TRT

[Team4LongGun]

Another follow up question-I’ve read conflicting reports of TRT side effect of blood thickening, which could increase stroke risk. Would like to hear what you gents think.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

I have been on every diet and so much research over the years to know that no to very low carbs do work to loose weight and there are some who thrive on it.Thats not the norm and for me and I bet a lot of other middle aged men a low carb diet would be better.I talking 150 grams or so for the 165-200lb man.
While technically not needed that does not mean there not beneficial.Let me remind you we are not cave men.Its funny to hear all the bs about that and how we should eat.
Do eat like a child.
Eat protein,eat good fat and good carbs in moderation.Its not hard but you have to figure out if you prefer more carbs or more fat.
Thicker blood is definitely a concern but something I have had no issues with in 6 years.
Most who take a larger dose may have issue but you can donate blood every so often to possible help.

 

[Neckbone]

My hope is that anyone thinking about TRT implements lifestyle changes first...

1. Quality whole foods diet (meat, eggs, fruit, veggies, nuts, etc... no processed BS, no fad diets, real food)
2. Exercising regularly
3. Getting 8 hours of sleep every day
4. Quitting or at least cutting way back on alcohol
5. Quitting smoking
6. Getting to your ideal body weight

If this isn't you, do this for at LEAST 6 months before even considering your testosterone. IMO TRT is not a crutch to help you get motivated to do these things... it is a treatment for a clinical condition that is refractory to a healthy lifestyle. Don't put the cart before the horse.

 

[S.Clancy]

My hope is that anyone thinking about TRT implements lifestyle changes first...

1. Quality whole foods diet (meat, eggs, fruit, veggies, nuts, etc... no processed BS, no fad diets, real food)
2. Exercising regularly
3. Getting 8 hours of sleep every day
4. Quitting or at least cutting way back on alcohol
5. Quitting smoking
6. Getting to your ideal body weight

If this isn't you, do this for at LEAST 6 months before even considering your testosterone. IMO TRT is not a crutch to help you get motivated to do these things... it is a treatment for a clinical condition that is refractory to a healthy lifestyle. Don't put the cart before the horse.

This. Real TRT need is pretty low, it should not be a crutch to support a shitty lifestyle.

 

[scrubolio]

My hope is that anyone thinking about TRT implements lifestyle changes first...

1. Quality whole foods diet (meat, eggs, fruit, veggies, nuts, etc... no processed BS, no fad diets, real food)
2. Exercising regularly
3. Getting 8 hours of sleep every day
4. Quitting or at least cutting way back on alcohol
5. Quitting smoking
6. Getting to your ideal body weight

If this isn't you, do this for at LEAST 6 months before even considering your testosterone. IMO TRT is not a crutch to help you get motivated to do these things... it is a treatment for a clinical condition that is refractory to a healthy lifestyle. Don't put the cart before the horse.

I agree that any hormone therapy should be a last resort (if it should be at all is another debate) and that those 6 things are important, but it all depends on what state the person is in. If someone is unable to afford quality food, unable to sleep at night, or unable to lose weight no matter what they have tried so far, these/some points maybe hard to swallow.

 

[S.Clancy]

I agree that any hormone therapy should be a last resort (if it should be at all is another debate) and that those 6 things are important, but it all depends on what state the person is in. If someone is unable to afford quality food, unable to sleep at night, or unable to lose weight no matter what they have tried so far, these/some points maybe hard to swallow.

Unable to afford quality food but can afford Hormone replacement.....interesting.

 

[Coopsdaddy]

My hope is that anyone thinking about TRT implements lifestyle changes first...

1. Quality whole foods diet (meat, eggs, fruit, veggies, nuts, etc... no processed BS, no fad diets, real food)
2. Exercising regularly
3. Getting 8 hours of sleep every day
4. Quitting or at least cutting way back on alcohol
5. Quitting smoking
6. Getting to your ideal body weight

If this isn't you, do this for at LEAST 6 months before even considering your testosterone. IMO TRT is not a crutch to help you get motivated to do these things... it is a treatment for a clinical condition that is refractory to a healthy lifestyle. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Absolutely!!!

