Troy Session AK Hunt Planner a thief?

[Larry Bartlett]

yeah Huntindog45, on the surface this sounds like a cry baby rant. It isn't sir. This post was meant for two reasons:

1.) to state for the record how I feel about being ripped off by a guy who is marketing in the weeds of this site trolling for business opportunities. He's a lurker. I don't play that shit. When I smell a rat I'm gonna smoke that rodent out of camp before he spreads his feces in sight of me.

2.) I'm using technology and key word searches with posts like this instead of wasting time and resources to pursue litigation. When others google this poser, they'll have a few more bits of info to read thanks this threads and others.

you're hearing about this as a market warning not as a cry for sympathy.

peace gents.

 

[Silveroddo]

I can see where they definitely copied aspects of what you do, poorly. The rowing set up is straight off of the Kaboats/Saturn type boats and the carry handles look pretty cheap/weak. Looks like they "Developed" or bought the Kia of what your doing. I'd assume the Kaboats are some kind of Licensed deal, looks like the same ones Chugach Mountain Sports are selling. I can see where a guy would be pissed, but honestly I think the guys that are looking for the real deal will still spend the money on the real deal, and the guys that are cheap are going to buy that stuff cheaper off BoatstoGo. I've got one of your Pioneer Extremes, and if I was in the market for another one, nothing about what I see the 60" club doing would make me buy something from them over buying the real deal from you.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

well said silveroddo

 

[Clarktar]

def90, I single handedly created the synthetic game bag market in the early 2000s. That means any synthetic game bags you see today resulted from my work, science, R&D and faith in the concept. That's not a brag report, just the fact. Caribou gear was the first to copy my work.

Of course i didn't create the "self bailing" raft design, but im not clear you have a point since i haven't mentioned anything about self bailing features.

A copy of a copy of a copy is what I'm stating.

Yep, and I still use the first set I got from you several years ago.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[fmyth]

"They copied all they could copy, But they couldn’t copy my mind; And I left them sweatin’ and stealin’, A year and a half behind." Rudyard Kipling

 

[Mosby]

fair enough fella's, i'm glad you asked for more info:

When he was a railroad engineer and made videos as a side hussle as Duck Shack Production (<7 years ago roughly), he was also flying hunter "friends" (who i know) into the field without a Part 135 certifcate. He started buying TAG Bags from me and eventually traded some flying for a Pro Pioneer (my 1st SOAR design). He did the flying for the moose hunt in Float Hunting Alaska (Volume 3) for that trade. He asked for advice on getting into the hunting industry with some gadget he used to attract bull moose (it was crap) He asked a lot of questions about Hunt Planning and product development, etc. I told him honestly everything i could to help him succeed by avoiding my personal mistakes.

Fast forward to about five years ago and he started doing commercial flying for "friends" into a river system I use for Hunt Planning. He also landed on a lake nearby in the Kanuti flats and chainsawed 150 square yards of trees to make room for his wings to turn 180 degrees and to gain access to the shoreline. That was on Kanuti Refuge. Not environmentally friendly practice and also against the law.

Two years ago he started renting my PR49 and Kork for his expanding hunt planning business (surprise #1). He'd return them filthy and bloody but sometimes not until spring the next season. Moldy and damaged from misuse.

This year or last he decided to branch out into game bags. He took the look that I created for his stuff sacks so they look like TAG Bags, only he inverted the orange and black colors.

This year he never called for renting my inflatables, but he did manage to produce a strikingly similar version complete with the mesh seats and suspension design that I innovated for my rafts. The handles, the d-rings, the general shape and function...all copies upon copies upon copies of what my intellect created.

Call it the American Way or free enterprise, but call it what it really is too: Leeching from the hand that fed you!

Troy Session has lost my respect and my friendship without so much as a wrap around before doing what he'll continue doing to others until someone says, no thank you, sir. I am that man. And i'm lamenting poopoo about him so that no one in this community assumes that because his products look exactly like mine that they should trust him or them. They shouldn't. I am not only opposite of what he does and is but also unapologetic to warn people not to trust his character. If this rant saves one person $8000, then i served yet another good deed for you and friends.

BTW, you can't patent certain product or designs, and they are expensive to pursue regardless. Textiles and things like boats are easy to copy cat. Just change the dimensions by a fraction of a fraction of one inch in either direction and it's "legal" to pursue.

