Thoughts on new 6.8 Western cartridge

[Formidilosus]

Seems manufacturers are pretty content to design cartridges around a small subset of bullets these days. The 6.5prc is a similar story.

Once you move past using MPBR, there is no advantage in using a lower BC bullet in a given cartridge. That the 7RM has a great number of 140-160gr bullets doesn’t mean anything. If someone wants to shoot a 140gr bullet, then they will always have better performance in finding a caliber that optimizes performance at 140 grains.

The 6.5 PRC is exactly the same.

 

[ABNRGRCSM]

Don’t know if anyone is interested but a pic of the different cartridges. I added the 7mm Rem Mag as the only LA as there seems to be a lot of comparison. .300 WSM, 7mm Rem Mag, 6.8 western, .270 WSM, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 CM

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dos Perros]

What do non-reloaders do if their rifle doesn’t like any of the factory offerings?

 

[marshland_max]

Another flash in the pan ......................lol

 

[marshland_max]

What do non-reloaders do if their rifle doesn’t like any of the factory offerings?

Buy a 270 win....................

 

[EmperorMA]

Any smart folks out there know if this new cartridge can be loaded with lighter bullets? The flexibility of this new round will be pretty marginal if the only thing that can be loaded are longer 160gr or larger bullets.

Sure the lighter bullets can be loaded in the 6.8 Western. But why would you want to do it?

You’re much better off varying construction of long, heavy for caliber bullets in the 6.8 Western, by its design. It’s velocity windows with these heavy bullets are perfect. You don’t have to worry about it if a trophy animal steps out from behind a tree at 10 yards or if another trophy steps into a clearing at 800 yards. The same bullet should hold up to the close-in impact and fly as true as possible to the distant target.

Lighter bullets can have quite a bit of trouble in both scenarios.

 

[Franger]

Once you move past using MPBR, there is no advantage in using a lower BC bullet in a given cartridge. That the 7RM has a great number of 140-160gr bullets doesn’t mean anything. If someone wants to shoot a 140gr bullet, then they will always have better performance in finding a caliber that optimizes performance at 140 grains.

The 6.5 PRC is exactly the same.

Let me see if I can distill a bit.

You’re essentially saying that sleek bullets and associated ballistics are changing the game for how we should view cartridge versatility? For instance, if I want a combo western gun that shoots coyotes up to elk, and I ignore MPBR, all I *should* care about is bullet construction for the different game and not versatile bullet weights.

That‘s actually a really cool way to look at these new ballistically efficient cartridges.

 

[Franger]

Sure the lighter bullets can be loaded in the 6.8 Western. But why would you want to do it?

You’re much better off varying construction of long, heavy for caliber bullets in the 6.8 Western, by its design. It’s velocity windows with these heavy bullets are perfect. You don’t have to worry about it if a trophy animal steps out from behind a tree at 10 yards or if another trophy steps into a clearing at 800 yards. The same bullet should hold up to the close-in impact and fly as true as possible to the distant target.

Lighter bullets can have quite a bit of trouble in both scenarios.

Yeah, see my reply in post #107. I think I’ve been looking at this all wrong.

Shoot the bullet CONSTRUCTION you need for a certain application. Who cares if it’s 130gr or 180gr.

 

[steffen707]

I’ve spent the better part of a lazy morning running ballistics for various comparable loads between the 6.8W and 7RM. Winchester has a 9in twist M70 Featherweight (I hope it’s not a typo since the rest of their 7RMs are 9.5in twists). That barrel can easily stabilize 175gr .284 pills of various makes/models. Add that to the availability of a great number of 140-160gr bullets in 7RM and I’m still scratching my head. The 6.8W is a great round if x, y, and z blah blah....and thus the issue with the cartridge.

Seems manufacturers are pretty content to design cartridges around a small subset of bullets these days. The 6.5prc is a similar story.

Glad somebody agrees with my thinking on this. I recently bought a 7RM due to the reasons you mentioned.

Any smart folks out there know if this new cartridge can be loaded with lighter bullets? The flexibility of this new round will be pretty marginal if the only thing that can be loaded are longer 160gr or larger bullets.

How light? pretty sure you can take any of the 270wsm bullets and load them. The 6.8w cartridge is only marginally shorter.

 

[Formidilosus]

What do non-reloaders do if their rifle doesn’t like any of the
If I rifle in

Let me see if I can distill a bit.

You’re essentially saying that sleek bullets and associated ballistics are changing the game for how we should view cartridge versatility? For instance, if I want a combo western gun that shoots coyotes up to elk, and I ignore MPBR, all I *should* care about is bullet construction for the different game and not versatile bullet weights.

That‘s actually a really cool way to look at these new ballistically efficient cartridges.

Yes sir.

 

[Formidilosus]

Let me see if I can distill a bit.

You’re essentially saying that sleek bullets and associated ballistics are changing the game for how we should view cartridge versatility? For instance, if I want a combo western gun that shoots coyotes up to elk, and I ignore MPBR, all I *should* care about is bullet construction for the different game and not versatile bullet weights.

That‘s actually a really cool way to look at these new ballistically efficient cartridges.

Yes sir. And in doing so, reduced wind drift, increased impact velocity and longer expansion range.

 

[brad407210]

Light bullets will probably just have a lot of jump to the lands, but depending on what you're trying to do that's not necessarily a bad thing. My first round of load development is a seating depth test from .050"-.150" off the lands, but sometimes I even go further and get good results. If you want to shoot light bullets I'd stick to 270WSM, but I like playing with new toys so once you can get components the 6.8 Western looks like a fun round to play with on paper.

 

[EmperorMA]

Yeah, see my reply in post #107. I think I’ve been looking at this all wrong.

