Tipping

[FAAFO]

Haven't read any posts in this thread but saw it was tipping in the sheep forum.

Stay with cow tipping. Big horn sheep tipping sounds dangerous potentially. Leave it alone guy.

3/10. I would have went the route of giving someone just the tip joke.

 

[SW hunter]

One thing that sinks a tip fast?
The guide s*** talking past clients. Making fun of guys missing shots or bringing stupid gear or expensive gun or not tipping enough or being in lousy shape or being from X state or being wealthy or dumb or inexperienced.

What are you gonna being saying about me in 2 weeks? Youre gonna be s*** talking me so why should I go out of my way to be generous to a guy like that? I’ll make sure to give him enough money to cover his fuel.

I think it should also work in the opposite direction. Why should a guide go above and beyond for a client that just s*** talks the last 3 guides he used? He knows, regardless of what he does, he is going to be the next name you drag through the mud.

Sorry I got so far off the trail here.

 

[the hack]

One thing that sinks a tip fast?
The guide s*** talking past clients. Making fun of guys missing shots or bringing stupid gear or expensive gun or not tipping enough or being in lousy shape or being from X state or being wealthy or dumb or inexperienced.

What are you gonna being saying about me in 2 weeks? Youre gonna be s*** talking me so why should I go out of my way to be generous to a guy like that? I’ll make sure to give him enough money to cover his fuel.

I think it should also work in the opposite direction. Why should a guide go above and beyond for a client that just s*** talks the last 3 guides he used? He knows, regardless of what he does, he is going to be the next name you drag through the mud.

Sorry I got so far off the trail here.

Experienced this the last year. Was surprised when the outfitter/guide s*** talked the previous client, a guy I told him I knew, and ripped on the other hunter in camp. Not surprisingly, this behavior tracked with poor logistics, prep and scouting. Sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

[alaska_bou]

Hahaha it was a joke, lighten up Francis

Maybe you should focus on posting up the outfitters you claim saying 15% is the norm for tipping

Here is one:

How Much Should I Tip? | Huntin' Fool

The Huntin' Fool is your guide to western big game hunting, tag services, and consulting by providing the finest Hunter Services Program in the world.

www.huntinfool.com

And another from Montana guide:
All hunts are fair chase. We will need to see your Montana hunting or fishing licenses and we will need to fill out liability release forms before you begin hunting. Please bring your necessary personal hunting equipment and be prepared for any kind of weather. We require you carry bear spray in the field. Gratuities are not included in the price of your hunt. Guide tips average 10% to 20% of the hunt price. The Camp cook keeps us all well fed and the Lodge in order. Please inform the cook of any dietary issues. Tips for the cook and camp tender average $100+. Enjoy your hunt and thank you for your business!

And another one from Trail's West Outfitters:
Tips or Gratuities are not included in the price of the pack trip or hunt. All of our guides, cooks and wranglers work hard to assist our hunters and clients where ever possible and appreciate all gratuities. Traditional tipping today is based on 10%-20% of trip costs. Each hunter/client should tip based on his/her satisfaction of their wilderness/hunt experience.
And another:

How Much to Tip a Hunting Guide » Outdoors International

Because hunting guides are part of the service industry, it is customary, but not always expected, that a guide receives a gratuity from the client.

outdoors-international.com

And another one:

Tipping your Fishing Guide ~ Living Water Guides

Tipping your Fishing Guide. Tipping your guide is a way to show your appreciation for their hard work and dedication.

livingwaterguide.com

Should I really keep going?

 

[FAAFO]

Here is one:

How Much Should I Tip? | Huntin' Fool

The Huntin' Fool is your guide to western big game hunting, tag services, and consulting by providing the finest Hunter Services Program in the world.

www.huntinfool.com

And another from Montana guide:
All hunts are fair chase. We will need to see your Montana hunting or fishing licenses and we will need to fill out liability release forms before you begin hunting. Please bring your necessary personal hunting equipment and be prepared for any kind of weather. We require you carry bear spray in the field. Gratuities are not included in the price of your hunt. Guide tips average 10% to 20% of the hunt price. The Camp cook keeps us all well fed and the Lodge in order. Please inform the cook of any dietary issues. Tips for the cook and camp tender average $100+. Enjoy your hunt and thank you for your business!

