Training for The Uphill Athlete Scott Johnston New Hunting Podcast

[mtwarden]

Here's mine, but bear in mind I'm 68 years old, so maybe adjust upward if younger????—.75 (bw) for overhead press, 1.25 (bw) for bench, 1.5 (bw) squat, 1.75 (bw) deadlift

I just got up to three sets (dispersed throughout a 45-ish minute workout) of 25 pullups (30 chin-ups on the other day)—If I hold that for a month or so, I'll start going weighted.

 

[P Carter]

Here's mine, but bear in mind I'm 68 years old, so maybe adjust upward if younger????—.75 (bw) for overhead press, 1.25 (bw) for bench, 1.5 (bw) squat, 1.75 (bw) deadlift

I just got up to three sets (dispersed throughout a 45-ish minute workout) of 25 pullups (30 chin-ups on the other day)—If I hold that for a month or so, I'll start going weighted.

You are an inspiration, thanks for this. I’m at .6ish for oh press, don’t bench (shoulder injury).

I seem to be stuck at 15 for pull-ups, been there about a month, thinking the weighted would be good to break through or at least mix it up.

3x25 is great, and at 68…

Edit: Actually, .7 for oh press as the calculated 1 rep max. .6x bodyweight for 5 reps.

 

[pattimusprime22]

Here's mine, but bear in mind I'm 68 years old, so maybe adjust upward if younger????—.75 (bw) for overhead press, 1.25 (bw) for bench, 1.5 (bw) squat, 1.75 (bw) deadlift

I just got up to three sets (dispersed throughout a 45-ish minute workout) of 25 pullups (30 chin-ups on the other day)—If I hold that for a month or so, I'll start going weighted.

Holy moly. 3x25!! Very impressive at any age.

I must have some pullup strength endurance issues because I always tap out around 15. Probably could grit out a few more but really don't want to. I keep progressing by adding weight, and can manage 8ish reps with +45.

 

[S.Clancy]

Genuine question here: what are some realistic/good-enough type strength thresholds for endurance-focused athletes?

Rightly or wrongly, I've zeroed in on 1.5x bodyweight for squat and deadlift.

I think that's probably a bit low on deadlift--maybe target 2x bodyweight for deadlift?

These are roughly derived from the Uphill Athlete material + a few years' experience. And they're calculated 1 rep max, based on 4 sets of 5.

For upper body, I've found through experience that 3 sets of 10 pullups, and 1 unbroken set of 50 pushups, is a minimum for me: if I can't do that, my arms get tired and sore from hauling a bow around all day.

I've sinced upped the pullups to 3 x 15, but will move on to weighted pullups once I do 3 x 15. Upping the reps from 15 seems silly, but that's based on nothing.

Thoughts welcome, appreciate the discussion.

Depends what "endurance focused" means to you and how much fatigue you are creating trying to get to those targets. IMO, focus on whatever you are weak at. If you need to get stronger, focus on strength and put endurance on the back burner for a while.

Caution: If you train for strength consistently you will gain weight which will negatively impact your endurance output. I've been lifting for like 20 years, never in a real body-building style, but over time the volume builds up and you gain muscle which takes oxygen to support. There is a sweet spot of muscle mass and endurance. I know I had better endurance at 165 lbs than 185-190 lbs. But, I can break down a bull just fine by myself now, so there are trade-offs.

Another note: I sometimes set a timer and do as many pull-ups in 15-20 min as possible, which ends up being sets of 5 every 30 seconds or so. Doing this for 4-6 weeks then going back to your normal sets of pull-ups always made a huge difference. Results may vary.

 

[mtwarden]

Just to clarify —the three sets of pullups/chinups are during my roughly 45 minute workout, certainly not back to back—roughly 10-12 minutes between the sets and NO weight. My usual MO is to do a primary set (bench/squats one day, deadlifts/oh press the other) and then an accessory lift right after—dips/core/lunges/pullup/chinups/etc

 

[h2so4]

Overhead press- are we doing strict or a little dip? 1.0 for strict
Back squat - 1.7
Deadlift- 2
@mtwarden solid work on those sets of 25 pull ups!!

 

[P Carter]

Just to clarify —the three sets of pullups/chinups are during my roughly 45 minute workout, certainly not back to back—roughly 10-12 minutes between the sets and NO weight. My usual MO is to do a primary set (bench/squats one day, deadlifts/oh press the other) and then an accessory lift right after—dips/core/lunges/pullup/chinups/etc

I either subconsciously copied you, or we both copied from a common source, or stumbled to something very similar - I do one day deadlift/bent over row and one day squat/oh press. That way I don’t have to reset the bar height, so lazy!

Warmup is jump rope for 5 mins, then pull-ups/hip band x 3, then core lift for the day. Simple and repeatable but not fancy.

