Trump begins repealing national park declarations.

[Hunthigh1]

Exactly how is that racist??? Are facts now racist in today's society?

Fair enough. I agree with ya. I'll focus on the part of the issue that I'm considering at the moment:

Wildfire management:
Just because a fire area looks ugly or "devastated" to the average observer does not make it a bad thing. I hate hearing guys complain that they are doing nothing about x fire. What the hell are they thinking?
I have killed some awesome animals in burn areas, and it's amazing how quickly they regenerate at a small vegetation level. Fire is often a good thing and I think too many hunters lack this understanding. A winter range fire is no good but I feel the Feds have no business fighting fires in large wild tracts of lands. They are natural and the animals will survive. Lochsa selway country is a wonderful example that could use a good fire in some areas.
I understand the frustration when your honey hole goes up in flames but as a hunter you must adapt, find a new spot, better yet hunt some burn edges this year and you may shoot a booner! Nature is ever changing and fire is a part of that.


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[tipsntails7]

How would have liked it, if all the land used to hunt was a national monument for 100 miles in every direction?

You could have still hunted it.

Your posts are some of the dumbest shit on this forum. What are you even doing here?

Your so blinded by your hatred for liberals that you cannot have an Intellectual conversation and realize moderation on both sides is clearly the answer.


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[Billinsd]

You could have still hunted it.
Your posts are some of the dumbest shit on this forum. What are you even doing here?


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I love you too sweetheart!! Just because we disagree on most if not all issues is no reason to lose your temper and attack me. I'm here because I want to give my opinion just like you, but apparently it's not ok with you? I'm guilty of not liking liberals, and hypocrisy and painting with a big brush, generalization a lot!!, sometimes posting compulsively lol, etc. Looks like I mixed up National Parks and Monuments, because to me in general they are pretty much the same in that they are very restrictive.

Most newly designated national monuments can be hunted. Monuments designated in the early to mid-1900s are mostly off-limits. It's real difficult for me to keep up with all of this. Like I said National Monument, National Park no hunting or very restricted compared to National Forest. Although my passion is hunting, when it comes to politcal issues, it's libeety, and freedom. That's mystery, I logic and generalization. You and I can agree to disagree, however you are way out of line!!!

 

[tipsntails7]

I love you too sweetheart!! Just because we disagree on most if not all issues is no reason to lose your temper and attack me. I'm here because I want to give my opinion just like you, but apparently it's not ok with you? I'm guilty of not liking liberals, and hypocrisy and painting with a big brush, generalization a lot!!, sometimes posting compulsively lol, etc. Looks like I mixed up National Parks and Monuments, because to me in general they are pretty much the same in that they are very restrictive.

Most newly designated national monuments can be hunted. Monuments designated in the early to mid-1900s are mostly off-limits. It's real difficult for me to keep up with all of this. Like I said National Monument, National Park no hunting or very restricted compared to National Forest. That's my logic and generalization. You and I can agree to disagree, however you are way out of line!!!

Here is the problem. You make comments coming from a completely uneducated place regarding this particular subject, that's the problem, considering you act like your opinions are facts.

Why are you on a backcountry hunting site, where I bet 99% of the hunting is done on federal lands if you feel the way you do? You disparage Randy Newberg in another thread, a guy who's done a shit load for hunter and anglers( I assume your one of those two). You have nothing to add except pot shots at people who are liberal minded.

Unlike Broomed, who at least articulates his opinions with intelligence, you just spew nonsense like " frak baby frak". Even though I disagree with him that states could manage forest land better, at least he makes points with some substance.

Saying that we should rip the earth of every consumable we can is just as ignorant as saying we should ban the practice all together.


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[Billinsd]

Your so blinded by your hatred for liberals that you cannot have an Intellectual conversation and realize moderation on both sides is clearly the answer.

Not hatred, but very strong disagreement on most liberal issues. I do have some moderate, liberal views on some things. When you say moderation on both sides is clearly the answer. It's not really clear and it's your opinion. I disagree with your logic. However, modedation is usually the answer, but it isn't always the answer. I do believe in being pragmatic, believe or not, and I'm very conservative, Libertarian. Look you don't really know me, nor me know you. On the Internet threads like this leave out the face to face. In person, you and I might get along ok. I've got liberal, moderate friends. I'd say my generalizations and impatience are bigger issue than my ideology. Come on big Hug!!!

 

[Billinsd]

Here is the problem. You make comments coming from a completely uneducated place regarding this particular subject, that's the problem, considering you act like your opinions are facts.

I disagree with completely uneducated. Totally agree with jumping in

Why are you on a backcountry hunting site, where I bet 99% of the hunting is done on federal lands if you feel the way you do?