And another one from Trail's West Outfitters:
Tips or Gratuities are not included in the price of the pack trip or hunt. All of our guides, cooks and wranglers work hard to assist our hunters and clients where ever possible and appreciate all gratuities. Traditional tipping today is based on 10%-20% of trip costs. Each hunter/client should tip based on his/her satisfaction of their wilderness/hunt experience.
And another:

How Much to Tip a Hunting Guide » Outdoors International

Because hunting guides are part of the service industry, it is customary, but not always expected, that a guide receives a gratuity from the client.

outdoors-international.com

And another one:

Tipping your Fishing Guide ~ Living Water Guides

Tipping your Fishing Guide. Tipping your guide is a way to show your appreciation for their hard work and dedication.

livingwaterguide.com

Should I really keep going?

Ummm you need to read them again. They all say 10%+. Show me ones starting at 15% like you claimed. You couldn’t even come up with ONE example of it being 15%+. You’re “in the industry”? Booking a semi guided hunt with renfros doesn’t put you in the industry.

You’re reaching far. And no results. How much time you investing in this? Are you expecting a tip? I’ll give you the tip….

 

[alaska_bou]

Ummm you need to read them again. They all say 10%+. Show me ones starting at 15% like you claimed. You couldn’t even come up with ONE example of it being 15%+. You’re “in the industry”? Booking a semi guided hunt with renfros doesn’t put you in the industry.

You’re reaching far. And no results. How much time you investing in this? Are you expecting a tip? I’ll give you the tip….

When every one of the above examples suggests 10% to 20%, it doesn't take a genius to average those numbers.

You are totally right, I must not be in the industry, and I must not have been on over 50 guided hunts on every continent over the last 20 years, so clearly you know better than I do

 

[WVELK]

Ummm you need to read them again. They all say 10%+. Show me ones starting at 15% like you claimed. You couldn’t even come up with ONE example of it being 15%+. You’re “in the industry”? Booking a semi guided hunt with renfros doesn’t put you in the industry.

You’re reaching far. And no results. How much time you investing in this? Are you expecting a tip? I’ll give you the tip….

I was not going to post, but I think FAAFO should hear this. A little background, I have went on a $shit ton of guided hunts since 1996. I hate the fact, that people like FAAFO have lost complete sight of the fact that tipping should be based on the quality of service provided, and not a simple mathmatical calculation. I am historically a very good tipper in all industries where tipping is customary, AND where the service provided exceeds the client’s (that would be me) expecations. I have tipped more than the cost of the hunt on more than one occassion. I have tipped $500 on a $20,000 elk hunt. You need to talk to your outfitter and your guide and acess everyone’s expectations going into the hunt. I have had outfitters tell me a guide probably did not deserve more than $500, and I have had outfitters tell me before the hunt that their guides always get 15 - 20 percent (I call bull$hit on that one). I have saved a guides life on a hunt because he was the most incompetent outdoorsman I have ever been around - didn’t tip him - thought I had done enough already. I have beeen on brown bear hunts where the guides base pay was $1,000 a day for a 16 day hunt. That is a great base pay, but he also got a better tip because he was one of the best guides I have ever seen (and, I literally have been around hundreds of guides). My point is communicate before the hunt with the outfitter and guide to see what each expects, tell them what you expect from the hunt, ask what they will provide, then evaluate the quality of the servcie provided. And, yes I have had guides ask me for equipment and not cash, but generally cash is king that is true.

However, in my experience far too many young guides have gone the way of our country the last 30 years. They want to do less, expect more and appear to be “entitled” in general. I have a lot of very close friends that are outfitters. The crap they have to put up with regards to guides these days is off the chart. Asking a guide to remain drug fee while taking a client on a hunt should be a BARE MINIMUM not an “unreasonable request”. In my opinion, if you are guiding to make money you need to stop - today. If you are a great guide you deserve a great tip, no doubt. However, if you go into guiding not for the love of the outdoors and the opportunity to help a hunter grasp his or her dreams, but for the money you need to stop guiding. Get your a$$ back into school where you can get an education and a job that is all about making money. Guiding is not all about making money. And, in case you are wondering, I guided many hunts in my 20s and like another guide noted above, I was out there for the experience and was glad to get whatever I received. I once guided a Saudi prince on a hunt, and did not recieve a dime as a tip because he was against tipping. I was fine with that, and we had a great time. I will end by saying the hunter that has the money and claims he forgot cash and stiffs a good guide is worse than the young guide who just shows up does the bare minimum and says he deserves 10 percent for showing up.