But there is a moral character standard that should, but doesn't always, exist within American Capitalism. Authenticity and originality should be legally required to some degree, although it certainly isn't. But when I defended this country's interest as a teenager in the Gulf War, I learned that what separates people in our country is the degree of a moral backbone. He has a thin moral structure and karma will likely wax his short and curlys one day!

LB, out

I worked in product development at one point in my career and worked with guys like him. They can't create but they will take an idea and make money off of it. They could care less about friendships or morals. All about the money. They are always working an angle. They can be hard to identify. Some are pretty slick. There are guys at outdoor shows that do the same thing. They watch product sales at booths and if something is getting a lot of attention, they will be selling it the next year.

Thanks for the heads up and hope he doesn't dip into your sales and client base too much.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

agreed Mosby.

Fmyth...Rudyard was a bad mamajama

 

[mtnbiker208]

in most industry's, ken kodak and paul polariod are the biggest designers out there.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

Wonder how he's justifying trying to patent Kuiu's game bag design with handles? That's just shameful, Sessions.

When you patent a product the process includes disclosing "prior artwork" that may resemble or is similar to the patent itself. Be interesting to see where this goes. The attachment was forwarded to me by a Rokslide member who showed him the Kuiu game bags he was using with handles, and now Sessions is touting that he created the concept?!

When the snowball catches up to this loser it's gonna be heavy!

 

[Troy Sessions]

Wonder how he's justifying trying to patent Kuiu's game bag design with handles? That's just shameful, Sessions.

When you patent a product the process includes disclosing "prior artwork" that may resemble or is similar to the patent itself. Be interesting to see where this goes. The attachment was forwarded to me by a Rokslide member who showed him the Kuiu game bags he was using with handles, and now Sessions is touting that he created the concept?!

When the snowball catches up to this loser it's gonna be heavy!

LB, it's important to understand that the patent process is far more complicated than you may think. The concept behind the bags you claim as your own has been around for almost 100 years. The first "bags" used were the old burlap bean and barley grain bags utilized by farmers in the early 1900s. Both my great-great-grandfather and grandfather used these bags back in the 1920s, as I'm sure all our grandparents did. Therefore, you have no I-Property here.


My lawyers have thoroughly researched the patenting process, and it is clear that Kuiu's bags were not even under consideration. In fact, the only patents we found relevant were from Caribou Gear and a cadaver bag company. Neither of them includes a handle at the bottom of the bag or a double drawstring at the top. My 35-page patent write-up explicitly describes a handle at the bottom of the bag, not at each end where the zipper could be, but at the bottom of the bag.


I want to make it clear that while in the past I bought and used your bags for many years, the design and functionality have not fully met my needs. Although the synthetic material is durable, the lack of a bottom handle for easy loading onto my plane, boats, and canoes prompted me to make my own bags. While I appreciate the material, it's important to note that the design of the bag was not influenced by your company or anyone else for that matter.


You haven't heard from other raft "brands" because we all buy from the same manufacturer, and they know how the process works. These manufactureres sale these rafts to companies all around the world and everyone reading this can aslo save a TON of money and buy from them as well.

LB, none of what you've said about me is true. Your delusional concept of checks and balances shows signs of mental instability. You really need to filter what you say. I know exactly how purchasing products and distribution works, and I'm here to teach and show everyone how to do it.
YOU DID THIS.
Now it's my turn...





Keep spouting off Larry, the "snowball" is now catching up to you...

 

[BBob]

A bag with a handle on the bottom, new and patentable? Laughable. Good luck. I have old Patrick Smith Mountainsmith or mby really early Kifaru game bags with a handle on the bottom. What people try to patent as new and the greatest since sliced bread puzzle me. And again good luck with it.

 

[intunegp]

 

[Shadow Illude]

Interesting, and as someone who has purchased two PR49s, I can see where this other dude got his design “inspiration”.

 

[Shadow Illude]

Legit PR49 for reference.

 

[Q child]

fair enough fella's, i'm glad you asked for more info:

When he was a railroad engineer and made videos as a side hussle as Duck Shack Production (<7 years ago roughly), he was also flying hunter "friends" (who i know) into the field without a Part 135 certifcate. He started buying TAG Bags from me and eventually traded some flying for a Pro Pioneer (my 1st SOAR design). He did the flying for the moose hunt in Float Hunting Alaska (Volume 3) for that trade. He asked for advice on getting into the hunting industry with some gadget he used to attract bull moose (it was crap) He asked a lot of questions about Hunt Planning and product development, etc. I told him honestly everything i could to help him succeed by avoiding my personal mistakes.