Shoot the bullet CONSTRUCTION you need for a certain application. Who cares if it’s 130gr or 180gr.

Kind of.

If that 130gr bullet is a .25-cal and the 180gr is a 7mm, now we're talkin'.

If they are both .277-cal, then no bueno.

 

[bwidrick]

Not all hunters are gun nerds like us. You would have .270 Win ammo on the shelves loaded with heavy high BC bullets that Joe Average would buy for his old .270 Win that wouldn't stabilize and shoot all over the place.

I'm a Joe Average , but have been learning a lot from this forum since joining a few months ago. I have a Tikka 270wsm with factory 1-11 twist barrel. Was thinking of rebarreling to a faster twist barrel, like 1-7 or 1-8, to improve accuracy of heavier bullets. Any advantage to either of those twists over another? For a non-reloader, would i just be better off going to a 6.8w 1-8 twist barrel?

 

[steffen707]

I'm a Joe Average , but have been learning a lot from this forum since joining a few months ago. I have a Tikka 270wsm with factory 1-11 twist barrel. Was thinking of rebarreling to a faster twist barrel, like 1-7 or 1-8, to improve accuracy of heavier bullets. Any advantage to either of those twists over another? For a non-reloader, would i just be better off going to a 6.8w 1-8 twist barrel?

If you don't hand load, i don't think you'll find anything for 270wsm that needs a 7, or 8 twist in factory loads, and you can't shoot the 6.8w out of your 270wsm as is,

but I believe you could rebarrel and have a 6.8w chamber cut into that new barrel and then you would have a 6.8w that would have factory ammo with higher grain bullets. Its possible that factory will come out with 130-150grain 6.8w rounds, but i don't think initially they have.

 

[wyo2track]

I'm a Joe Average , but have been learning a lot from this forum since joining a few months ago. I have a Tikka 270wsm with factory 1-11 twist barrel. Was thinking of rebarreling to a faster twist barrel, like 1-7 or 1-8, to improve accuracy of heavier bullets. Any advantage to either of those twists over another? For a non-reloader, would i just be better off going to a 6.8w 1-8 twist barrel?

First, as a non-reloader, you have to assume that the 270 WSM will never be loaded with the new 160gr+ bullets that the 6.8 Western will be. Standard twist rate barrels of 1:10+ weren't designed for the new heavier .277 projectiles. OEM ammo will not be produced with these newer heavier .277 projectiles because of the hundreds of thousands of rifles with barrels on them that cannot stabilize them. So, if your Tikka shoots the factory 150 grain offerings fine now, there's really no advantage of rebarreling unless your going to get into reloading your own. A quick look through factory 270 WSM offereings, HSM and Nosler offer some high BC 150 using berger, sierra, and nosler long rang accubonds.

Now, if you were into reloading, and your factory magazine allows for a longer COAL, rebarreling that Tikka for the 270 WSM with a longer, custom throat, and fast twist barrel and you'll have a real screamin' long range .277 round.

 

[bwidrick]

If you don't hand load, i don't think you'll find anything for 270wsm that needs a 7, or 8 twist in factory loads, and you can't shoot the 6.8w out of your 270wsm as is,

but I believe you could rebarrel and have a 6.8w chamber cut into that new barrel and then you would have a 6.8w that would have factory ammo with higher grain bullets. Its possible that factory will come out with 130-150grain 6.8w rounds, but i don't think initially they have.

OK, so I'm thinking that the faster twist will help improve the accuracy of available 150s that I've struggled with, which it may help some, but I'm gathering that the real benefit of a 7 or 8 twist barrel will really only be fully realized on 165+gr bullets. Correct?

Also thinking that there's a good chance that the pillar & bedding project I just completed this weekend may help a good bit to improve the accuracy of the 150s (and others) regardless of a faster twist rate. That and working on my form & flinching issues.

 

[bwidrick]

Now, if you were into reloading, and your factory magazine allows for a longer COAL, rebarreling that Tikka for the 270 WSM with a longer, custom throat, and fast twist barrel and you'll have a real screamin' long range .277 round.

Now that is sounding pretty sexy! Temps me to think about getting into reloading. Just not sure there's enough motivation to put the investment into the equipment, knowledge and time commitment it would require.

Thanks all for the input & taking the time to educate an average joe!

 

[Reddirtrifleman]

OK, so I'm thinking that the faster twist will help improve the accuracy of available 150s that I've struggled with, which it may help some, but I'm gathering that the real benefit of a 7 or 8 twist barrel will really only be fully realized on 165+gr bullets. Correct?

Also thinking that there's a good chance that the pillar & bedding project I just completed this weekend may help a good bit to improve the accuracy of the 150s (and others) regardless of a faster twist rate. That and working on my form & flinching issues.

You're on the right track now. It might be worth checking if your 150s are meant to stabilize in a 1:11 or if they need the more typical 1:10. Either way, going to a 1:8 or faster will have a more dramatic effect on stabilizing the 165+ than it will on improving the 150s. The 150s might get better, but I would expect it to be incremental.

Solving flinching will have the cheapest improvement you can get.

 

[steffen707]

OK, so I'm thinking that the faster twist will help improve the accuracy of available 150s that I've struggled with, which it may help some, but I'm gathering that the real benefit of a 7 or 8 twist barrel will really only be fully realized on 165+gr bullets. Correct?

Also thinking that there's a good chance that the pillar & bedding project I just completed this weekend may help a good bit to improve the accuracy of the 150s (and others) regardless of a faster twist rate. That and working on my form & flinching issues.

double check that you can't over rotate lower grain bullets. I would assume there is a sweet spot, otherwise wouldn't all barrels be like 6twist barrels? There HAS to be some downside to having a faster twist barrel than you need.