Trail cams being outlawed, thoughts?

[prm]

I agree cell cams have changed the game. Never had an issue with cameras before. Briefly hunted a lease where many guys had MANY cameras. It was like being monitored at all times. Even had a buddy get texted as he was walking in with manager questioning where he was going. (Turns out my buddy was on to a big deer the manager was after). Very weird and removed the feeling of solitude in the woods.
I really don’t want to be in a wilderness area and stumbling across cell cameras.

I have a handful of my own cell cameras, but my experience leads me to think not having them on public lands is fine with me.

 

[bowhuntrben]

This weekend I was watching a youtube video of Chris Bee. He was in a treestand saddle and was getting phone messages from his trail cameras showing where the deer that he hunting was located on the property. He knew in real time where that deer was located while he was hunting. This should not be legal. I was initially turned off that he was giving names to the deer on the farm, but once he started to get photos sent to his phone I'd had enough. I'm not one to tell people how they should hunt, but there needs to be a definition of "fair chase" and this definition will need to adapt to changing technologies.

Now that's bad. Cell cameras used in that way is just wrong. For me, this is right up there with "The Duke" for needing to be put out there for the world to see.

 

[HuntHarder]

That is pretty crappy just calling this guy a liar. Maybe you should be held to the same standards and post proof that you talked to the Chief LEO in AZ and his response was pretty clear and concise... Also, I have delt with calling a few times for "clarification" on rules and have had to pull out the actual laws and show LEO because they didn't know what the rules actually were...My favorite is when I called Colorado Parks and Wildlife HQ and asked about clarification for their muzzleloading rules regarding ball sizes for big game. The rules say that you have to use a 54 cal rife if you are using a patched ball, and the ball diameter for elk has to be 54...Patched 54Cal rifles shoot .520 to .535 cal balls. None of them could figure out what to do and they said they would call me back. It's been 3 years now and book says the same thing. Point is, it wouldn't surprise me if he talked to multiple people and got multiple answers.

Gene Elms <[email protected]>​	Tue, Jan 4, 9:02 AM
to BILLYBLASER, [email protected], Kurt

Billy, thank you for your questions. While there are endless what-if scenarios that can be generated about cameras and the new rule I will answer your question this way.

The new rule states:
R12-4-303.5: A person shall not place, maintain or use a trail camera or images, video, or location, time or date data from a trail camera, for the purpose of taking or aiding in the take of wildlife, or locating wildlife for the purpose of taking or aiding in the take of wildlife.

So for the purposes of your questions, any photograph and/or data captured by a trail camera after January 1, 2022 and used for the take or aiding in the take of wildlife will be unlawful, even if that was not the initial intended use of the trail camera. This data is not limited to a photograph of a specific animal, all knowledge gained by the use of the camera will be unlawful as well. There is no time limit on that knowledge, if it is gained after January 1, 2022, it is unlawful.



Gene Elms | LAW ENFORCEMENT BRANCH CHIEF
ARIZONA GAME AND FISH DEPARTMENT
OFFICE: 623.236.7307
MOBILE: 623.694.5044
EMAIL: [email protected]
azgfd.gov | 5000 W. Carefree Highway, Phoenix, AZ 85086

Join our new Conservation Membership program and ensure a wildlife legacy for the future.

 

[SuperDUECE22]

I think they should be illegal on state/BLM land during hunting season (must be removed 10 days prior to any open big game season). I personally run 5 cell cams on private land, but I have them set up to transmit photos once a day after dark & it wouldn't bother me one bit if they were outlawed all together.

 

[HuntHarder]

The particular law I am talking about is the new Utah one, but I have land in Colorado, NM, and soon ID. (Colorado law is much better than this new one in Utah. ) It is pretty irrelevant what state though, unless there are differences regarding public and private placement of cameras. I don't think AZ differentiates, just as Utah and Colorado don't. You didn't answer my question about going to court. I take it you think that is not punishment to go and get a lawyer/go to court to not pay a fine? Also, how is it skirting the law to put cameras on my property to watch for trespassers? When a warden on the BLM sees the cameras, how is he supposed to know what I am doing with them? Am I supposed to go to Which court to "prove my innocence?"