Fast forward to about five years ago and he started doing commercial flying for "friends" into a river system I use for Hunt Planning. He also landed on a lake nearby in the Kanuti flats and chainsawed 150 square yards of trees to make room for his wings to turn 180 degrees and to gain access to the shoreline. That was on Kanuti Refuge. Not environmentally friendly practice and also against the law.

Two years ago he started renting my PR49 and Kork for his expanding hunt planning business (surprise #1). He'd return them filthy and bloody but sometimes not until spring the next season. Moldy and damaged from misuse.

This year or last he decided to branch out into game bags. He took the look that I created for his stuff sacks so they look like TAG Bags, only he inverted the orange and black colors.

This year he never called for renting my inflatables, but he did manage to produce a strikingly similar version complete with the mesh seats and suspension design that I innovated for my rafts. The handles, the d-rings, the general shape and function...all copies upon copies upon copies of what my intellect created.

Call it the American Way or free enterprise, but call it what it really is too: Leeching from the hand that fed you!

Troy Session has lost my respect and my friendship without so much as a wrap around before doing what he'll continue doing to others until someone says, no thank you, sir. I am that man. And i'm lamenting poopoo about him so that no one in this community assumes that because his products look exactly like mine that they should trust him or them. They shouldn't. I am not only opposite of what he does and is but also unapologetic to warn people not to trust his character. If this rant saves one person $8000, then i served yet another good deed for you and friends.

BTW, you can't patent certain product or designs, and they are expensive to pursue regardless. Textiles and things like boats are easy to copy cat. Just change the dimensions by a fraction of a fraction of one inch in either direction and it's "legal" to pursue.

But there is a moral character standard that should, but doesn't always, exist within American Capitalism. Authenticity and originality should be legally required to some degree, although it certainly isn't. But when I defended this country's interest as a teenager in the Gulf War, I learned that what separates people in our country is the degree of a moral backbone. He has a thin moral structure and karma will likely wax his short and curlys one day!

LB, out

Are you saying that you invented inflatable rafts? Or, what are you saying? I think a lot of companies make inflatable rafts.

 

[BBob]

Are you saying that you invented inflatable rafts? Or, what are you saying? I think a lot of companies make inflatable rafts.

I believe he’s saying (and what I got from reading his post) is that the guy copied all the improvements he made to the inflatable rafts.

 

[Q child]

I believe he’s saying (and what I got from reading his post) is that the guy copied all the improvements he made to the inflatable rafts.

Huh. The rafts in these photos look pretty typical to me. Checking out. Good luck to all raft makers caught in this beef.

 

[z987k]

I believe he’s saying (and what I got from reading his post) is that the guy copied all the improvements he made to the inflatable rafts.

Another guy did this up here. There was a guy, maybe still is, that took the saturn kaboats and had the company that made them make them more durable, more chambers, more likely to survive alaska. Then a few years later another company came out with the exact same thing, but different colors. There's only 1 company in china making these for all 3(at least) of the companies selling them as their product. If you contact the Chinese directly, they'll sell you the other companies designed boat at a fraction of the price. They don't care in the slightest about anything except selling another one.

 

[BBob]

Not just this post but others I’ve read where others have discussed some of the finer points to his designs. It may just appear to be an inflatable raft but some of his designs have been positively discussed.

Knockoffs are prevalent, I get it but it still bugs me. The blatant Leofoto tripod knockoffs are another. They are everywhere and won’t stop but it doesn’t make it acceptable.

 

[Q child]

Not just this post but others I’ve read where others have discussed some of the finer points to his designs. It may just appear to be an inflatable raft but some of his designs have been positively discussed.

Knockoffs are prevalent, I get it but it still bugs me. The blatant Leofoto tripod knockoffs are another. They are everywhere and won’t stop but it doesn’t make it acceptable.

No doubt. They look like nice rafts.

BTW, you can't patent certain product or designs, and they are expensive to pursue regardless. Textiles and things like boats are easy to copy cat. Just change the dimensions by a fraction of a fraction of one inch in either direction and it's "legal" to pursue.

If you cannot own something then it cannot be stolen from you.