 

[BadDogPSD]

Another follow up question-I’ve read conflicting reports of TRT side effect of blood thickening, which could increase stroke risk. Would like to hear what you gents think.

Happened to me. Polycythemia- elevated hematocrit & hemoglobin caused an increase in blood pressure. Initially I donated whole blood to help counter the affects, then switched from 1 dose a week to 3 smaller doses. BP is still slightly elevated, but better than it was.

 

[BadDogPSD]

Yes you're right, biologically you do not need to eat carbs (if you have enough fat). Biologically you also do not need to eat fat (if you have enough carbs). That's the beauty of the robustness of our bodies. However, what you can do doesn't equate to what is optimal. By my definition, optimal meaning keeping a high rate of metabolism.

If you're thriving on <50g of carbs a day, by all means continue to do so.

Carb/sugar being the primary cause of metabolic disease is simply not founded on any solid basis.

However, increasing fat oxidation (burning fat), especially polyunsaturated fats, leads to numerous downstream effects causing suboptimal metabolism. And a big majority of the fats we eat are polyunsaturated, which leads to a list too long to recite here. Link to a great post with citations done on another forum.

As for ketones, well yes they work and its a great adaptation/mechanism that our body can rely on to get "sugar" when our body is in a state of "stress". But IMO, it's simply better to not put your body in that state of "stress" in the first place. Ketones are produced when your cortisol levels are high, which activates converting protein into glucose and fat into ketones. Cortisol is ok in the short term (a great anti-inflammatory), but in the long term is very detrimental.

And I would argue that keto, ketovore, or strict carnivore IS the optimal way of eating. Increases in cortisol are typically due to not eating enough salt when switching to , and maintaining a ketogenic diet.

 

[scrubolio]

And I would argue that keto, ketovore, or strict carnivore IS the optimal way of eating. Increases in cortisol are typically due to not eating enough salt when switching to , and maintaining a ketogenic diet.

Can you name what about eating low/zero carb makes it the optimal diet? as in what are you looking to achieve when you say optimal diet?

increased levels of cortisol are directly related to being in a state of hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), which is what is touted in low/zero carb circles in order to be in a state of ketosis. I'm not sure that is something to be debated.

This is an excellent primer of why you may not want to be constantly in a state of ketosis.

 

[BadDogPSD]

Can you name what about eating low/zero carb makes it the optimal diet? as in what are you looking to achieve when you say optimal diet?

increased levels of cortisol are directly related to being in a state of hypoglycemia (low blood sugar), which is what is touted in low/zero carb circles in order to be in a state of ketosis. I'm not sure that is something to be debated.

This is an excellent primer of why you may not want to be constantly in a state of ketosis.

I'm not hypoglycemic, nor am I constantly in a state of ketosis.
To varying degrees, fruits & vegetables have toxins, anti-nutrients, and low bioavailabilty of vitamins & minerals.
Grains, sugars, and alcohol are inflammatory, as are seed oils.
And processed foods are not really food.
Many countries are facing epidemics of obesity, metabolic disease, heart disease, diabetes, etc..
I'm old enough to remember when the USDA came out with the food pyramid, when beef was vilified, low fat diets were the rage, and when we were told margarine was a much healthier alternative to butter.
As a society, we got fatter & sicker.
To me, an optimal diet is when I feel good, perform good, retain muscle and don't carry excess fat.

 

[Arkangel86]

I already started an apple or apple and a half weeks ago. Adding in some natural nut butter and sweet potatoes is a good idea.

Whens your next blood test?