Which question about going to court did I not answer? Yeah, Each state has different laws, so the state def. makes a difference. IIRC Utah is a trail cam season is it not? Az is no trail cams at all. I have a great relationship with some Game managers here in AZ. If I had some situations like you have, I would call the one over in your area and try and hash out any questions you have. Get it in writing and proceed with your life. This isn't the Gov't stripping you of your rights... I see you joined to only post about this issue, so it must be a big issue for you. Instead of whining on the internet, get some Wildlife officers over to your residences and get some written statements. We can what if it, to death, but I am more of a get a clear concise answer and move on....

 

[CorbLand]

The particular law I am talking about is the new Utah one, but I have land in Colorado, NM, and soon ID. (Colorado law is much better than this new one in Utah. ) It is pretty irrelevant what state though, unless there are differences regarding public and private placement of cameras. I don't think AZ differentiates, just as Utah and Colorado don't. You didn't answer my question about going to court. I take it you think that is not punishment to go and get a lawyer/go to court to not pay a fine? Also, how is it skirting the law to put cameras on my property to watch for trespassers? When a warden on the BLM sees the cameras, how is he supposed to know what I am doing with them? Am I supposed to go to court to "prove my innocence?"

You have asked this question many times and you are not going to get a correct answer from a bunch of idiots on a forum. Take your questions to the people that can answer them. Email or call the local fish cops in the areas you own land. A little proactivity will go a long ways on your part.

Most states have added an intent to take clause in the rules. If you are truly putting the cameras up to watch for trespassers, then you are legal. If a warden sees your cameras, he isn't going to know what you are doing with them. This is where your proactivity is going to come into play.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

That is pretty crappy just calling this guy a liar. Maybe you should be held to the same standards and post proof that you talked to the Chief LEO in AZ and his response was pretty clear and concise... Also, I have delt with calling a few times for "clarification" on rules and have had to pull out the actual laws and show LEO because they didn't know what the rules actually were...My favorite is when I called Colorado Parks and Wildlife HQ and asked about clarification for their muzzleloading rules regarding ball sizes for big game. The rules say that you have to use a 54 cal rife if you are using a patched ball, and the ball diameter for elk has to be 54...Patched 54Cal rifles shoot .520 to .535 cal balls. None of them could figure out what to do and they said they would call me back. It's been 3 years now and book says the same thing. Point is, it wouldn't surprise me if he talked to multiple people and got multiple answers.

Thanks. Am good with HuntHarder.

Gene Elms <[email protected]>​	Tue, Jan 4, 9:02 AM
to BILLYBLASER, [email protected], Kurt

Billy, thank you for your questions. While there are endless what-if scenarios that can be generated about cameras and the new rule I will answer your question this way.

The new rule states:
R12-4-303.5: A person shall not place, maintain or use a trail camera or images, video, or location, time or date data from a trail camera, for the purpose of taking or aiding in the take of wildlife, or locating wildlife for the purpose of taking or aiding in the take of wildlife.

So for the purposes of your questions, any photograph and/or data captured by a trail camera after January 1, 2022 and used for the take or aiding in the take of wildlife will be unlawful, even if that was not the initial intended use of the trail camera. This data is not limited to a photograph of a specific animal, all knowledge gained by the use of the camera will be unlawful as well. There is no time limit on that knowledge, if it is gained after January 1, 2022, it is unlawful.



Gene Elms | LAW ENFORCEMENT BRANCH CHIEF
ARIZONA GAME AND FISH DEPARTMENT
OFFICE: 623.236.7307
MOBILE: 623.694.5044
EMAIL: [email protected]
azgfd.gov | 5000 W. Carefree Highway, Phoenix, AZ 85086

Join our new Conservation Membership program and ensure a wildlife legacy for the future.

Cool but it is still jacked up. If I have a hunting license and use a camera to monitor camp (even if not hunting), then I pray that no animal in season walks flies by.

They should have just said cameras cannot be used by any licensed guide or anyone with a hunting license.

Gene Elms <[email protected]>​	Tue, Jan 4, 9:02 AM
to BILLYBLASER, [email protected], Kurt

Billy, thank you for your questions. While there are endless what-if scenarios that can be generated about cameras and the new rule I will answer your question this way.