Thanks to all for sharing.

 

[Poser]

Genuine question here: what are some realistic/good-enough type strength thresholds for endurance-focused athletes?

Rightly or wrongly, I've zeroed in on 1.5x bodyweight for squat and deadlift.

I think that's probably a bit low on deadlift--maybe target 2x bodyweight for deadlift?

These are roughly derived from the Uphill Athlete material + a few years' experience. And they're calculated 1 rep max, based on 4 sets of 5.

For upper body, I've found through experience that 3 sets of 10 pullups, and 1 unbroken set of 50 pushups, is a minimum for me: if I can't do that, my arms get tired and sore from hauling a bow around all day.

I've sinced upped the pullups to 3 x 15, but will move on to weighted pullups once I do 3 x 15. Upping the reps from 15 seems silly, but that's based on nothing.

Thoughts welcome, appreciate the discussion.

I think anything in that ballpark (1.5-2x btw squat/deadlift) is reasonable, practical, readily attainable and offers substantial benefits in terms of injury prevention, bone density improvement and longevity. I’d add a body equivalent weight bench press for some amount of reps

 

[Truck24hr]

Hey guys, I understand the ME workouts with a weighted pack and hiking steep inclines, but I haven't heard exactly how these look for runners.

I've got a 950' climb over two miles, and all I've heard him mention was using a weight vest with 20ish pounds for runners.

I'm thinking of doing these climbs twice, and running back down unloaded.

Should I maybe split these into (4) 475' climbs?

Any thoughts would be appreciated

 

[mtwarden]

I’m pretty sure he advocates for ~20 lbs as that’s probably double (or more) what a trail runner would normally be carrying and you wouldn’t need more.

I’d start with one single climb/descent and see how that goes. I’d keep the 20 lbs for the descent—you want the eccentric work. Any trail race I’ve done had as much descent as ascent.

The dumping of the weight after the climb makes sense with high weights where there is a higher likelihood of injury on the descent.

Even for hunting, I want to do the eccentric work—if I feel it’s too steep for the weight I’m carrying, I’ll just find a less steep way down.

 

[Truck24hr]

I’m pretty sure he advocates for ~20 lbs as that’s probably double (or more) what a trail runner would normally be carrying and you wouldn’t need more.

I’d start with one single climb/descent and see how that goes. I’d keep the 20 lbs for the descent—you want the eccentric work. Any trail race I’ve done had as much descent as ascent.

The dumping of the weight after the climb makes sense with high weights where there is a higher likelihood of injury on the descent.

Even for hunting, I want to do the eccentric work—if I feel it’s too steep for the weight I’m carrying, I’ll just find a less steep way down.

Thanks for the info. I'll be starting these for a few weeks. I'll post how they go.

 

[P Carter]

Thanks for the info. I'll be starting these for a few weeks. I'll post how they go.

I think he provides a lot of detail on these workout in the first evoke podcasts after Ruth Croft and tom evans won utmb. I know he did an in-depth series but I can’t recall whether he just discussed the concepts, or whether he goes into specific workouts. Either way, might be worth listening to.

 

[Truck24hr]

I think he provides a lot of detail on these workout in the first evoke podcasts after Ruth Croft and tom evans won utmb. I know he did an in-depth series but I can’t recall whether he just discussed the concepts, or whether he goes into specific workouts. Either way, might be worth listening to.

Thanks, I'll find it and give that one a listen.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

Hey guys, I understand the ME workouts with a weighted pack and hiking steep inclines, but I haven't heard exactly how these look for runners.

I've got a 950' climb over two miles, and all I've heard him mention was using a weight vest with 20ish pounds for runners.

I'm thinking of doing these climbs twice, and running back down unloaded.

Should I maybe split these into (4) 475' climbs?

Any thoughts would be appreciated

You can try the 20 lbs if you think it’s manageable, and the full climb too. Just have a flatter and easier run the next day and give at least few days before the next go around.

I am not sure if you were planning on hiking or running the climb, but try to run it if that is the target activity. Just make sure to back off the pace enough.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

@thinhorn_AK What do your rowing workouts look like? Are you doing Z2 on it or higher intensity, intervals etc? I have a rower, but can't really figure out what the best use of my time on it would be.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

@thinhorn_AK What do your rowing workouts look like? Are you doing Z2 on it or higher intensity, intervals etc? I have a rower, but can't really figure out what the best use of my time on it would be.

I’ll chip in here since I have been rowing for years. I can’t claim expertise, just experience. I’m also interested in learning from thinhorn and others.

I come from a rowing family, but I was an endurance runner (too small for an oarsman). Just like running, you have to vary the time, pace, and intensity if you want to get better.