Would love to know what the reintroduction of carbs has done to the values

 

[Neckbone]

I'm not hypoglycemic, nor am I constantly in a state of ketosis.
To varying degrees, fruits & vegetables have toxins, anti-nutrients, and low bioavailabilty of vitamins & minerals.
Grains, sugars, and alcohol are inflammatory, as are seed oils.
And processed foods are not really food.
Many countries are facing epidemics of obesity, metabolic disease, heart disease, diabetes, etc..
I'm old enough to remember when the USDA came out with the food pyramid, when beef was vilified, low fat diets were the rage, and when we were told margarine was a much healthier alternative to butter.
As a society, we got fatter & sicker.
To me, an optimal diet is when I feel good, perform good, retain muscle and don't carry excess fat.

Food pyramid is garbage. Processed foods are garbage. For well over 100 years food companies have been making food cheaper to produce, more satiating, and more convenient for the consumer to help their bottom line. Things get dark when they promote unhealthy foods as healthy alternatives, and even worse, confuse the public about what is healthy at all..

The whole idea of fruits and veggies having "toxins" is misleading. The devil is in the dose and what you usually find is this toxicity was found in rat studies when they were given ungodly amounts of whatever compound is in question. Hell, over consumption of WATER can kill you. You can take ANY food item and find a way to vilify it. Food A causes inflammation. Food B causes autoimmune response.. blah blah. All this noise does is confuse people and complicate dieting...and often it comes from internet talking heads who are selling you on a lifestyle and ultimately a product.

There is no one size fits all diet. People have allergies, sensitivities, preferences, etc. If you cut out the BS highly processed garbage you are doing good.

 

[*zap*]

Whens your next blood test?

Would love to know what the reintroduction of carbs has done to the values

end january

 

[ThorM465]

My hope is that anyone thinking about TRT implements lifestyle changes first...

1. Quality whole foods diet (meat, eggs, fruit, veggies, nuts, etc... no processed BS, no fad diets, real food)
2. Exercising regularly
3. Getting 8 hours of sleep every day
4. Quitting or at least cutting way back on alcohol
5. Quitting smoking
6. Getting to your ideal body weight

If this isn't you, do this for at LEAST 6 months before even considering your testosterone. IMO TRT is not a crutch to help you get motivated to do these things... it is a treatment for a clinical condition that is refractory to a healthy lifestyle. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Let me start by giving the devil his due. The prescription that fixes low T is not drugs. The prescriptions that fixes it is a lifestyle. However, prescriptive drugs may be an important part of that lifestyle. Just like eating right and exercising shouldn't be ignored neither should your hormone levels.

The quoted post is pretty good advice hidden within horrible advice. All of these 6 things are great things that should be done, no doubt about it. However, there are some problems with it.
Exercising regularly - your hormones being out of whack is like running a V8 on 2, 3, or 4 cylinders. You're only going to get a fraction of the output you would otherwise.
8 hours of sleep - That sounds great, but no matter what I did I couldn't do this until I got my hormones in check. It progressively got worse until I'd regularly have multiple nights a week I wouldn't sleep at all. If you can't sleep due to your hormones it can become a viscous cycle where everything begins to go down hill until you're going off a cliff.
Ideal body weight - good luck with that when your hormones are out of whack. You almost have to go on such a severe calorie deficit that you're going to starve your body of needed nutrients and vitamins.

If you're having low T symptoms take the previous advice, but for 6 weeks and not 6 months. You're not going to fix the problems in 6 weeks, you're not even going to start seeing much results, but you should start to feel different, you should see things starting to turn the corner and head in the right direction. If you don't feel better, if you feel like you're going in circles and getting nowhere it's time to get to the doc.

Regardless by this point you should be getting a full blood panel. If you're having a problem with your hormones level you obviously should be getting a full panel at least annually to monitor it. If you're in your early 20s operating at the pinnacle of health get an annual panel, so that when you find yourself in our shoes you'll know what your optimum levels are that you're trying to obtain.