The new rule states:
R12-4-303.5: A person shall not place, maintain or use a trail camera or images, video, or location, time or date data from a trail camera, for the purpose of taking or aiding in the take of wildlife, or locating wildlife for the purpose of taking or aiding in the take of wildlife.

So for the purposes of your questions, any photograph and/or data captured by a trail camera after January 1, 2022 and used for the take or aiding in the take of wildlife will be unlawful, even if that was not the initial intended use of the trail camera. This data is not limited to a photograph of a specific animal, all knowledge gained by the use of the camera will be unlawful as well. There is no time limit on that knowledge, if it is gained after January 1, 2022, it is unlawful.



Gene Elms | LAW ENFORCEMENT BRANCH CHIEF
ARIZONA GAME AND FISH DEPARTMENT
OFFICE: 623.236.7307
MOBILE: 623.694.5044
EMAIL: [email protected]
azgfd.gov | 5000 W. Carefree Highway, Phoenix, AZ 85086

Join our new Conservation Membership program and ensure a wildlife legacy for the future.

Thanks for posting it. Partially contradicts what I was told but it is what it is. My cameras have been pulled as it is not worth the risk to me to run cameras for any reason. Just wish Game and Fish did a better job writing the regulation..

The interesting part is the use of "wildlife" (AZ definition at the bottom) and not "big game". So with that wording, anyone with a hunting license may be better off not running a camera anywhere for any reason. Any wildlife can show up at any time on camera, doesn't matter if hunting or not, and you may very well be in violation. Am curious how many folks that use cameras for camp security, yet are proponents of banning cameras, have had any animals AZ identifies as "wildlife", come through camp.

Note: This is straight from the AZ regulations:
B. The following definitions of wildlife shall apply:
1. Aquatic wildlife means fish, amphibians, mollusks, crus- taceans and soft-shelled turtles.
2. Big game means wild turkey, deer, elk, pronghorn (ante- lope), bighorn sheep, bison (buffalo), peccary (javelina), bear and mountain lion.
3. Fur-bearing animals means muskrats, raccoons, otters, weasels, bobcats, beavers, badgers and ringtail cats.
4. Game fish means trout of all species, bass of all species,
catfish of all species, sunfish of all species, northern
pike, walleye and yellow perch.
5. Game mammals means deer, elk, bear, pronghorn (ante-
lope), bighorn sheep, bison (buffalo), peccary (javelina),
mountain lion, tree squirrel and cottontail rabbit.
6. Migratory game birds means wild waterfowl, including ducks, geese and swans, sandhill cranes, all coots, all gallinules, common snipe, wild doves and bandtail
pigeons.
7. Nongame animals means all wildlife except game
mammals, game birds, fur-bearing animals, predatory
animals and aquatic wildlife.
8. Nongame birds means all birds except upland game
birds and migratory game birds.
9. Nongame fish means all the species of fish except game
fish.
10. Predatory animals means foxes, skunks, coyotes and
bobcats.
11. Raptors means birds that are members of the order of
falconiformes or strigiformes and includes falcons, hawks, owls, eagles and other birds that the commis- sion may classify as raptors.
12. Small game means cottontail rabbits, tree squirrels, upland game birds and migratory game birds.
13. Trout means all species of the family salmonidae, including grayling.
14. Upland game birds means quail, partridge, grouse and pheasants.

 

[S-3 ranch]

The stupid outfits up north, don’t understand that a water hole is 1st person there is the hunter , and a game cam will get destroyed by a local ASAP so yeah block them to stop the lunatic local or out of state guys from arguing

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

The stupid outfits up north, don’t understand that a water hole is 1st person there is the hunter , and a game cam will get destroyed by a local ASAP so yeah block them to stop the lunatic local or out of state guys from arguing

It’s a mess.

When they go after fish finders, I’ll have my popcorn ready.

 

[moxford]

Used them 1 year, kind of fun to mess around with.

Would prefer that anything optical, or which has lenses, gets banned, full stop. But that is just me.

It's about going hunting and not going harvesting.

And, yes, it would lighten my own kit substantially.

Cheers,
-mox

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Used them 1 year, kind of fun to mess around with.

Would prefer that anything optical, or which has lenses, gets banned, full stop. But that is just me.

It's about going hunting and not going harvesting.

And, yes, it would lighten my own kit substantially.