 

[FAAFO]

I was not going to post, but I think FAAFO should hear this. A little background, I have went on a $shit ton of guided hunts since 1996. I hate the fact, that people like FAAFO have lost complete sight of the fact that tipping should be based on the quality of service provided, and not a simple mathmatical calculation. I am historically a very good tipper in all industries where tipping is customary, AND where the service provided exceeds the client’s (that would be me) expecations. I have tipped more than the cost of the hunt on more than one occassion. I have tipped $500 on a $20,000 elk hunt. You need to talk to your outfitter and your guide and acess everyone’s expectations going into the hunt. I have had outfitters tell me a guide probably did not deserve more than $500, and I have had outfitters tell me before the hunt that their guides always get 15 - 20 percent (I call bull$hit on that one). I have saved a guides life on a hunt because he was the most incompetent outdoorsman I have ever been around - didn’t tip him - thought I had done enough already. I have beeen on brown bear hunts where the guides base pay was $1,000 a day for a 16 day hunt. That is a great base pay, but he also got a better tip because he was one of the best guides I have ever seen (and, I literally have been around hundreds of guides). My point is communicate before the hunt with the outfitter and guide to see what each expects, tell them what you expect from the hunt, ask what they will provide, then evaluate the quality of the servcie provided. And, yes I have had guides ask me for equipment and not cash, but generally cash is king that is true.

However, in my experience far too many young guides have gone the way of our country the last 30 years. They want to do less, expect more and appear to be “entitled” in general. I have a lot of very close friends that are outfitters. The crap they have to put up with regards to guides these days is off the chart. Asking a guide to remain drug fee while taking a client on a hunt should be a BARE MINIMUM not an “unreasonable request”. In my opinion, if you are guiding to make money you need to stop - today. If you are a great guide you deserve a great tip, no doubt. However, if you go into guiding not for the love of the outdoors and the opportunity to help a hunter grasp his or her dreams, but for the money you need to stop guiding. Get your a$$ back into school where you can get an education and a job that is all about making money. Guiding is not all about making money. And, in case you are wondering, I guided many hunts in my 20s and like another guide noted above, I was out there for the experience and was glad to get whatever I received. I once guided a Saudi prince on a hunt, and did not recieve a dime as a tip because he was against tipping. I was fine with that, and we had a great time. I will end by saying the hunter that has the money and claims he forgot cash and stiffs a good guide is worse than the young guide who just shows up does the bare minimum and says he deserves 10 percent for showing up.

Ummm I think you’re confused on my position on tipping. Here’s something I posted earlier:

“Your guide may not be worth the minimum of 10%. But he may be worth a lot more. Plan accordingly”

Key in on the may not part. The part I was arguing was with someone claiming outfitters are saying 15% is the minimum for tipping. Which I do not agree with.

I didn’t read the entirety of your post but I’ll get to it. May come back and edit my post.

Have a great day!

 

[voltage]

I once had a guide tell a story about a past client who the guide said he went above and beyond for, and the client "only tipped 10%". I often think about what he says about me for only tipping 10%.

 

[WVELK]

I’ve never seen an outfitter claim 15% tipping is normal. Almost every website says 10%.

It’s kinda like building code, the code is the standard we are all held to, but it is the minimum. That’s kinda what the 10% is in the guiding world.

I always hate the part of the hunt where the client gives the tip. It’s just awkward. So many of the hunts end up feeling like you just finished a hunt with a friend. And now he gives you money? Weird. But I know one thing; I’ve always got over 10% and it doesn’t matter if it’s an expensive hunt or not.

Your guide may not be worth the minimum of 10%. But he may be worth a lot more. Plan accordingly.

