TMK vs. Eld-M vs. Berger Elite Hunter terminal ballistics

[Kimber7man]

Or look at the 105 hybrids

 

[wind gypsy]

Or look at the 105 hybrids

Why would they, with a heavier jacket, perform better than the 108 EH? Bigger void in the nose?

 

[khuber84]

I had excellent results this year with 108eh at 3050mv from a 6cm. 5/5 one shot kills from. 400-710y this season on 3 mule deer 2 Antelope. Only had one not exit, as it entered the chest as deer was facing traveled full length of abdominal cavity and came to rest under offside hide just in front of rear quarters. Nothing went further than 30y death sprint. Had similar results last year running 75eldm from an 18" 22cm at 3150fps. I'll be shooting 109eldm and 112mb next season to test them on medium sized game. The woman took to animals with her prc shooting 140hyb at 3080fps and vital damage was extreme, however lost shoulder meat due to placement being immediately in the shoulder crease and bloodshot traveling quite a bit. The animals were dead right there and didn't move however.

 

[bradb]

Of the buck, not the lungs

 

[Lemhi]

Sounds like you’ve already given up on the Berger’s with a small sample size but once you have mentally wrote something off as a failure it’s very hard (almost impossible) to overcome.

I’d look at the ELD-M 108s or 103 ELD-X if I were in your shoes.

I haven’t written them off. I plan to continue using them because I have a bunch and they shoot very consistent in that rifle. I mentioned specifically my sample size being small to be as concise as possible for anyone reading from my experience with that particular bullet.

I have shot nearly every 6mm bullet in the 105+ weight class, the 105 vld hunters always performed flawlessly for me so I simply expected the 108eh to do the same.

My personal experience with them is just that, small sample size and 50% performed as expected. If that helps somebody neat and if it doesn’t that is just fine too.

 

[sndmn11]

Of the buck, not the lungsView attachment 639954

Did he meet the knife?

 

[bradb]

Did he meet the knife?

Meet the knife?
Wouldn't shoot him if ib wasn't going to rest it. Ate some loin last night, it was great

 

[doepatrol]

I think that is the biggest thing people forget when complaining about no blood trails. You need something forcing stuff out of the body to do that.

Gravity and a large exit= blood trail. Don't need a heart or lungs for it to fall out of the animal. Once the ribs are popped it allows for a pressure gradient to occur, kinda like a gas can with a breather that allows the spout to flow smoother. Sucking chest wounds and/or any hole in the ribs will allow something to flow

 

[Castle Rock]

Did you check the tips to see if they were clogged?

This would not make any difference
The way Bergers expand is the nose section collapses inward, not opening outwards the way a traditional hollow point with a large opening does

 

[dirtytough]

This would not make any difference
The way Bergers expand is the nose section collapses inward, not opening outwards the way a traditional hollow point with a large opening does

Can it collapse inward if the nose is clogged?

 

[TxLite]

This would not make any difference
The way Bergers expand is the nose section collapses inward, not opening outwards the way a traditional hollow point with a large opening does

I haven’t killed enough animals with bergers to dispute this, but everything I’ve read says you get inconsistent results when you aren’t checking the tips

 

[180ls1]

I could yes but I probably won’t. I’m a 6mm nerd I shoot 6mm rem, 243, 6creed, 6-GT, 6PRC. In my limited experience the Bergers as shipped just don’t perform like I expected when’ other bullets have. Again this is strictly 6mm related as the Bergers in 7mm and 30 cal have been flawless for me.

I'm just musing but if jacket thickness remains constant than increase/decrease in frontal area should effect expansion. I am not surprised the larger cals open up better/reliably.

 

[eoperator]

This would not make any difference
The way Bergers expand is the nose section collapses inward, not opening outwards the way a traditional hollow point with a large opening does

Can it collapse inward if the nose is clogged?

I haven’t killed enough animals with bergers to dispute this, but everything I’ve read says you get inconsistent results when you aren’t checking the tips

I have caught several berger tips like this in gel. Looks to me like they yaw sideways and the front ~1/3 tears off. I'm geussing the bergers with a larger air gap in the tip would upset easier.

 

[Castle Rock]

Can it collapse inward if the nose is clogged?

Absolutely

 

[Houseminer]

I shot a few goats and deer with the 160tmk in my 7mmcreed, longest shots were 2 goats at 725meters.
One was bang, flop other walked about 5 meters then dropped.

I've also shot plenty of goat and fallow with the 162gr Amax/ eld-m in my 7mm08.
Longest shot was a goat at 602meters and a red stag at 430ish meters.

 

[dirtytough]

Absolutely

Gotcha. I had some weird issues with Bergers recently. I’m going to clean the tips and see if it makes a difference.

 

[doepatrol]

I haven’t killed enough animals with bergers to dispute this, but everything I’ve read says you get inconsistent results when you aren’t checking the tips

I think this is more of the case with those examples like the 195s that are pointed. With a significant amount of copper in the tips they do tend to penetrate more than those with more open tips. I personally haven't had issues with bergers not functioning but have with SMKs.

 

[Kimber7man]

Why would they, with a heavier jacket, perform better than the 108 EH? Bigger void in the nose?

I don’t have the scientific answer for you. I have just seen multiple reports of the 105 hybrid being great for hunting. That’s what I have for my 6 creed but I always seem to grab another rifle when I go out to Wyoming…

 

[bmart2622]

Agreed that the signal must come from the brain and the brain needs oxygen, but there is some surplus that allows for some activity to send said signal. In my case the pump experienced catastrophic failure so signals were being sent to never neverland. My situation didn't experience a drastic drop in blood pressure, but rather an absolute, possibly negative, drop in pressure. We use pumps all the time in my line of work, when the pump shuts off it it not uncommon to experience backflow, but we never see continued flow. Unless gravity comes into play.

Not n

Maybe, but what makes the heart pump?
If you have a drastic drop in blood pressure to where inadequate blood can reach the brain, maybe the heart doesn't hear from the brain to pump?

By and large true, but the cardiac muscle itself does have the ability to induce contractions, they will be slow and will not sustain life for an extended period of time buuuut, technically a heart can beat without an impulse from the brain

 

[Clark33]

108eldm, shot distance 150yds, mule deer buck. Buck took 3 wobbly steps and tipped over.

Entrance


Copper jacket recovered on offside hide