Because back county mule deer and elk hunting are the most fun things I can imagine with my pants on!!! And my political views that I have held for most of my life don't revolve around one issue

You disparage Randy Newberg in another thread, a guy who's done a shit load for hunter and anglers( I assume your one of those two).

Yes, I do both!! I don't believe I disparaged him, that's your opinion. I disagreed with him and his agreement style. He seems like a really great guy and I said that. However, I can and will disagree with most anyone. I have a mind of my own.

You have nothing to add except pot shots at people who are liberal minded.

Again that is your opinion, which is a generalization.

Unlike Broomed, who at least articulates his opinions with intelligence, you just spew nonsense like " frak baby frak". Even though I disagree with him that states could manage forest land better, at least he makes points with some substance.

Right there, I'm just dog piling, banging a drum and being silly.

Saying that we should rip the earth of every consumable we can is just as ignorant as saying we should ban the practice all together.

Once again you are over generalizing. I dont think I said that. We both over generalize a lot. I don't say or want everything ripped out. I consider myself a consrvationist and I'm real pro development. I think our country has way overdone it on environmentalism and am a huge cheerleader on pushing back.

 

[Billinsd]

By some reactions and comments I wonder how many people actually understand what a national monument is or what that designation means.


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Here is a definition. I always thought they were ONLY managed by the Nation Park Service. A National Monument in the United States is a protected area that is similar to a National Park, but can be created from any land owned or controlled by the federal government[a] by proclamation of the President of the United States.

National monuments can be managed by one of several federal agencies: the National Park Service, United States Forest Service, United States Fish and Wildlife Service, or the Bureau of Land Management. Historically, some national monuments were managed by the War Department.[1]

National monuments can be so designated through the power of the Antiquities Act of 1906. President Theodore Roosevelt used the act to declare Devils Tower in Wyoming as the first national monument.

 

[Billinsd]

The "haven't seen the liberals this mad since we took their slaves away" was a nice racist closing statement as well.


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Not exactly. Back then the Republicans were anti slave and radical. The Southern Democrats were pro slave and anti black until the early 60s, then they flipped 180. The "take your slaves away" comment isn't racist one tiny bit. It's not entirely correct in that modern day liberals are nothing like the racist slave owning Southern Democrats in the 19th Century. The only link is that most modern liberals are Democrats and 19th centure Southern Slave owners were Democrats. Also some Northerner Republicans had slaves and Grant kept his slaves until the 11th amendment I think it was. The Emancipation Declaration only freed slaves in Confederate states during the war is what I understand.

 

[Billinsd]

Nevermind

I read George Will's article on Trump the Nevermind President. I assume that's what you are implying? I agree that he has done a lot of Never minding. It makes me cringe when he does that and lots of other stuff.

 

[Ty208]

Wow. Funny how everything goes to the race card. I've read the entire article and everyone's posts... all I really see is most of you trying to outsmart each other. That's where the puking sensation comes from. We here are all outdoorsman. I don't think one of us wants our land taken nor raped. well known fact, hunters and anglers contribute more money to habitat restoration, conservation and education than any liberal environmental group.. I.e. Earth first, sierra club, etc. I am noticing a trend in emotion based arguement versus fact based arguement. And here's a fun fact as previously stated.. dems were proud slave owners and pissed at ole honest Abe for bustin up their party I would rather read you guys talkin gear or you name it versus debating issues which are just pissing most of you off. We are a dying breed gentlemen.. also, fire good. Very good. Worked as a USFS HOTSHOT for many years. Management is good also. And you know what, so is debate. I also served in the marines for awhile and brawled the ****in savages so opinionated people can continue to stomp their feet. Forgive my lack of diligence and other warm and fuzzy shit but, you all remember that bad ass men risk their lives so you can run your mouth. So why don't focus on what matters. Hunting. Oh and FYI, I'm anything but racist. And to those of you that got what I was saying, Merica boys merica

 

[tipsntails7]

I read George Will's article on Trump the Nevermind President. I assume that's what you are implying? I agree that he has done a lot of Never minding. It makes me cringe when he does that and lots of other stuff.

No, I wrote a comment and decided against it. But it wouldn't let me delete the post.


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[Broomd]

Fair enough. I agree with ya. I'll focus on the part of the issue that I'm considering at the moment:

Wildfire management:
Just because a fire area looks ugly or "devastated" to the average observer does not make it a bad thing. I hate hearing guys complain that they are doing nothing about x fire. What the hell are they thinking?
I have killed some awesome animals in burn areas, and it's amazing how quickly they regenerate at a small vegetation level. Fire is often a good thing and I think too many hunters lack this understanding. A winter range fire is no good but I feel the Feds have no business fighting fires in large wild tracts of lands. They are natural and the animals will survive. Lochsa selway country is a wonderful example that could use a good fire in some areas.
I understand the frustration when your honey hole goes up in flames but as a hunter you must adapt, find a new spot, better yet hunt some burn edges this year and you may shoot a booner! Nature is ever changing and fire is a part of that.