Cheers,
-mox

Would be a major boon for those in favor of the revocation of the second amendment.

 

[moxford]

Would be a major boon for those in favor of the revocation of the second amendment.

Um, what? We are talking about optics in a hunting setting here. No scopes, no binos, no spotters, no LRF, no cams, no drones.

Iron/peep/ghost sights, archery pins, string walking, and woodsmanship.

Want to show it off? Hang it on your wall and have your friends over for a beer - more social that way anyways!

Cheers,
-mox

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Um, what? We are talking about optics in a hunting setting here. No scopes, no binos, no spotters, no LRF, no cams, no drones.

Iron/peep/ghost sights, archery pins, string walking, and woodsmanship.

Want to show it off? Hang it on your wall and have your friends over for a beer - more social that way anyways!

Cheers,
-mox

Would render millions of rifles and an untold number of handguns unlawful for hunting. That’s a “win” for the antis since many believe that the second amendment is for hunting; not a position I agree with.

If someone wants to use primitive weapons and it’s legal for where and how they hunt, they can knock themselves out. The same goes with modern weapons. Lots of ways to legally and ethically hunt.

 

[sneaky]

Would render millions of rifles and an untold number of handguns unlawful for hunting. That’s a “win” for the antis since many believe that the second amendment is for hunting; not a position I agree with.

If someone wants to use primitive weapons and it’s legal for where and how they hunt, they can knock themselves out. The same goes with modern weapons. Lots of ways to legally and ethically hunt.

How would that render millions of rifles and handguns unlawful for hunting? Not that hard to put a set of iron sights on. Talk about taking a negative outlook. Wow.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[mrgreyman]

Which question about going to court did I not answer? Yeah, Each state has different laws, so the state def. makes a difference. IIRC Utah is a trail cam season is it not? Az is no trail cams at all. I have a great relationship with some Game managers here in AZ. If I had some situations like you have, I would call the one over in your area and try and hash out any questions you have. Get it in writing and proceed with your life. This isn't the Gov't stripping you of your rights... I see you joined to only post about this issue, so it must be a big issue for you. Instead of whining on the internet, get some Wildlife officers over to your residences and get some written statements. We can what if it, to death, but I am more of a get a clear concise answer and move on....

Sure, I can do that. The guys in Colorado I know personally. You are assuming that I am just thinking about myself. I am not. I am trying to get people to think about what laws they are pushing for and possible ramifications.

 

[Sled]

I really don’t want to be in a wilderness area and stumbling across cell cameras.

How many wilderness areas are getting cell reception in?

 

[jpmulk]

Technology is just getting too far out of control in some ways. I want hunting to be a“hunt”. Not a deal where technology does all of the work and I just squeeze the trigger. Where the line on tech should be drawn can cause quite an argument and I surely don’t have the answer.

I know part of the problem in these dry states is the waterholes are where everyone wants cameras and the arguments and debates and theft that occurs over these water holes is ridiculous and embarrassing as hunters and people. Cameras should just be banned in those places no doubt.

From a selfish standpoint, I get really tired of the number of cameras I encounter on public land. Seems like half the time I stop to take a piss I look up and there’s a camera. I’d be all for banning cameras on public lands.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Hunters, unfortunately, and many on TV shows or YouTube videos have themselves to point at with respect to the technology and showcasing how great it is to see the animals in real time. That's illegal and the video is out on the web for anyone to see.

Scout preseason, spend time in the woods, not behind a screen watching. Maybe this will cut down on the number of people in the woods who don't want to hunt, but happen to be good at following technology breadcrumbs to take an animal.

With respect to going to the bathroom in the woods, if the camera is on public land stuff a dirty piece of toilet paper in the lens and move on.

I don't have sympathy for where it has gotten to. I use technology to take pictures after I have hunted the animals.

 

[CorbLand]

Out of curiosity. How many people have actually gotten a picture of someone pissing and/or shitting on their camera?

I have used cameras for 6 plus years and have never gotten one. I have seen it more through a spotting scope.

 

[Sled]

Out of curiosity. How many people have actually gotten a picture of someone pissing and/or shitting on their camera?

I have used cameras for 6 plus years and have never gotten one. I have seen it more through a spotting scope.

Must be the southern Utahns that have voyeurism tendencies.