Troy Session AK Hunt Planner a thief?

[Panhandler80]

fair enough fella's, i'm glad you asked for more info:

When he was a railroad engineer and made videos as a side hussle as Duck Shack Production (<7 years ago roughly), he was also flying hunter "friends" (who i know) into the field without a Part 135 certifcate. He started buying TAG Bags from me and eventually traded some flying for a Pro Pioneer (my 1st SOAR design). He did the flying for the moose hunt in Float Hunting Alaska (Volume 3) for that trade. He asked for advice on getting into the hunting industry with some gadget he used to attract bull moose (it was crap) He asked a lot of questions about Hunt Planning and product development, etc. I told him honestly everything i could to help him succeed by avoiding my personal mistakes.

Fast forward to about five years ago and he started doing commercial flying for "friends" into a river system I use for Hunt Planning. He also landed on a lake nearby in the Kanuti flats and chainsawed 150 square yards of trees to make room for his wings to turn 180 degrees and to gain access to the shoreline. That was on Kanuti Refuge. Not environmentally friendly practice and also against the law.

Two years ago he started renting my PR49 and Kork for his expanding hunt planning business (surprise #1). He'd return them filthy and bloody but sometimes not until spring the next season. Moldy and damaged from misuse.

This year or last he decided to branch out into game bags. He took the look that I created for his stuff sacks so they look like TAG Bags, only he inverted the orange and black colors.

This year he never called for renting my inflatables, but he did manage to produce a strikingly similar version complete with the mesh seats and suspension design that I innovated for my rafts. The handles, the d-rings, the general shape and function...all copies upon copies upon copies of what my intellect created.

Call it the American Way or free enterprise, but call it what it really is too: Leeching from the hand that fed you!

Troy Session has lost my respect and my friendship without so much as a wrap around before doing what he'll continue doing to others until someone says, no thank you, sir. I am that man. And i'm lamenting poopoo about him so that no one in this community assumes that because his products look exactly like mine that they should trust him or them. They shouldn't. I am not only opposite of what he does and is but also unapologetic to warn people not to trust his character. If this rant saves one person $8000, then i served yet another good deed for you and friends.

BTW, you can't patent certain product or designs, and they are expensive to pursue regardless. Textiles and things like boats are easy to copy cat. Just change the dimensions by a fraction of a fraction of one inch in either direction and it's "legal" to pursue.

But there is a moral character standard that should, but doesn't always, exist within American Capitalism. Authenticity and originality should be legally required to some degree, although it certainly isn't. But when I defended this country's interest as a teenager in the Gulf War, I learned that what separates people in our country is the degree of a moral backbone. He has a thin moral structure and karma will likely wax his short and curlys one day!

LB, out

Wow!

I'll say this as a Floridian who has never been to Alaska, let alone hunt... I reached out to quite a few people in hopes of putting together a 2021 hunt, which then became a 2022 hunt, and is now not even on the radar thanks to a handful of unbelievable circumstances and unfortunate events.

THAT being said... Larry was one of a VERY SMALL handful of people who was more than willing to be of assistance during our planning process. Yeah, I bought a book and a couple CDs from him, but he was helpful prior to that, and was so quite happily.

Larry, thank you! Helping somebody out only to pay for it (financially or emotionally) in the end is a real pisser. I know of way too many deckhands who have learned a charter fishery from awesome captains, who go on to start their own operation. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but once operational there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. The wrong way involves calling former customers, downloading coordinates of the boat / photo copying (or even stealing) a book of number, sharing learned unique techniques with the masses, trash talking your mentor online / at bars, and so on.

Sounds like Mr. Sessions did it the wrong way. Ugh.

 

[Kevin Dill]

People see someone being successful at a certain endeavor and then attempt to emulate it...usually with much accompanying hype and fanfare. Often it happens to involve direct competition against the originator of said business. We see it everywhere. You almost can't think of an enterprise or business type which is immune to this behavior. I build a nice hotel....here comes Super 8 to suck off some bookings. What makes it particularly reviling to me is when a business either employs or somehow aids a guy who then uses that experience or knowledge to compete against the business....typically in their backyard.

Some of the best examples I know of are custom bow builders. I've seen it many times. The builder works decades to learn his craft.... he builds a clientele.... and his product is well recognized. Along the way he hires someone to help with building bows, and of course they learn the process. It looks way too easy and they soon launch their own business. Inevitably the 'new' bow line has a definite resemblance to the original, and it's pretty obvious what the game is. Copy and compete. Most of them die out in 2-5 years.

Not much you can do unless a product or idea carries a patent. This is one reason why all my employees sign a very legal non-compete agreement when they start work. I'm not in business to teach my future competitors how to start their own similar business. Of course, this won't work when it comes down to helping a supposed friend or acquaintance who eventually goes head-to-head with you.

 

[Mt Al]

But there is a moral character standard that should, but doesn't always, exist within American Capitalism. Authenticity and originality should be legally required to some degree, although it certainly isn't.

This is a huge issue in the outdoor industry. His other raft in the picture is a Kaboat knock off. Not only small companies ripping off small companies, but Big Box (fill in name here) knocks off small, independent, innovative companies all the time. It's immoral and disgusting and perfectly legal. As LB stated, IP on sewn products is very difficult. Go on Alibaba and look at the many raft manufacturers. All you have to do is send a picture of what you want (PR 49, Kaboat, etc.) and they'll make them for you.

