Tragic bear attack

[Ralphie]

With all due respect to Mr. Uptain, I think the big mistake was separating himself from his gun. The full report states he carried it in a shoulder holster and had removed it and his shirt. When the bears came in there was no time for him to get it and the pathetic hunter didn’t have a clue.
I really wished he’d had it on him, chambered. And was able to respond immediately with it.
Let this horrible event be a lesson for all of us in these situations. Don’t let your guard down.

 

[Solby]

Are there any stats out there showing how many bears are shot in self defense or sprayed with pepper spray? Seems like there have been a lot of attacks in the lower 48 the last two years. Hunters had better be ready at all times.

 

[Trr15]

I carry without a round chambered sometimes. If I’m in bear country, and especially if I’ve got meat on the ground, there is a 100% chance that I am carrying with a round in the chamber.

 

[Trr15]

It’s interesting that most guys take the holier than thou approach to gun safety conversations when discussing ND scenarios, yet are harsh critics of people who are attempting to be as cautious as possible and carry without a round in the chamber. Also, the argument that if you don’t have a round in the chamber you might as well leave the gun at home is nonsense.

 

[Dos Perros]

 

[Broomd]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you aren't comfortable carrying with one in the chamber you may as well not carry at all. A defensive side-arms sole purpose is to defend your life in the event it is threatened. You should not be doing administrative work when your life is threatened.

Haven't read through all of this but this is why I carry a wheel gun in bear country.
I keep the hammer on an empty but in an instant can trigger onto a chambered round, whereas pulling a slide could be a bridge too far.
Sad deal.

 

[TurboSportTSi]

Yeah, of course! There is also a probability between 0 and 1 that you could take an entirely disassembled weapon, put it together, insert a magazine, rack the chamber, get on target, pull the trigger...does that mean that makes any sense at all? No, it does not. Keep you weapon ready. If you are afraid of an accidental discharge it is because you are ill-equipped to handle said firearm. It means you don't practice with that gun to the point you are comfortable with it. It means you have a holster that you don't have confidence in.

Don't carry if you are afraid of guns. Call it rhetoric if you want, it just sounds like common sense to me.

Amen, brother.

 

[Beendare]

Hunter in Texas just had a ND and killed his 11 year old daughter. It happens. Saying that proper training reduces the probability of a ND to zero is asinine. Nothing has a probability of zero.

This study found 300 unique cases in the news in 2 years. And that's only ND's that are reported on in the news. Probably 10x as many that weren't reported on.

300 Negligent Discharges Study: The Shocking Results » Concealed Carry Inc

We studied 300 news stories about negligent discharges. The stats and numbers from these stats break down, where, to whom, and why these shootings happen.

www.concealedcarry.com

Bullshit.
Total Hogwash^ to say training doesn't reduce the probability of an accident.

You obviously didn't read your own link. 1/2 of accidents are in their own home...many while cleaning their gun. 1/3rd are when kids got ahold of their parents gun.

Of course training matters....whats the first thing they do in any training program? Answer, teach you to treat every gun as if its loaded and not to point it at anyone.....

>

 

[aclawrence]

Personally I think not carrying g a round in the chamber is more dangerous. It puts you in the mindset that your gun isn’t loaded and then maybe you get a little careless and forget that is loaded or is not idk I can’t remember. Personally I carry all my handguns loaded and think it is stupid to do otherwise. You don’t have time to go to gun, chamber a round , then get in a nice stance and squeeze off a shot. Heck watch some police videos on YouTube. Threats come at a blink of an eye sometimes. Be as prepared as you can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pkelly000123]

Wow

 

[TreeWalking]

With all due respect to Mr. Uptain, I think the big mistake was separating himself from his gun. The full report states he carried it in a shoulder holster and had removed it and his shirt. When the bears came in there was no time for him to get it and the pathetic hunter didn’t have a clue.
I really wished he’d had it on him, chambered. And was able to respond immediately with it.
Let this horrible event be a lesson for all of us in these situations. Don’t let your guard down.

The hunter was on an archery hunt. Perhaps not proficient in the handgun the guide had set aside once the arrowed bull elk was located. We all make choices. I can't see setting aside a handgun when next to an elk carcass in grizzly country. Wear on your waist or stuff in your pants or set on the elk quarter you are working on. The guide did set his handgun aside. Reportedly. Hunter and guide had bear spray and one can was emptied. Reportedly. This was an unfortunate situation but I would not call it an accident if the handgun was willingly set aside. That was a calculated action and the guide knew the risks when near an elk carcass in grizzly country. None of us make only optimal decisions. Stay safe out there. RIP Mr. Uptain.