This is the post that caught my attention. With all due respect, 10 percent is not the minimum. It may be in your world, and you may be one of the best guides on the planet. And, if I hunted with you I might tip you 50%. But, for the OP original post, 10 percent is not a minium. If a guide is worthless, the minimum might be 0%.

 

[FAAFO]

This is the post that caught my attention. With all due respect, 10 percent is not the minimum. It may be in your world, and you may be one of the best guides on the planet. And, if I hunted with you I might tip you 50%. But, for the OP original post, 10 percent is not a minium. If a guide is worthless, the minimum might be 0%.

I disagree. 10% seems be the number consistent and I would treat that as a Minimum if you’re happy with your client. It’s like going to a restaurant, my wife tells me 15% is standard. Shitty service they are going to barely get anything. Exceptional way more than 15%.

 

[WVELK]

I disagree. 10% seems be the number consistent and I would treat that as a Minimum if you’re happy with your client. It’s like going to a restaurant, my wife tells me 15% is standard. Shitty service they are going to barely get anything. Exceptional way more than 15%.

May I ask, what animals do your guide, what state(s) and what is your age? You may be making my point with your responses. Lets say you are an elk guide in New Mexico hunting out of a lodge. Lets say you live in Texas. You drive to the lodge the day before the client arrives (two day before season opener). The outfitter assigns you a new hunter, lets say the OP, and tells you the area he wants you to go into opening morning. You have hunted the area and are familar with the area, but have done zero pre-season scouting (this happens a lot, not necessary you, but guides in general with elk). The client arrives the next day. You meet your client, have a good evening and hunt the next day. On the first day of the season your client kills his first bull with a muzzleloader (280 inches) two hours into the hunt. Lets up the game and say, you were in unit 16A and the client has paid $21,000 for the landowner tag and $11,000 for the hunt.

By 4 PM on the first day, you and the client are back at the lodge. If I understand you correctly, that client owes you a “Minimum” of $3,200. Is that what your are saying?

 

[RdRdrFan]

May I ask, what animals do your guide, what state(s) and what is your age? You may be making my point with your responses. Lets say you are an elk guide in New Mexico hunting out of a lodge. Lets say you live in Texas. You drive to the lodge the day before the client arrives (two day before season opener). The outfitter assigns you a new hunter, lets say the OP, and tells you the area he wants you to go into opening morning. You have hunted the area and are familar with the area, but have done zero pre-season scouting (this happens a lot, not necessary you, but guides in general with elk). The client arrives the next day. You meet your client, have a good evening and hunt the next day. On the first day of the season your client kills his first bull with a muzzleloader (280 inches) two hours into the hunt. Lets up the game and say, you were in unit 16A and the client has paid $21,000 for the landowner tag and $11,000 for the hunt.

By 4 PM on the first day, you and the client are back at the lodge. If I understand you correctly, that client owes you a “Minimum” of $3,200. Is that what your are saying?

Ok so I get where you are going with this and I absolutely disagree with FAAFO's opinion that 10% is a minimum. However, I disagree with your point in this specific scenario. If someone buys a tag in 16A and that client makes the decision to pull the trigger on the morning of day 1.....why should the guide be punished? Size of the animal doesn't matter at that point. The client decided to pull the trigger and end the hunt early. Presumably the guide was prepared and had planned on being there working all week to get a bull for the client. Luck (or skill of the guide) put them in position to take an animal that the client is happy with. Why punish the guide? To go back to an earlier point you made about guides not scouting and just showing up shortly before the hunt....why would they if you are going to shortchange them if they have a bull located before the season starts??

 

[FAAFO]

May I ask, what animals do your guide, what state(s) and what is your age? You may be making my point with your responses. Lets say you are an elk guide in New Mexico hunting out of a lodge. Lets say you live in Texas. You drive to the lodge the day before the client arrives (two day before season opener). The outfitter assigns you a new hunter, lets say the OP, and tells you the area he wants you to go into opening morning. You have hunted the area and are familar with the area, but have done zero pre-season scouting (this happens a lot, not necessary you, but guides in general with elk). The client arrives the next day. You meet your client, have a good evening and hunt the next day. On the first day of the season your client kills his first bull with a muzzleloader (280 inches) two hours into the hunt. Lets up the game and say, you were in unit 16A and the client has paid $21,000 for the landowner tag and $11,000 for the hunt.

