Thoughts on new 6.8 Western cartridge

[MJB]

I'm looking strictly for the nonlead issue I have to deal with in Cali. That speed should work for copper expansion at longer ranges.

 

[DuckDogDr]

Feel like they missed out on a marketing push by not naming it the 270 o'connor.

I'm scratching my goatee....maybe this is my future sheep caliber

 

[wind gypsy]

Nice photo. Looking at it I would say the throat leade is also difference to consider ? Anyone seen the chamber dimensions on the new ones ?

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/6.8-Western-Public-Introduction-Orig-2020-11-01.pdf

Actually the saami freebore/leade isn't all that long (0.0995"). The 6.5 PRC saami freebore is almost double that.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

I'll probably have one when Tikka chambers a left handed one and Barnes makes some heavier 277 bullets. I can wait until then.

 

[Aaron P.]

I'll probably have one when Tikka chambers a left handed one and Barnes makes some heavier 277 bullets. I can wait until then.

Kind of where I'm at. Although I think we'll be waiting a long time. They haven't even released any rifles in 6.5 prc despite how trendy it it's been since its release.

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[z987k]

I'll probably have one when Tikka chambers a left handed one and Barnes makes some heavier 277 bullets. I can wait until then.

And then tikka will put it out in the same twist as their 270 win(1-10) and you won't be able to shoot the long/heavies.

 

[wyo2track]

And then tikka will put it out in the same twist as their 270 win(1-10) and you won't be able to shoot the long/heavies.

If they follow the SAAMI spec, it'll have to have at least a 1 in 8.

 

[jlaner0408]

Kind of where I'm at. Although I think we'll be waiting a long time. They haven't even released any rifles in 6.5 prc despite how trendy it it's been since its release.

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The Tikka 6.5 PRCs are coming this year according to their 2021 catalog

 

[Aaron P.]

The Tikka 6.5 PRCs are coming this year according to their 2021 catalog

Thats news to me. Good, it sounded like they're going to release last year but covid pushed it back. Save me the hassle of doing a semi-custom build.

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[EmperorMA]

I'll probably have one when Tikka chambers a left handed one and Barnes makes some heavier 277 bullets. I can wait until then.

I'm looking strictly for the nonlead issue I have to deal with in Cali. That speed should work for copper expansion at longer ranges.

Winchester has developed a 162gr copper expanding bullet specifically for this cartridge.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I was super excited to read the review on the 6.8 Western online today. The reason why I never got on the 6.5CR bandwagon was becasue of the lack of heavy-for-caliber bullet options. This cartridge solves that problem without intolerable recoil and near-magnum performance beyond the ranges I would normally shoot. .6 or better BC in the heavier bullets and very significant advancement in my view.

 

[z987k]

I was super excited to read the review on the 6.8 Western online today. The reason why I never got on the 6.5CR bandwagon was becasue of the lack of heavy-for-caliber bullet options. This cartridge solves that problem without intolerable recoil and near-magnum performance beyond the ranges I would normally shoot. .6 or better BC in the heavier bullets and very significant advancement in my view.

6.5cm more or less brought heavy for caliber to the mainstream. It's still one of the few cartridges every manufacturer twists for long bullets at the factory.
If 140s aren't enough for your purpose that's one thing, but prior everyone was shooting 100-120 out of the 264s.
277 suffers far far more from no heavy for caliber options. In fact it's probably close to the worst possible caliber for long/heavies. Now there's a couple options, but nothing like 264, 284 or 308.

 

[20 Extreme]

I have never owned nor shot anything with a .280 AI. However, on paper, the 6.8 Western looks to be extremely similar in performance to a .280 AI throated for long bullets, albeit with a longer action.

The 6.8 Western is probably even more similar to the .280 AI's shorter performance clone, the 7 SAUM.

It is closest to the mythical .270 PRC, though. Not a bad place to be.

The .270 PRC is a great place to be only I called it the 270 PHC ( Precision Hunter Cartridge). Although likely not mythical it does perform as good, or better, than the 270 Win and 270 WSM with modern lightweight bullets with less powder. I designed it to run the Hornady 145 ELDX and Nosler 150 LRAB running a 26" barrel with an 8.5 twist and was delighted when it performed great with the Berger 170 EOL as well, The 165 LRAB is the only one of 8 modern bullets that does not fit properly with bearing surface up in the neck but holds enough RL 26 to likely outperform the 6.8 Western using about 5 grains less powder with that bullet.