My exercise budget is one hour calisthenics, weights, and high intensity cardio, with at least one hour of hiking/walking. I am currently 47, 5’10”, 187. Goal is to be 5’10, 172 by age 49.

I personally do Peloton workouts using the app and a thing that holds my phone on top of my Concept2. I find it easier to push myself with a cute Asian or pretty English girl telling me what to do.

Sunday - no rowing (long hike day)
Milestone Monday - 5000 for time (goal of under 20 minutes)
Tabata Tuesday - 20 minutes Tabata
Wild Wednesday - 20 minutes HIIT
Thirty for Thursday - 30 minutes endurance
Friday ends in Five - 15 minutes HIIT
Satisfying Saturday - 20 minutes easy row

I’m considering making Friday an even longer row (Forty for Friday). I need to see how my body responds over time to what I’m currently doing.

These are shifting numbers (they should get better over time), but my paces are currently:
Recovery - 2:15 to 2:20 per 500
Easy - 2:11 to 2:15 per 500
Moderate - 2:07 to 2:11 per 500
Challenging - 2:03 to 2:07 per 500
Max - 1:57 to 2:01 per 500

My goal is to get my moderate to around 2:00 per 500 with the other paces roughly 10 seconds faster or slower per level. Prior to breaking my leg, my Moderate was 2:05 and my Max was 1:45 to 1:50.

Edit - my memory is apparently garbage, so here are some pictures from my morning workout. I am pretty happy with this performance (bearing in mind I did 25 minutes of calisthenics and weights beforehand).

There was an interruption a couple of minutes into the row this morning and I had to pause for one minute.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I’ll chip in here since I have been rowing for years. I can’t claim expertise, just experience. I’m also interested in learning from thinhorn and others.

I come from a rowing family, but I was an endurance runner (too small for an oarsman). Just like running, you have to vary the time, pace, and intensity if you want to get better.

My exercise budget is one hour calisthenics, weights, and high intensity cardio, with at least one hour of hiking/walking. I am currently 47, 5’10”, 187. Goal is to be 5’10, 172 by age 49.

I personally do Peloton workouts using the app and a thing that holds my phone on top of my Concept2. I find it easier to push myself with a cute Asian or pretty English girl telling me what to do.

Sunday - no rowing (long hike day)
Milestone Monday - 5000 for time (goal of Tabata Tuesday - 20 minutes Tabata
Wild Wednesday - 20 minutes HIIT
Thirty for Thursday - 30 minutes endurance
Friday ends in Five - 15 minutes HIIT
Satisfying Saturday - 20 minutes easy row

I’m considering making Friday an even longer row (Forty for Friday). I need to see how my body responds over time to what I’m currently doing.

These are shifting numbers (they should get better over time), but my paces are currently:
Resting - 2:15 to 2:20 per 500
Easy - 2:11 to 2:15 per 500
Moderate - 2:07 to 2:11 per 500
Challenging - 2:03 to 2:07 per 500
Max - 1:57 to 2:01 per 500

My goal is to get my moderate to around 2:00 per 500 with the other paces roughly 10 seconds faster or slower per level. Prior to breaking my leg, my Moderate was 2:05 and my Max was 1:45 to 1:50.

Edit - my memory is apparently garbage, so here are some pictures from my morning workout. I am pretty happy with this performance (bearing in mind I did 25 minutes of calisthenics and weights beforehand).

There was an interruption a couple of minutes into the row this morning and I had to pause for one minute.

That’s some great detail. Thank you.

 

[mtwarden]

@B_Reynolds_AK not a rower, but I’d treat a rower like a bike, treadmill, etc

Get plenty of Z2 with it, and then mix in a little Z3/4 with it.

If you’re already getting plenty of Z2 other ways, you could use the rower for some Z3/4 stuff.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

@thinhorn_AK What do your rowing workouts look like? Are you doing Z2 on it or higher intensity, intervals etc? I have a rower, but can't really figure out what the best use of my time on it would be.

Both zone 2 and higher intensity. The problem with doing zone 2 on it is the same problem with doing zone 2 on any indoor workout apparatus, it can get boring but I’ll do a longer ~ 90 minute session each week in the winter.

For intensity I like things like 6x500, timed 2k at the end of a longer row (like a 10k) or the occasional all out 5k/10k.

I try to row 40-50k a week on that thing in addition to my kettlebell and strength workouts. Just doing what i do on it, I’ve managed to get times that would be fairly competitive at a club rowing event (or so I was told by a guy who is just a rower) whatever that means. It seems strange that people would base their entire hobby/fitness routine around an indoor rower but I guess guys do.

It’s also great for easier recovery workouts when you just need something easy to get the blood moving. I think if you did a steady state row once a week, an interval session and a tempo type row weekly you’d get some benefits.