Tragic bear attack

[Felix40]

I can’t believe people still carry handguns without one in the chamber. Even born and raised had a video of them practicing the draw, cycle, shoot drill. All I could do was shake my head at the foolishness.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Hunter in Texas just had a ND and killed his 11 year old daughter. It happens. Saying that proper training reduces the probability of a ND to zero is asinine. Nothing has a probability of zero.

This study found 300 unique cases in the news in 2 years. And that's only ND's that are reported on in the news. Probably 10x as many that weren't reported on.

300 Negligent Discharges Study: The Shocking Results » Concealed Carry Inc

We studied 300 news stories about negligent discharges. The stats and numbers from these stats break down, where, to whom, and why these shootings happen.

www.concealedcarry.com

 

[Felix40]

Hunter in Texas just had a ND and killed his 11 year old daughter. It happens. Saying that proper training reduces the probability of a ND to zero is asinine. Nothing has a probability of zero.

This study found 300 unique cases in the news in 2 years. And that's only ND's that are reported on in the news. Probably 10x as many that weren't reported on.

300 Negligent Discharges Study: The Shocking Results » Concealed Carry Inc

We studied 300 news stories about negligent discharges. The stats and numbers from these stats break down, where, to whom, and why these shootings happen.

www.concealedcarry.com

By pointing a loaded rifle at her and pulling the trigger. Yeah I’m pretty sure proper handling of the firearm would have prevented that.

I carry two for work every day. They don’t just go bang in a holster.

 

[RyanT26]

A good way to prevent negligent discharges is to keep your finger off the trigger and to not apply rearward pressure to the trigger.
It is truly that simple. Fortunately shit happens. When it does it usually boils down to unsafe firearms handling or some Billy Bob’s trigger job.

Unloaded firearms are poor quality and expensive clubs.

 

[Dos Perros]

Well, your well-reasoned and articulate response sure has me convinced! I'm never carrying a gun with ammo in it ever again! Thanks Dos!

Np Corky.

 

[Dos Perros]

Here's the reality folks. I'll start with a comparison to something that is much more impactful than one bullet being discharged:

"Designing a 'safe' nuclear weapon seems at first a bit of an oxymoron. Yet, one of the most important factors in maintaining an effective deterrent is assuring that weapons will operate when needed, but never when unintended. This must be true for the normal life of a nuclear weapon, from assembly to retirement. But it must also hold across such varied scenarios as aircraft accidents, natural disasters, and human error during production or maintenance. Over such a wide and unpredictable range of possible abnormal environments, it would be impossible to plan for and design against every scenario, yet nuclear weapons must remain safe across these scenarios nonetheless."

One in a Million Given the Accident: Assuring Nuclear Weapon Safety (Book) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

If you read on, a scholarly dude admits that, despite every effort, the risk is never zero. The same is true with carrying a round in the chamber.

Because I have a brain that is always accepting inputs I can constantly evaluate and re-evaluate risk and adjust my approach accordingly. I don't wear my puffy and rain jacket for every minute of a hunt because it's not an all or nothing thing.

Scenarios that it might make sense to carry hot:
- when you're by yourself
- when you're tracking an animal, gutting/cutting, packing
- when you're in thick stuff and you perceive your reaction time available to cross some threshhold

Scenarios that it might make sense to not carry hot:
- when your partner(s) are also carrying a weapon
- when traversing difficult terrain
- when in a boat or airplane

You all should be evaluating risk all the time and adjusting your approach if you think it makes sense.

 

[Laramie]

Most likely scenario-

The gun had a round in the chamber. Experienced guides working in grizzly country, around a dead elk, are cautious. I don't buy for a second his gun wasn't loaded. He just didn't have time to respond. The hunter in his panic emptied the chamber and also dropped the magazine at some point, then panicked and ran. It was acknowledged that the magazine was found separate from the gun. The article also assumes that the bear spray was deployed after he sustained life threatening injuries. There is absolutely no way for them to know that but they sure wouldn't want it believed the spray didn't work, would they. It's a really sad story but any article casting shade on this man pisses me off.

 

[tcpip95]

This is rhetoric, IMO. Certainly there is some gulf of probability between 0 and 1 that one could draw and rack a round before needing to fire a shot. I’m not sure what the percentage is but I’d wager it’s pretty high, certainly more statistically significant than needing to draw at all.

If you're not comfortable carrying a handgun in Condition One, you should probably not carry one at all. The whole purpose of carrying in C1 is so that you only need one hand to shoot. Having an injured hand/arm/appendage makes it nearly impossible to rack a round with only one hand if you need it.

As far as ND goes, one of the reasons I carry a 1911 is that it is basically impossible to have a ND. A 1911 requires 3 actions to be fired: release thumb safety, squeeze grip safety, pull trigger. With regards to NDs with Glocks, there's a reason for the term "Glock Leg". I personally wouldn't take one as a gift.