My health prevented me from doing load development and posting results so I sold the rifle, and all components to a young fellow who is continuing with my work and reporting to me. His results with the 140 Sierra TGK (Gamechanger) are almost unbelievable with 59.0 gr. RL 26 getting a five shot average of 3281 fps with an ES of 7 and SD of 2.8. The Model 70 MOA trigger lived up to its namesake but hopefully a new Timney wig get the group down to 1/2 MOA.

The attached picture shows 8 loads in the 270 PRC as follows.Left to Right:
1. Barnes 129 LRX COAL – 2.935” @ 0.030” off lands.
- Ladder with RL 26 - 58.5 Error ( Likely around 3315 fps) pressure OK
- 59.0 Error ( Likely around 3325 fps) Hopefully good node.
- 59.5 - 3369
- 60.0 - 3378 Pressure OK
- 60.5 - 3462 Pressure spike Max.

2. Sierra 140 TGK COAL – 2.975” @ 0.030” off lands – Fed 210M

- Reloader 26 – 59.0 gr. = 3281fps ES 7 ; SD 2.9

3. Hornady 130 InterBond – 2.900” @ 0.025” off lands.
- Ladder with H 4831 - 62.0 gr. Full - 3393 fps * Max
- Ladder with RL 26 - 59.5 gr 3327
- 60.0 gr 3327
- 60.5 gr 3387
- 61.0 gr 3375
- 61.5 gr 3441 - Pressure Spike with a little extraction resistance.

4. Hornady 145 ELD-X – 2.955” @ 0.013” off lands - Fed 210M

- Reloader 26 – 59.5gr. = 3183fps

- H 1000 – 60.5gr. = 3074fps – ES 22 – SD 10.9

5. Nosler 150 LRAB – 2.955”@ 0.030” off lands – Fed 210M

- Reloader 26 – 59.0gr. = 3083fps. – ES 21 – SD 8.1

6. Nosler 165 LRAB – 2.955” @ 0.025” off lands.

7. Berger 150 Hunting VLD – 2.880” @ lands.

8. Berger 170 EOL – 2.985” @ 0.077” off lands – Fed 210M

- Reloader 26 – 57.5gr. =2935fps. – ES 25 – SD 9.5

 

[AkRyan]

The .270 PRC is a great place to be only I called it the 270 PHC ( Precision Hunter Cartridge). Although likely not mythical it does perform as good, or better, than the 270 Win and 270 WSM with modern lightweight bullets with less powder. I designed it to run the Hornady 145 ELDX and Nosler 150 LRAB running a 26" barrel with an 8.5 twist and was delighted when it performed great with the Berger 170 EOL as well, The 165 LRAB is the only one of 8 modern bullets that does not fit properly with bearing surface up in the neck but holds enough RL 26 to likely outperform the 6.8 Western using about 5 grains less powder with that bullet.

My health prevented me from doing load development and posting results so I sold the rifle, and all components to a young fellow who is continuing with my work and reporting to me. His results with the 140 Sierra TGK (Gamechanger) are almost unbelievable with 59.0 gr. RL 26 getting a five shot average of 3281 fps with an ES of 7 and SD of 2.8. The Model 70 MOA trigger lived up to its namesake but hopefully a new Timney wig get the group down to 1/2 MOA.

The attached picture shows 8 loads in the 270 PRC as follows.Left to Right:
1. Barnes 129 LRX COAL – 2.935” @ 0.030” off lands.
- Ladder with RL 26 - 58.5 Error ( Likely around 3315 fps) pressure OK
- 59.0 Error ( Likely around 3325 fps) Hopefully good node.
- 59.5 - 3369
- 60.0 - 3378 Pressure OK
- 60.5 - 3462 Pressure spike Max.

2. Sierra 140 TGK COAL – 2.975” @ 0.030” off lands – Fed 210M

- Reloader 26 – 59.0 gr. = 3281fps ES 7 ; SD 2.9

3. Hornady 130 InterBond – 2.900” @ 0.025” off lands.
- Ladder with H 4831 - 62.0 gr. Full - 3393 fps * Max
- Ladder with RL 26 - 59.5 gr 3327
- 60.0 gr 3327
- 60.5 gr 3387
- 61.0 gr 3375
- 61.5 gr 3441 - Pressure Spike with a little extraction resistance.

