Trail cams being outlawed, thoughts?

[huck]

Wont bother me a bit if they get rid of them .I have a couple I use at home ,but in the woods I think you should rely on scouting and paying your dues and not technology to figure things out , just another example of I dont need to know it I can google it . But hey Im an old guy .

 

[bowhuntrben]

Some quick finds of AZ cams, same in Utah

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Yep. If that's a common sight, I can understand why they would be outlawed then.

 

[mrgreyman]

The same person that ultimately decides when EVERY law is broken. The judge or jury.

Nope. The initial assessment is done by someone in the field. You get punished whether you are innocent or not if you have to go to court. That means the person in the field has to be a mind reader. How many of those do you know?

 

[mrgreyman]

Wont bother me a bit if they get rid of them .I have a couple I use at home ,but in the woods I think you should rely on scouting and paying your dues and not technology to figure things out , just another example of I dont need to know it I can google it . But hey Im an old guy .

What do you mean by "at home?" In the woods at home? Do you hunt at home?

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

The problem with the cameras is the lack of consistency between the enforcers, at least in AZ. I specifically asked several game wardens in AZ and did not get a single consistent answer.

Game Warden 1: If you have a hunting license, then I will ticket you for any camera you have out. -- Doesn't matter if it is for non-hunting purposes.

Game Warden 2: I'll allow them if you are on a Governor's or Commissioner's tag through July 31. You'll get the ticket on August 1 if they are still out.

Game Warden 3: I won't ticket you if you have cameras in a unit you are not hunting. But if that camera is 10 feet away from the unit you are hunting, you are ok. --- Meets the letter of the law but goes against the spirit.

Game Warden 4: Good question about having an OTC tag for bear, lion, deer and being able to use a camera anywhere in the state even for non-hunting purposes. Never thought of that. --- WTF are you supposed to do.

Game Warden 5: Good question about bird hunting and having cameras out for non-hunting. Was never considered. -- Technically you cannot run a camera in a unit to capture wildlife and hunt dove, quail, waterfowl, etc in that unit.

Game Warden 5: Good question about using cameras for watching camp sites or private property in the country. Never thought of that.

So run them at your own risk no matter the circumstance. Totally up to the game warden and then ultimately to the courts (if you choose an active defense). This includes looking at photos shown to you, posted on social media, etc. That also can potentially come back and bite you in your ass even though you were not the one using trail cameras.

 

[HuntHarder]

I call bullshit on all those warden responses.... How did you get that many AZGFD officers to respond? and I would love to see some proof of what you just claimed. I went right to the top with the AZGFD Chief LEO. His response was pretty clear and concise..

 

[HuntHarder]

Nope. The initial assessment is done by someone in the field. You get punished whether you are innocent or not if you have to go to court. That means the person in the field has to be a mind reader. How many of those do you know?

Nah... The officer who cites who does not determine if you are guilty or not. In his opinion, you are, but you are still entitled to a trial. No mind readers needed in AZ, pretty clear, if you hunt, and and ALL info from a trail camera will be used against you. You do not need to have pictures of animals on those trail cameras to be in violation. Like I have said before, my most valuable info from a Trail cam comes from knowing there are no animals in an area. So if you sprinkle trailcams in 5 units and only get 0 pictures of animals, you are in violation if you hunt that year. Those trail cameras gave you valuable info as to not hunt in those areas...

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I call bullshit on all those warden responses.... How did you get that many AZGFD officers to respond? and I would love to see some proof of what you just claimed. I went right to the top with the AZGFD Chief LEO. His response was pretty clear and concise..

Asked a GM during a deer hunt. Asked two different GMs while hunting black bear in different parts of the state. Asked two different GMs and a biologist while checking in my bear. Didn't record my conversations with them so I am unable to provide any proof. Doesn't surprise me that the person you spoke to gave a different answer even if he is the boss.

The few remaining cameras that I have were all pulled last fall. The ban doesn't have a negative impact on my hunting. But I will not be putting up cameras for camp security nor for capturing wildlife for the fun of it. Just is not worth the risk to me.

 

[HuntHarder]

Yeah, I will no longer run cams as well. Gave mine to my buddies in ND. No need to try and skirt a law and deal with the hassle. They were a valuable tool, but I have 0 problem getting rid of them as I do think they benefitted the lazy. I would imagine that now that the rule is in effect, a Warden's answer will be more closely aligned with other wardens. Time will tell.

 

[coyotecreek]

This weekend I was watching a youtube video of Chris Bee. He was in a treestand saddle and was getting phone messages from his trail cameras showing where the deer that he hunting was located on the property. He knew in real time where that deer was located while he was hunting. This should not be legal. I was initially turned off that he was giving names to the deer on the farm, but once he started to get photos sent to his phone I'd had enough. I'm not one to tell people how they should hunt, but there needs to be a definition of "fair chase" and this definition will need to adapt to changing technologies.