By 4 PM on the first day, you and the client are back at the lodge. If I understand you correctly, that client owes you a “Minimum” of $3,200. Is that what your are saying?

Difficult hunts seem to always lead to higher tips. Does that answer your question? Or would you like me to give you an example to counter your example?

Like pointed out above the tag price shouldn’t be factored in to the price of your guided hunt. Sounds like the 10% industry standard would put the tip around 1100 not 3200.

Nice try diddy.

 

[FAAFO]

Ok so I get where you are going with this and I absolutely disagree with FAAFO's opinion that 10% is a minimum. However, I disagree with your point in this specific scenario. If someone buys a tag in 16A and that client makes the decision to pull the trigger on the morning of day 1.....why should the guide be punished? Size of the animal doesn't matter at that point. The client decided to pull the trigger and end the hunt early. Presumably the guide was prepared and had planned on being there working all week to get a bull for the client. Luck (or skill of the guide) put them in position to take an animal that the client is happy with. Why punish the guide? To go back to an earlier point you made about guides not scouting and just showing up shortly before the hunt....why would they if you are going to shortchange them if they have a bull located before the season starts??

10% is industry standard. Your results may vary and honestly I don’t care. Hunts I’ve been on have averaged well over 10%. So in my world the standard is higher. But like I said above I hate the tipping process with clients. Always the most awkward part, even wiping their ass isn’t as bad.

 

[Dragonfish]

Dall sheep last year I left 15% with the guide last year, and let him take care of the packer at his discretion- which is a pattern i've kind of fallen in to on these hunts. I've given gear to guides, including last year, but not in place of a tip, and not big ticket items. Last year was a solar panel to charge batteries, because theirs sucked and they had another few weeks left in the backcountry. and i won't need one for a while! Also have left an air mattress when the packers went bad on him. but never in place of cash.

 

[cuerro viejo]

May I ask, what animals do your guide, what state(s) and what is your age? You may be making my point with your responses. Lets say you are an elk guide in New Mexico hunting out of a lodge. Lets say you live in Texas. You drive to the lodge the day before the client arrives (two day before season opener). The outfitter assigns you a new hunter, lets say the OP, and tells you the area he wants you to go into opening morning. You have hunted the area and are familar with the area, but have done zero pre-season scouting (this happens a lot, not necessary you, but guides in general with elk). The client arrives the next day. You meet your client, have a good evening and hunt the next day. On the first day of the season your client kills his first bull with a muzzleloader (280 inches) two hours into the hunt. Lets up the game and say, you were in unit 16A and the client has paid $21,000 for the landowner tag and $11,000 for the hunt.

By 4 PM on the first day, you and the client are back at the lodge. If I understand you correctly, that client owes you a “Minimum” of $3,200. Is that what your are saying?

What you are describing is a 11K hunt, the unit tag is a separate transaction to a random landowner, ( in which outfitter already added his mark up for facilitation also), so 1100 min tip to camp. If you want to come back better tip more

It would be a 32k hunt if it was a LO ranch only tag, as they are most likely probably not taking or hunting the ranch on draw tags. They would hunt whole unit on draw tag. Basically its 32k for an exclusive private land hunt, no different then Outfitter allocation tag for his allotment. Like stone sheep. Price is built in for the quality and the hunt itself. If this was a 32k hunt on a private ranch or allotment, yes tip 3200 min.

The speed of which you kill, just shows that the guide had done his work prior to your arrival. The quality of the animal is on you. Exception would be if he called it a 350 and it was 300, on ranch they are hunting 350's and normally passing 300-330.. I would probably still tip here too

If I was in this situation you described and on a exclusive private land hunt(32k) then I would pay the camp( Guide, packer, Cook) a break out of ATLEAST $3200(10% min), regardless what I choose to shoot. If I wanted to come back, more. To me the tip really starts after 10%.