4. Hornady 145 ELD-X – 2.955” @ 0.013” off lands - Fed 210M

- Reloader 26 – 59.5gr. = 3183fps

- H 1000 – 60.5gr. = 3074fps – ES 22 – SD 10.9

5. Nosler 150 LRAB – 2.955”@ 0.030” off lands – Fed 210M

- Reloader 26 – 59.0gr. = 3083fps. – ES 21 – SD 8.1

6. Nosler 165 LRAB – 2.955” @ 0.025” off lands.

7. Berger 150 Hunting VLD – 2.880” @ lands.

8. Berger 170 EOL – 2.985” @ 0.077” off lands – Fed 210M

- Reloader 26 – 57.5gr. =2935fps. – ES 25 – SD 9.5

Are all these numbers with a 26" tube? I'm a short barrel guy so I'm always looking for calibers that outperform there competition with less powder.

 

[mtnlomo]

A while ago I was kicking around the idea of a tikka 270 WSM build, but to swap barrels with a tighter twist and on a long action for the long heavy bullets. I ended up getting a 300 rsaum (similar to the 300 WSM) with dies and lots of brass. I think this gun will settle in to a nice little niche. While it may not be my next gun, it might be a rifle or two after that... don't tell my wife

 

[20 Extreme]

Are all these numbers with a 26" tube? I'm a short barrel guy so I'm always looking for calibers that outperform there competition with less powder.

Yes they are all from a 26" tube. I believe that the 270 PHC would perform better than the 270 Win with shorter barrels as it seems to get more velocity with a couple of grains less powder with most bullet/powder combinations. I believe that this is largely due to the fact that the modern pointy bullets sit near the lands in the 270 PHC while they do not in the 270 Winchester. Closer Cartridge/Chamber tolerances with New and Full Length sized cases also contribute to higher velocities / grain of powder.

Cartridge	Barrel	Case	IMR7977 Cap	H20 Cap	Bullet	OFF Lands	Primer	Powder	Grains	Vel fps
270 Win	26"	Win FL	66.2 gr.		150 LRAB	0.212"	Fed 210	IMR 7977	60.2 C	2797
"	"	"			"	"	"	"	60.5	2880
"	"	"			"	"	"	"	60.8 C	2914
"	"	Win NS	67.0 gr.		"	"	"	"	61.5C	2899
270 Win	"	Fed FL	64.3 gr		150 LRAB	0.212"	Fed 210	IMR 7977	58.1 Full	2720
"	"	"			"	"	"	"	58.7 C	2747
"	"	Fed NS	64.9gr.		"	"	"	"	59.3C	2768
270 Win	"	Horn FL	67.0 gr.		150 LRAB	0.212"	Fed 210	IMR 7977	60.5 Full	2793
		"			"	"	"	"	61.5 C	2906
270 PHC	26"	Horn FL	65.2	67.9 gr.	150 LRAB	0.030"	Fed 210	IMR 7977	58	2935
									58.5	2952
									59.0 Full	2941
									59.5 C	2919
									60.0 C	2972
						Accuracy Node ????			60.5C	3000?
						"			61.0 C	?

 

[txtransplant]

I'm guessing most of the folks still tuning into a thread this long are already fans of the 6.8 Western cartridge, but I figured I'd share this data for anyone that is interested.

I was trying to select the cartridge for a new rifle and in doing so I created a spreadsheet to compare different loads across most of the important characteristics. I have not included every load under the sun here, but if you're hunting elk, these are the primary loads you'd be looking at.

First, I input data for as many Hornady ELD-X loads as I would consider. My goal was to make the comparisons as apples-to-apples as I could. Many of the cartridges are not loaded by Hornady (looking at you, Nosler). For those, I selected the type of bullet I might hunt with.

Finally, I conditionally formatted several of the columns to color code from best to worst.

Looking at a chart like this, you can really see how well 6.8 Western shines. It's got 300 Win Mag energy in a short action with less drift. More power than .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 280 AI, 270 Win, and 308 Win.