 

[Vandy321]

Probably didn't chamber a round because there's no manual safety. More worried about a negligent discharge than a bear attack. Chances of the former are probably higher than the latter to be fair.

Glocks have 3 safeties.

Pretty tough to ND a glock without having a finger on the trigger. I'd say impossible to ND a glock in the holster.

 

[Dos Perros]

Glocks have 3 safeties.

Pretty tough to ND a glock without having a finger on the trigger. I'd say impossible to ND a glock in the holster.

I have professional experience in mechanical safety devices and IMO t he glock has a really nice design.

But my professional experience has also taught me that even great designs can fail, rather the quality system supporting them can fail. I've seen parts that didn't meet requirements make it through several levels of inspection assembly and testing only to be caught later, sometimes even after product has gone out the door. You hear about it all the time.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Bullshit.
Total Hogwash^ to say training doesn't reduce the probability of an accident.

You obviously didn't read your own link. 1/2 of accidents are in their own home...many while cleaning their gun. 1/3rd are when kids got ahold of their parents gun.

Of course training matters....whats the first thing they do in any training program? Answer, teach you to treat every gun as if its loaded and not to point it at anyone.....

>

I didn't say that training doesn't reduce the probability of a ND. I said it doesn't reduce the probability to zero, which is what bsnedeker stated. As in, the total absence of a possibility that an accident can occur. Because that is never zero.

Wind Gypsy on the first page said he never hears about ND's, so the article was just to give an idea of how many there are per year. Does the location of an ND change the fact that it was a ND?

 

[Vandy321]

To the ND discussion...sure, parts fail, mechanical safeties fail. But even with a safety that has failed, how do you ND a pistol when it's in the holster?

Can someone provide a documented case of a pistol ND in the holster? Not taking about an ND while drawing or holsterimg, but an ND simply from having a round chambered and the pistol holstered.

I just don't see data to support the fear of ND as a logical reason to not have a round chambered in bear country, or ever.

 

[Dos Perros]

To the ND discussion...sure, parts fail, mechanical safeties fail. But even with a safety that has failed, how do you ND a pistol when it's in the holster?

Can someone provide a documented case of a pistol ND in the holster? Not taking about an ND while drawing or holsterimg, but an ND simply from having a round chambered and the pistol holstered.

I just don't see data to support the fear of ND as a logical reason to not have a round chambered in bear country, or ever.

Detective sues Sig Sauer after she says her holstered P320 handgun nearly killed her

Gunmaker has previously denied liability for similar claims involving the P320.

abcnews.go.com

"Hilton’s $15 million lawsuit said, “there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320,” meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C."

Sig says a foreign object entered the trigger guard area despite it being holstered. Probably can't trust 100% either side, but the point remains and is indisputable: sometimes people get shot.

The best point made in this entire thread against the not carrying hot argument is that the act of unloading/loading is risky in and of itself.

 

[tcpip95]

To the ND discussion...sure, parts fail, mechanical safeties fail. But even with a safety that has failed, how do you ND a pistol when it's in the holster?

Can someone provide a documented case of a pistol ND in the holster? Not taking about an ND while drawing or holsterimg, but an ND simply from having a round chambered and the pistol holstered.

I just don't see data to support the fear of ND as a logical reason to not have a round chambered in bear country, or ever.

Why, it just happened to Alec Baldwin. He didn't pull the trigger. <PUKE>

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Gotta love the same gun you own being the subject of a lawsuit and 54 claims that it will go off by itself...

 

[Vandy321]

Detective sues Sig Sauer after she says her holstered P320 handgun nearly killed her

Gunmaker has previously denied liability for similar claims involving the P320.

abcnews.go.com

"Hilton’s $15 million lawsuit said, “there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320,” meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C."

Sig says a foreign object entered the trigger guard area despite it being holstered. Probably can't trust 100% either side, but the point remains and is indisputable: sometimes people get shot.

The best point made in this entire thread against the not carrying hot argument is that the act of unloading/loading is risky in and of itself.

Ah the old, "The gun just went off" excuse.

Buy it or not, that's just another data point that if you're going to carry a semi-auto, it should probably be a glock.

 

[Dos Perros]

Ah the old, "The gun just went off" excuse.

Buy it or not, that's just another data point that if you're going to carry a semi-auto, it should probably be a glock.

People tend to dismiss data that doesn’t align with their already held beliefs.