 

[WVELK]

Ok so I get where you are going with this and I absolutely disagree with FAAFO's opinion that 10% is a minimum. However, I disagree with your point in this specific scenario. If someone buys a tag in 16A and that client makes the decision to pull the trigger on the morning of day 1.....why should the guide be punished? Size of the animal doesn't matter at that point. The client decided to pull the trigger and end the hunt early. Presumably the guide was prepared and had planned on being there working all week to get a bull for the client. Luck (or skill of the guide) put them in position to take an animal that the client is happy with. Why punish the guide? To go back to an earlier point you made about guides not scouting and just showing up shortly before the hunt....why would they if you are going to shortchange them if they have a bull located before the season starts??

All good points, and questions. Let me address in the order they came. The guide is only being “punished” if you assume that 10 percent is a minimum and in my hypothetical the client did not tip 10 percent. I never said what was tipped, if anything. I only asked FAAFO if this guide was entitled to at least 10 percent as a minimum which seems to be his position. I chose this fact pattern because it is the one with which I am most familiar - elk guides. I did not say what if anything the guide said as to shoot or not shoot. If you are in unit 16A in New Mexico, and a guide puts you on a 280 inch bull the first day and does not tackle you and keep you from shooting a 280 inch bull two hours into the hunt, he is lazy or incompetent. No elk guide worth a nickel is going into 16A as I described. Great guides will figuratively give their right arm to work in that unit. Next, you would be shocked at the number of elk guides in NM that do no scouting. Compare that to a wilderness hunt for elk in Wyoming where your guide has problem packed camp back in many miles and been there 7-10 days before the hunt start. Further he has to work hard to find elk. That is not the case in the Gila. My point is the wilderness guide has done a heck of a lot more work for his tip than the guide in my scenario. The guide in my scenerio has done the bare minimum. He brought you water to your table in a restaurant and never retuned to the table.

 

[WVELK]

Difficult hunts seem to always lead to higher tips. Does that answer your question? Or would you like me to give you an example to counter your example?

Like pointed out above the tag price shouldn’t be factored in to the price of your guided hunt. Sounds like the 10% industry standard would put the tip around 1100 not 3200.

Nice try diddy.

My friend I don’t know where you work as a guide or where you are getting these huge tips from, but it sure isn’t New Mexico hunting elk. The price of my hypothetical hunt was $32,000 which would have been the total paid to the outfitter. In that state, outfitters buy and then sell 99 percent of the landowner tags. And, you avoided all of my questions by tipping less than 4 percent. Why don’t you just share your experiences with us? You provided many responses early on and tried to educate the OP as to some hypothetical or magical industry minimum standard of 10 percent. Just give us more details so we can make more educated decisions on our future hunts, please.

 

[WVELK]

What you are describing is a 11K hunt, the unit tag is a separate transaction to a random landowner, ( in which outfitter already added his mark up for facilitation also), so 1100 min tip to camp. If you want to come back better tip more

It would be a 32k hunt if it was a LO ranch only tag, as they are most likely probably not taking or hunting the ranch on draw tags. They would hunt whole unit on draw tag. Basically its 32k for an exclusive private land hunt, no different then Outfitter allocation tag for his allotment. Like stone sheep. Price is built in for the quality and the hunt itself. If this was a 32k hunt on a private ranch or allotment, yes tip 3200 min.

The speed of which you kill, just shows that the guide had done his work prior to your arrival. The quality of the animal is on you. Exception would be if he called it a 350 and it was 300, on ranch they are hunting 350's and normally passing 300-330.. I would probably still tip here too

If I was in this situation you described and on a exclusive private land hunt(32k) then I would pay the camp( Guide, packer, Cook) a break out of ATLEAST $3200(10% min), regardless what I choose to shoot. If I wanted to come back, more. To me the tip really starts after 10%.

With all due respect, you obviously do not hunt elk in NM. As noted above, darn near every landowner tag in NM is sold to the outfitters as soon as they are available to the landowners. Why? Because it is a guaranteed easy sell for the landowners, and it is the only way the outfitter can guarantee that he has hunters. If the outfitter relies on the draw to sell hunts (the overwhelming majority of which are to non-residents) then he goes bankrupt soon. The payment to the outfitter in my hypothetical is $32K, been there done that. Many times.