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Well, I expect that is a shot at me...lot of supposition there on your part. What you don't seem to get is that there are varying degrees of fire. The carnage in an area that is fuel-loaded with super dry, super thick, century-old timber can result in an area that is a barren wasteland for decades. We're not talking a quick, hot, fast-moving fire.
I wasn't referring to any honey-holes, and I'm anything but naive about this subject. Fire can be very good for the landscape, particularly for small game, game birds, and browsing ungulates. But it can also be very bad. When timber is burned so hot that it literally kills all the trees affected the resulting erosion can destroy a habitat. It's not healthy for the watersheds and fisheries either.
Proper timber management is important in any ecosystem it can be practically applied..

 

[Hunthigh1]

Well, I expect that is a shot at me...lot of supposition there on your part. What you don't seem to get is that there are varying degrees of fire. The carnage in an area that is fuel-loaded with super dry, super thick, century-old timber can result in an area that is a barren wasteland for decades. We're not talking a quick, hot, fast-moving fire.
I wasn't referring to any honey-holes, and I'm anything but naive about this subject. Fire can be very good for the landscape, particularly for small game, game birds, and browsing ungulates. But it can also be very bad. When timber is burned so hot that it literally kills all the trees affected the resulting erosion can destroy a habitat. It's not healthy for the watersheds and fisheries either.
Proper timber management is important in any ecosystem it can be practically applied..

Not a shot at you at all, I was referencing in person interactions here in Idaho.
I agree, many types of fire with widely varied impact.


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[Billinsd]

Your posts are some of the dumbest shit on this forum. What are you even doing here?

You have a BS in Psychology from Hawaii and studied Psychiatry at Tulane!!! You never said if you finished your studies and are Doctor of Psychiatry? Either way, I've never seen physicians with as much time to post on forums as you, and never as rude as you. How do you talk to your patients, yikes!! Didn't you take some hypocritical oath or something LOL?

 

[Billinsd]

Wow. Funny how everything goes to the race card. I've read the entire article and everyone's posts... all I really see is most of you trying to outsmart each other. That's where the puking sensation comes from. We here are all outdoorsman. I don't think one of us wants our land taken nor raped. well known fact, hunters and anglers contribute more money to habitat restoration, conservation and education than any liberal environmental group.. I.e. Earth first, sierra club, etc. I am noticing a trend in emotion based arguement versus fact based arguement. And here's a fun fact as previously stated.. dems were proud slave owners and pissed at ole honest Abe for bustin up their party I would rather read you guys talkin gear or you name it versus debating issues which are just pissing most of you off. We are a dying breed gentlemen.. also, fire good. Very good. Worked as a USFS HOTSHOT for many years. Management is good also. And you know what, so is debate. I also served in the marines for awhile and brawled the ****in savages so opinionated people can continue to stomp their feet. Forgive my lack of diligence and other warm and fuzzy shit but, you all remember that bad ass men risk their lives so you can run your mouth. So why don't focus on what matters. Hunting. Oh and FYI, I'm anything but racist. And to those of you that got what I was saying, Merica boys merica

MERICA brother... And thanks for your service. Very old school post.

 

[cbeck36]

Talked to a DWR officer about being able to hunt the San Juans in the future. Word on the street is continued hunting there is on shaky ground. I'm not as well versed as any of you with regards to all of the public lands issues. I fought wild land fires with dozers in Utah, Nevada, Idaho and California . When a type I team showed up and took control from the states it was a boondoggle of biblical proportions. The most disgusting waste of time, resources and money. Inefficiency run amok.

 

[tipsntails7]

You have a BS in Psychology from Hawaii and studied Psychiatry at Tulane!!! You never said if you finished your studies and are Doctor of Psychiatry? Either way, I've never seen physicians with as much time to post on forums as you, and never as rude as you. How do you talk to your patients, yikes!! Didn't you take some hypocritical oath or something LOL?

I didn't, although doctors do have free time, and are people just like anyone else, they come in all shapes and sizes. I will admit that may have been a little harsh, but now you've entered weirdo on the internet territory.

You should spend less time reading my old posts on other subjects and more time educating yourself on what this thread and national monuments are actually about.
It's perfectly fine you you don't like them, or are against them for real articulated reasons, but using misinformation to substantiate your feelings is not constructive to the conversation.

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[5MilesBack]

I am noticing a trend in emotion based arguement versus fact based arguement.

There's a lot of that these days. You can also remove "facts" from your statement and insert "logic and reason". But yes......emotional arguments abound these days. That's why they're labeled emotional hemophiliacs.