Now that we're at the point your going to the doc, I can't say this strongly enough do not try to get this fixed through a general practitioner. The conventional "wisdom" in the general medical industry is absolute garbage. They'll put you on garbage drugs to get you to the bare minimum and call it a win. The "healthy" range is 300 ng/dl to 1000 ng/dl depending on age. Your optimum level may be 850 (mine is 9XX), but they will only do enough to get you to 300 and call it done. Most still don't know that they need to watch to keep your estrogen levels down when on these drugs. Go to a DOCTOR who specializes in hormone health!

I tried a couple including one out of FL where I never got to talk to the Dr only someone wanting to sell me drugs. Avoid these practices! I use the Frank Institute. I like Dr Frank alot. His practice is in NC and I'm in AL, so everything has been done virtually and has worked great. These type of clinics are becoming more popular and popping up around the country, so you may be able to find one locally. The downside to these clinics is that insurance doesn't cover it. I pay on average $200-$300 per month. It's not cheap, but it is affordable and worth every penny.

I started out on a handful of drugs as we were working to get my levels where they should be. I immediately started sleeping again which opened up a path to fixing everything else. Over the next few years I adjusted my lifestyle and was able to work off all the drugs except peptides. Now I just do peptides about 9 months out of the year. If I could just get my back to stop failing on me I'd be back to optimal health and a 6 pack. haha I can't stress enough how much better I feel now.

I can't say this strongly enough. If the Doctor's plan doesn't include peptides go elsewhere. Peptides are the future for TRT.

 

[*zap*]

Natty is probably the best way to go but it may take a while.....I think people today are very, very impatient and that is a big problem with this topic. Daily progress vs overnight perfection.

Good sleep and plenty of it (take the right supplements before/during sleep), take the right supplements daily, get your diet in order, drop body fat to a low bodyfat% (very important), lift heavy things (relative to your current ability) take the right supplements before exercise, limit stress, embrace discomfort-especially the self imposed variety, do not take any advice for anything listed above that starts with "just do 5 minutes of this for.....", understand that patience must be cultivated and embraced.....patience and small gains daily = goals achieved/sustainability.

just an opinion....

 

[ThorM465]

Natty is probably the best way to go but it may take a while.....I think people today are very, very impatient and that is a big problem with this topic. Daily progress vs overnight perfection.

Good sleep and plenty of it (take the right supplements before/during sleep), take the right supplements daily, get your diet in order, drop body fat to a low bodyfat% (very important), lift heavy things (relative to your current ability) take the right supplements before exercise, limit stress, embrace discomfort-especially the self imposed variety, do not take any advice for anything listed above that starts with "just do 5 minutes of this for.....", understand that patience must be cultivated and embraced.....patience and small gains daily = goals achieved/sustainability.

just an opinion....

I completely agree that if you can make it work for you, natty is the best way. However, there are a couple of things that should be added.

Don't lose some of the best years of your life because you're to stubborn to accept help if your health is deteriorating under a "natty" lifestyle. Even if it's just to use the Dr to help you work towards a Natty lifestyle as the end goal.

If you're taking supplements, you're not natty. I hate to burst the bubble. You're 1 step removed from taking peptides. I'm not knocking supplements, I think they're a great tool. You'd be surprised what's in many whether intentional or not. Whether you're taking over the counter or pharmaceuticals you're taking synthetics to reach a goal. Both can be abused and both can be used within a healthy regiment.

 

[*zap*]

vitamin and mineral supplements...amino acids and etc. I guess if you take a multi vitamin you would consider that somehow a bad thing.

 

[ThorM465]

vitamin and mineral supplements...amino acids and etc. I guess if you take a multi vitamin you would consider that somehow a bad thing.

Peptides are an amino acid that primarily triggers the natural production of growth hormones. Depending on the specific peptide it can have other benefits as well, such as BPC 157 which has incredible healing properties for damaged body parts that may have been thought to be irreparable.

 

[*zap*]

^ if you take protein powder drinks your not natty, right.

Do protein bars also qualify as ped's?