Particularly if you want a short action do-it-all round, this looks like a the best choice as far as ballistics are concerned.

I'm not typically an early adopter, but I do plan to pick up a 6.8 X-Bolt this year.

See attachments. This is all the same data sorted in several different ways. Footnotes at bottom. The 6.8 Western cartridges are in the blue rows.

 

[20 Extreme]

I'm guessing most of the folks still tuning into a thread this long are already fans of the 6.8 Western cartridge, but I figured I'd share this data for anyone that is interested.

I was trying to select the cartridge for a new rifle and in doing so I created a spreadsheet to compare different loads across most of the important characteristics. I have not included every load under the sun here, but if you're hunting elk, these are the primary loads you'd be looking at.

First, I input data for as many Hornady ELD-X loads as I would consider. My goal was to make the comparisons as apples-to-apples as I could. Many of the cartridges are not loaded by Hornady (looking at you, Nosler). For those, I selected the type of bullet I might hunt with.

Finally, I conditionally formatted several of the columns to color code from best to worst.

Looking at a chart like this, you can really see how well 6.8 Western shines. It's got 300 Win Mag energy in a short action with less drift. More power than .30-06, 7mm Rem Mag, 280 AI, 270 Win, and 308 Win.

Particularly if you want a short action do-it-all round, this looks like a the best choice as far as ballistics are concerned.

I'm not typically an early adopter, but I do plan to pick up a 6.8 X-Bolt this year.

See attachments. This is all the same data sorted in several different ways. Footnotes at bottom. The 6.8 Western cartridges are in the blue rows.

Great data and very nicely presented. The 6.8 Western does outperform the cartridges you mentioned although the 165 LRAB load does closer to 2900 fps in 24" barreled factory rifles. However still more than enough performance for moose and elk to further than most can see to shoot. I do hope that Winchester comes up with some better brass than the 270 WSM. I am also not impressed with the case design in general as I believe it could have had much more than 0.0995" Freebore so the bullets 150 LRAB are not down in the case. My 270 PHC runs bullets' out in he neck and likely gets more velocity with about 5 or 6 grains less powder. While the 165 LRAB does sit with some bearing surface below the neck the 270 PHC still has enough capacity to likely get the same velocity as the 6/8 Western.

150 LRAB 270 WSM/270 PRC with H 1000:

150 LRAB 270 PHC:

150 LRAB 6.8 Western:

 

[Tumbleweed]

FWIW.
I just bought the Browning XBolt Western Hunter 6.8 with the 24" barrel. I managed to find a few Berger 170EOL bullets (sample packs) to do a tid bit of testing. After finding the lands, I was pleased to find that at .030" jump, the combo will fit in Browning's rotary magazine. The magazine itself has a maximum internal length of 3.005". My OAL at the lands came to 3.011" so at .030" jump I'm at 2.981". I expect this bullet to favor the .020"-.035" range like most other Berger Hybrids.

I do not have a scope for this rifle yet, but I could not resist doing some speed/pressure testing. Primers used were CCI200's. Using my Labradar, the first powder was AA Magpro which produced 2980fps. No pressure signs on case head other than the start of very minor primer mushrooming. Velocity told me I was close to max. Recoil was heavy. Load density was in the 96-97% range.

Next was Ramshot Magnum. I also took it to 2975fps with absolutely zero pressure signs on the case and zero primer mushrooming. Recoil was slightly less. Highest charge tested was right at 99-100% load density. So, I'm on the lookout for some more Magnum and 170EOL's for this gun. I would expect accuracy to be in the 2900-2950fps neighborhood in a 24". That's some excellent ballistics.

I have to say, the designers at Browning and Winchester got everything right on this one. No mods needed anywhere to the base rifle other than a trigger spring....and better muzzle brake. I'll update on the process once I get a scope....and components!

 

[gerry35]

Thanks for the report Tumbleweed, sounds real good so far! I have thought hard about one of the LH Browning's but think I'm going to wait for Christensen Arms, they are going ahead with producing 6.8 Western rifles but it's going to be next year. Starting to accumulate components though, the 175 gr Sierra TGK'S are a long bullet and look great. Have some of those 170 gr Berger's as well, just need brass and of course the rifle.