 

[mrgreyman]

Nah... The officer who cites who does not determine if you are guilty or not. In his opinion, you are, but you are still entitled to a trial. No mind readers needed in AZ, pretty clear, if you hunt, and and ALL info from a trail camera will be used against you. You do not need to have pictures of animals on those trail cameras to be in violation. Like I have said before, my most valuable info from a Trail cam comes from knowing there are no animals in an area. So if you sprinkle trailcams in 5 units and only get 0 pictures of animals, you are in violation if you hunt that year. Those trail cameras gave you valuable info as to not hunt in those areas...

So you like to go to court? Is that fun for you? To me that is punishment right there...It doesn't matter if it gets dismissed or not. You are still being punished.

 

[HuntHarder]

So you like to go to court? Is that fun for you? To me that is punishment right there...It doesn't matter if it gets dismissed or not. You are still being punished.

Try to skirt laws, you have to deal with the consequences. If you think you're right, take it to court. Don't use trail cameras when you are not suppose to, you have no worries. Seems easy to me.

 

[mrgreyman]

Try to skirt laws, you have to deal with the consequences. If you think you're right, take it to court. Don't use trail cameras when you are not suppose to, you have no worries. Seems easy to me.

So if I put cameras on my property which butts up against BLM land to monitor for tresspassers how is that "skirting the law?" How is that using trail cameras "when you are not supposed to?"

 

[HuntHarder]

So if I put cameras on my property which butts up against BLM land to monitor for tresspassers how is that "skirting the law?" How is that using trail cameras "when you are not supposed to?"

what state?

 

[Still Hunter]

I often put two trail Cameras at my Campsite. The purpose is to observe the two legged predators. I will generally place two cameras out on two separate Wallows that I have found over the years to see which is getting hit more frequently. With only 6-7 days to hunt it helps to locate the elk in the vicinity but I do not use the cellular type cameras. The locations are two drainages apart and about 1.5 Miles as a crow flies. There are some years I never get to check the cameras due to where I do find the elk and on that last day I always have to make the trip to go get back to get both of them. I will respect and abide by any laws they pass regarding the Cameras. I have never been in favor of the real time Cellular Cameras as they seemed unethical to me.

 

[mrgreyman]

what state?

The particular law I am talking about is the new Utah one, but I have land in Colorado, NM, and soon ID. (Colorado law is much better than this new one in Utah. ) It is pretty irrelevant what state though, unless there are differences regarding public and private placement of cameras. I don't think AZ differentiates, just as Utah and Colorado don't. You didn't answer my question about going to court. I take it you think that is not punishment to go and get a lawyer/go to court to not pay a fine? Also, how is it skirting the law to put cameras on my property to watch for trespassers? When a warden on the BLM sees the cameras, how is he supposed to know what I am doing with them? Am I supposed to go to court to "prove my innocence?"

 

[mrgreyman]

I call bullshit on all those warden responses.... How did you get that many AZGFD officers to respond? and I would love to see some proof of what you just claimed. I went right to the top with the AZGFD Chief LEO. His response was pretty clear and concise..

That is pretty crappy just calling this guy a liar. Maybe you should be held to the same standards and post proof that you talked to the Chief LEO in AZ and his response was pretty clear and concise... Also, I have delt with calling a few times for "clarification" on rules and have had to pull out the actual laws and show LEO because they didn't know what the rules actually were...My favorite is when I called Colorado Parks and Wildlife HQ and asked about clarification for their muzzleloading rules regarding ball sizes for big game. The rules say that you have to use a 54 cal rife if you are using a patched ball, and the ball diameter for elk has to be 54...Patched 54Cal rifles shoot .520 to .535 cal balls. None of them could figure out what to do and they said they would call me back. It's been 3 years now and book says the same thing. Point is, it wouldn't surprise me if he talked to multiple people and got multiple answers.

 

[Torino]

Never used trail cams personally. Never understood why it was legal to leave private property unattended on public land, such as trail cams and tree stands. I kept my vote out of it though. I don’t know enough to form any sort of real opinion.

 

[gilby]

I got a chuckle from this email. I currently use some inexpensive camera's in northern MN. Have a few I leave out year round and it's fun to see what all is up there (deer, fox, wolves, lynx), but it wouldn't change my hunting if they were banned in my state. After getting a few cameras stolen in southern MN, I've gone more to boots on the ground scouting over setting cameras.

 

[Netherman]

Big money in trail cameras... Bet it won't be the last big name in hunting taking that position.

Personally, I think cell cameras need to be given a hard look. Maybe only updates once a day after shooting light and well before first light or just outright banned. Getting an instant notification seems just as bad as having a buddy on the phone walking you in on a deer. Maybe worse because I can buy more cell cams than buddies.