 

[BBob]

Ha! That debate (hot or not) cetainly won't be decided here. It's been raging for decades and not solved yet! Now I do carry my hunting rifle and bow empty chamber (unless I'm ready to kill something) but if I'm worried about bears or bad guys my holstered handgun is going to be hot.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Here's the reality folks. I'll start with a comparison to something that is much more impactful than one bullet being discharged:

"Designing a 'safe' nuclear weapon seems at first a bit of an oxymoron. Yet, one of the most important factors in maintaining an effective deterrent is assuring that weapons will operate when needed, but never when unintended. This must be true for the normal life of a nuclear weapon, from assembly to retirement. But it must also hold across such varied scenarios as aircraft accidents, natural disasters, and human error during production or maintenance. Over such a wide and unpredictable range of possible abnormal environments, it would be impossible to plan for and design against every scenario, yet nuclear weapons must remain safe across these scenarios nonetheless."

One in a Million Given the Accident: Assuring Nuclear Weapon Safety (Book) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

If you read on, a scholarly dude admits that, despite every effort, the risk is never zero. The same is true with carrying a round in the chamber.

Because I have a brain that is always accepting inputs I can constantly evaluate and re-evaluate risk and adjust my approach accordingly. I don't wear my puffy and rain jacket for every minute of a hunt because it's not an all or nothing thing.

Scenarios that it might make sense to carry hot:
- when you're by yourself
- when you're tracking an animal, gutting/cutting, packing
- when you're in thick stuff and you perceive your reaction time available to cross some threshhold

Scenarios that it might make sense to not carry hot:
- when your partner(s) are also carrying a weapon
- when traversing difficult terrain
- when in a boat or airplane

You all should be evaluating risk all the time and adjusting your approach if you think it makes sense.

^^^ Yup. I'm not really advocating either way. If you prefer to carry with one in the chamber and no safety, go for it. If you prefer a manual safety and nothing in the chamber, whatever you're comfortable with.

I don't even rack one in my rifle unless I'm still hunting or getting in position to shoot.

 

[tcpip95]

Ha! That debate (hot or not) cetainly won't be decided here. It's been raging for decades and not solved yet! Now I do carry my hunting rifle and bow empty chamber (unless I'm ready to kill something) but if I'm worried about bears or bad guys my holstered handgun is going to be hot.

It was decided however in Mr.Uptain's case.

 

[MallardSX2]

What good is an unloaded gun?

I carry a round in the chamber at all times when I am away from my truck. My CC pistols are all ready to fire with one in the chamber. Hammer cocked and safety on.

True story, but my co-worker and I got charged by a cow moose in Alaska one year. When I looked over at him him he was digging in his pack for his gun.

Later I told him that if that moose wanted him that he would have been dead...When I heard the brush breaking my .44 was drawn and hammer cocked....She was 1 foot away from dying.

He carried his pistol on his hip the rest of the summer.....

 

[Dos Perros]

If you're not comfortable carrying a handgun in Condition One, you should probably not carry one at all.

If you’re not comfortable wearing your puffy at all times, you probably shouldn’t carry one at all.

 

[Fatcamp]

You have a much better chance of an ND or AD dicking around with a pistol putting a round in the chamber when you decide there may be a threat. A quality kydex holster and a pistol made to be carried are very safe. Glock is the #1 handgun for LE worldwide and I promise you they are not carrying on an empty chamber.

 

[Felix40]

If you’re not comfortable wearing your puffy at all times, you probably shouldn’t carry one at all.

When a cold breeze mauls me to death in a few seconds I will agree with you.

 

[Whisky]

You have a much better chance of an ND or AD dicking around with a pistol putting a round in the chamber when you decide there may be a threat. A quality kydex holster and a pistol made to be carried are very safe. Glock is the #1 handgun for LE worldwide and I promise you they are not carrying on an empty chamber.

They (LE) are also not trying to conceal them IWB at 3:30-5 oclock.

I've only been CC'n for 2.5 months or so. It's a Sig P365xl with no safety. I have not yet got comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber. From what I'm reading, I maybe need to look for another weapon. A DA/SA hammer fired would be Ok with me. But then I suppose you get back to the same argument, having to mess with a hammer and safety in the heat of the moment.

I have carried 1911s in bear country with a chambered round. But, not in a concealed manner. And I have a safety.

 

[Laramie]

40 cal double action shield, no safety, round in the chamber at all times. If you need your side arm, chances are you need it very quickly. However, I have zero issue with those who decide to carry without 1 in the chamber. That is 100% choice that they need to feel comfortable about.

 

[Fatcamp]

They (LE) are also not trying to conceal them IWB at 3:30-5 oclock.

I've only been CC'n for 2.5 months or so. It's a Sig P365xl with no safety. I have not yet got comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber. From what I'm reading, I maybe need to look for another weapon. A DA/SA hammer fired would be Ok with me. But then I suppose you get back to the same argument, having to mess with a hammer and safety in the heat of the moment.

I have carried 1911s in bear country with a chambered round. But, not in a concealed manner. And I have a safety.

My CCW Shooting AAR--Now with More Graphic Pics on pg 29 & 30 - AR15.COM

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.

www.ar15.com

If you are going to carry a pistol this thread is a great place to educate yourself.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

I have a P320 M18 (manual safety version) and it fits my ivory holster great, except the holster is for a P320 so the slide guard will jossel the safety from safe to fire...need to take a dremel to it before I carry hot

 

[tcpip95]

If you’re not comfortable wearing your puffy at all times, you probably shouldn’t carry one at all.

Brilliant, Gump!