"They" try to cover things like authenticity, originality through a design patent, but that's hard too. I think Orvis protected their green color in the past. Funny to see Vortex "cut paste" Swarovski's colors and design on spotters.

Bummer LB! Your reputation speaks for itself.

 

[tdhanses]

I’m guessing he’s talking about the rafts. They look very similar to Larry’s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Plus the TAG game bag copies.

 

[Panhandler80]

Bummer LB! Your reputation speaks for itself.

 

[AKDoc]

I'm troubled to hear this happened to you LB, and it goes without saying for me (but I'll say it anyway), that I believe every word of your story.

We human beings are a highly diverse (perhaps even over-rated) species for sure...capable of great good and untold ugliness. Without any doubt in my mind, you are one of the good guys LB. I've come to know you over the past years, not only as a loyal customer, but also talking together and sharing pictures about one of our favorite rivers in western AK that we have in common. The PR-49HD's and Korks that my friend and I have each bought from you have been an integral part of some truly ineffable life adventures for both of us and our family members. I am forever grateful to you...and your generous support to fellow veterans

You will prevail LB. I know that you know that.

 

[Will_m]

I can certainly see the anger here, but it is sort of capitalism if I'm understanding the situation (or part of it correctly). Copying a successful, unprotected, design is the name of the game. Not saying your prices aren't fair or that the way you do business needs to be challenged, but it is the nature of the game. Something works, people copy, competition rises and the consumer benefits (supposedly).

I would definitely be careful about calling him a thief on a public forum. Subjectively, I don't see you doing anything wrong and agree with you. But a man, money and a lawyer can make you miserable.

 

[Beendare]

If the guy is shady...it will catch up to him....

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I'd recommend taking the high road and either ignoring this guy entirely or posting a polite warning on your website advising potential customers to beware of look-a-likes (of which there will likely be more to come if it's that lucrative of a business) that aren't genuine Pristine Ventures products. Publicly airing your personal grievances, besmirching a guy's reputation with non-falsifiable claims, and calling the guy a "thief" when he didn't actually steal anything you own isn't the route I'd take. If the guy is as unscrupulous as you claim, the quality of the products and services he offers will suffer accordingly. Don't wrestle with pigs...you both get dirty and the pig likes it.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

True dat, MightyMouse!

 

[Tbone58]

That’s to bad that happened. It seems like more and more people are looking to just use someone for a connection to do something or get a head. Keep up the good honest work and things will work out for you

 

[ELKhunter60]

Well Larry, when you don't respond to people inquiring about a moose hunt, people need to look for other options. Just sayin.

 

[def90]

View attachment 204242

I can't even fathom how anyone in the know would support a man like this, but it doesn't sit well with me at all. Guys like this make me disappointed in the human enterprise.

It is rare that I make a personal opinion about anyone unless it's absolutely necessary for public protection against potential cracks in their hunting experience.

Traveler be warned, this guy is using my style, reputation, and innovations to get ahead of his own lack of authenticity and pigging backing off my intellectual properties. Vomit is literally in my craw.

Makes me sick to think how he'll operate service to the AK hunting community.

And if you're in the market for knock-off TAG Bags, he has those now too:

https://www.facebook.com/60inchclub/photos/a.1862563703955199/2688644254680469

Good luck, Troy, you have lost my respect and support.

larry

so.. you somehow have a patent on self bailing rafts? Or did you bet the idea from someone else?

also, the game bags are copies of Caribou Gear, not yours.

Magnum Pack Large - M.O.B. (Meat On Bone) for Moose and Buffalo

The best reusable game bags for moose

www.caribougear.com

 

[NUGGET]

so.. you somehow have a patent on self bailing rafts? Or did you bet the idea from someone else?

also, the game bags are copies of Caribou Gear, not yours.

Magnum Pack Large - M.O.B. (Meat On Bone) for Moose and Buffalo

The best reusable game bags for moose

www.caribougear.com

Ummmm actually caribou bags came out after Larry’s.

 

[tdhanses]

Ummmm actually caribou bags came out after Larry’s.

I remember when caribou came to market copying Larry’s bags, been awhile and most have forgotten.

 

[gbflyer]

Alaska is a Monkey See Monkey Do place from ice to rainforest. I’ve come to accept this. The cream always rises to the top.

 

[NUGGET]

I remember when caribou came to market copying Larry’s bags, been awhile and most have forgotten.

True story.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

def90, I single handedly created the synthetic game bag market in the early 2000s. That means any synthetic game bags you see today resulted from my work, science, R&D and faith in the concept. That's not a brag report, just the fact. Caribou gear was the first to copy my work.

Of course i didn't create the "self bailing" raft design, but im not clear you have a point since i haven't mentioned anything about self bailing features.

A copy of a copy of a copy is what I'm stating.

 

[beachbunny]

LB, i ran a flying biz for 20 yrs. 2 of my "friends " saw me making money while they languished, next thing i know ,boom,doing my thing with my advertising,
karmas a bitch, one plane wrecked in the fog, got a piece of his skull somewhere in the hangar as a "dont f up" reminder.the other flipped and totalled (sounded like a giant weed whacker) got a piece of his prop nailed on a wall in the hangar as another "dont f up" reminder.
when i get back ,i'll be buying a 49 but the virus has me stuck south.

 

[Huntindog45]

dude i know you are angry but posts like this likely will only make things worse. take high road. work harder. make a better product. good luck dude.