not mine) about 30 yrs of me being able to hunt it. Owners do not like deer. 30 year ago the owners had a pickup bed or so of 100-125" deer killed every fall by invited hunters. Years of me discreetly whining about this took it down to about zero bucks killed. Suddenly a family member got "into" deer, put out mineral for about 5-6 years. Deer went nuts over it digging holes 4' deep. Owner lost interest in deer and they went back to being vermin. Mineral dumps stopped.

Little kids grew up and now they are "into deer". But only "huge" deer. I have pounded the lesson home on what happened during the 5-6 years of mineral being made available to the local deer. I have bought mineral for them to put it out for the deer. They simply will not do it. When I am there and have dumped mineral the excavation resumes immediately but I am simply too far away to keep up with replacing the mineral.

Genetics obviously do not change. For 30 years longevity has been good. Although even the best property has neighbours and poachers. The property has good food, and for the purpose of this story it has been consistent. Point being the one variable was 5-6 years of mineral dumps.

3 of the "big five" came from that time window. The other two of the 5 came from before the 30 yr time frame when Ive been there to witness it.

I'm guessing that $500/year would keep mineral on the ground all year. You can literally dump it off the back of the ATV. The laziness of the modern hunter is amazing to me.

Here is the "wall". Of course there have been a number of 150-170's that didn't make the cut to make it onto the wall.View attachment 836135

That's a very impressive collection you got there.

 

[squirrel]

That's a very impressive collection you got there.

Not mine, its the ranches'. Rule has always been if you kill the new "biggest" it stays there. No exceptions. A rule I can live with as even a bad day on this ranch is unbelievably good.

On a sad note those heads are now in a pile being chewed on by mice. Wife put her foot down and no more deer in HER house...

That big one is 199-7/8" GNT. I about cried when I saw they got yanked down.

 

[K9kodi]

I’m fairly certain the the shape and points on my land will be genetically controlled. I have a feeling more nutrients or supplemental nutrients will

1) improve doe health before impregnation proving healthier, genetically stronger/solid bucks

And

2) genetics being decided already, you can add/supplement nutrients and get bigger deer, but only bigger along the genetic scale they already have. If they are destined to only be a 6, you’ll just give them the ability to be a bigger 6, as an example.

The weightlifter who is strong and genetically has good healthy muscle mass, will produce offspring with those genetics, but I can directly effect him by giving him test and anabolics and he’ll blow up, but it won’t go to his kids, if he can have anymore haha

 

[squirrel]

If you get old deer you will have big deer, do not confuse big with high scoring B&C bucks. I have never been anywhere and seen old deer with less than 4x4 racks in WT world. Individual weirdos yes but not collectively. If you see a 3x3 its invariably a young deer. And yes there are the occasional Darwin reject deer. The reason you are seeing the smaller deer is because of the behavioural differences between old and young WT. Old deer are creatures of the night. Do you have the ability to spotlight your place after dark during the rut??? If you do you will quickly see what I mean.

I used to spotlight in N-C Kansas around the properties I had stands in. The deer in charge of those food source fields were an entirely different class of critter than I regularly observed from my trees in daylight. I didn't ever actually kill any of these giants but it sure made it easier to get out of bed in the morning.

 

[K9kodi]

I’ve seen em at night. There’s some large tracts that’s are so thick of pines it’s hard to walk and good luck getting a stand up.

 

[K9kodi]

Thinking back there is a horse trail going the center of one of the thick ass line tracts. Maybe I try that next season