this will be unpopular i am sure

[mtnwrunner]

Wolves are killing machines, it's what they do, they're better at it than a horse is at eating hay. In Alberta we can hunt them basically 10 months a year and there is no limit on how many you can kill. We can trap them too and there are still problems with them killing ungulates. We even have areas in the province that offer a bounty on them. We have no 'wolfies' trying to save them politically our laws encourage killing them and still they're a problem.

No one really has an answer on how to manage them properly, I was at a fish and game annual meeting a couple years back when some guy from U of A proposed catching the alpha's and sterilizing them, can you believe that shit? And this is from a province that allows you to kill them almost year round, imagine in a place that's run by tree hugging fools?

I couldn't even begin to imagine what the success rate would be if you had to draw a tag to hunt them? I'm guessing less that 5%.

They aren't even that fun to hunt, imo, I have shot 2. You pretty much have to catch them crossing a clearing and be really lucky.

If you have no wolves, be thankful, don't wish for them.

Good post. A lot of this thread has been about deer and elk numbers being down because of wolves. All that aside, how about all the other problems associated with wolves as in dead sheep, dead cows, dead dogs, dead horses, etc. If they are so good for us, how about sending them to New York or Washington DC??
Man, some things just need to be left alone........

Randy

 

[Beendare]

your numbers for WY are correct for the whole state but when you look at just the areas that have wolves in them it tells a different story. WY has a lot more hunting areas with out wolves than we do with wolves. I wish I could find them again to post the exact numbers but when you look at elk, deer and moose numbers in areas that have wolves they are on the decline.

Yep good post. You won't get a good rebuttal argument-there is none!

Wyomtnpounder brings up a good point- with wolves- we don't need sport hunting anymore...the wolves have taken care of controlling game species.

I've said it for years- its a BRILLIANT strategy devised by the antis that lobbied for wolves to be reintroduced;
1) it divides and conquers the hunters while the antis sit back and laugh at us arguing- just as its doing here
2) it slowly rids the US of sport hunting opportunities...with the secondary benefit of ticking off the ranchers and Ag guys

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[littlebuf]

please do explain how adding more predators to a controlled area (face it our "wildernesses" have boundaries of human population) could possibly raise the number of prey species. im all ears

Still waiting....

 

[Obi-wanshinobi]

You'll be waiting forever for an answer to that.

Wolves simply need to be managed. There's only enough prey species for one of us not both of us.

 

[Violent Hippie]

Back to the original post from tipsntails7 : The way I read the link is that these wolfs are native to the cascade region and not reintroduced ? If they are truly native and their numbers have remained low for such a long time I wonder what is spiking their population increase (they have been protected for a long time so why now would the population start increasing) ? Reintroduced or native really doesn't matter I guess. Either way this totally sucks for human hunters in the region.

 

[OR Archer]

Back to the original post from tipsntails7 : The way I read the link is that these wolfs are native to the cascade region and not reintroduced ? If they are truly native and their numbers have remained low for such a long time I wonder what is spiking their population increase (they have been protected for a long time so why now would the population start increasing) ? Reintroduced or native really doesn't matter I guess. Either way this totally sucks for human hunters in the region.

The wolves that have been reintroduced to the lower 48 are not native. The grey wolves that originally inhabited the lower 48 were on average 75-100lbs, not the 150+ lb wolves we have now. The wolves here now are actually hybrids. Many of them also carry a very infectious tape worm virus that is spreading to ungulate populations.

 

[Violent Hippie]

My lord ...What a mess.

 

[NoWiser]

Lots of misinformation on wolves here. Coming from someone who is neither a wolf lover or hater I would say the arguments both sides use are equally absurd.

 

[realunlucky]

Wildlife manage/ non-management based on political fallout is ridiculous. Follow the money on this issue you may find it eye opening.

 

[BroodBuster]

I agree with Nowiser.

The simple fact is they are here and they need to be managed. "I hunt elk and therefor want to kill every wolf that exists," is not a winning argument!

 

[realunlucky]

Gee golly since they are already here guess I should see the glass as half full. Fact not one of the "approved" management plans is meeting its objectives. Answer not sure but its not going to get better without some serious work

 

[Beendare]

Yeah, just manage them...there is the answer! pitiful head shake

Do you guys realize how absurd that comment is? Yeah, lets control psycho killers too while we are at it......

Seems to me we have a lot of failed "management" we can cite...and very little success.

 

[OR Archer]

Lots of misinformation on wolves here. Coming from someone who is neither a wolf lover or hater I would say the arguments both sides use are equally absurd.

Mind sharing what you think is misinformation?

 

[charvey9]

As an Oregon resident I'm very concerned. Wolves are very difficult to hunt in the best of circumstances, with very low success rate. Assuming this state ever comes up with a management plan, which is highly unlikely given the general public sentement toward wolves, your chance of harvesting a wolf is extremely low.

My home state of Michigan just completed their first Wolf season this past year. With a target of taking 43 wolves out of an approximate population of 650, they sold 1200 permits and in the end only accomplished taking 23 wolves. Deer hunting in the UP has continuted to deteroriate over the past decade in parrallel to the growing wolf population.

In general, I have no problem with wolves or any other predator for that matter. However, I am a hunter do not want to see those opportunities decrease. Maybe it is a bit selfish, but an elk and deer in the freezer for me each year means I do not need to buy any beef. If it comes down to me or a wolf with a full belly, that wolf can go to hell. Oregon has sustained quality game popluations and hunting for a long time without wolves in the environment. Why F that up just so you can hear a wolf call while in camp at night?

 

[NoWiser]

Mind sharing what you think is misinformation?

A couple off the top of my head:

Hybrid wolf - What exactly is a hybrid wolf? Most hybrid animals are sterile and can not reproduce. What are the wolves breeding with that makes them hybrid?

150 pound wolves - I'd like to see documentation of more than 1 or 2 150 pound wolves. It's really easy to claim a 150 pound wolf, but MUCH tougher to back it up. I shot one in MN that was 120 pounds. The large carnivore expert for the DNR questioned if that was the true weight because, if so, it would make it bigger than any of the hundreds that the federal trappers harvested from the state since they started doing the depredation thing. And, wolves weren't reintroduced to Minnesota (which is in the lower 48). They've always been here.

Tapeworm virus - A tapeworm is not a virus. And, tapeworms have always been extremely common before the introduction of the wolves. Almost any carnivore can carry tapeworms including foxes, coyotes, and lions. It's very normal for elk and moose to have tapeworm cysts in their organs and doesn't kill them. They pose no threat to humans unless you like eating wolf sh!t.

Keep in mind I strongly favor very liberal wolf hunting seasons to keep the population in check. Everyone complaining needs to make sure they have wolf tags with them when they are out and take advantage of any opportunities they have to harvest one. Better yet, actively hunt them. It's about as exciting as it gets calling a pack of howling wolves into close quarters.

Oregon is tough. With their history I don't see a wolf hunt taking place in the near future, and that sucks.

 

[Clarktar]

Tips, kudos for sticking with this thread as long as you did. If you do some digging you might find a similar thread I was involved in a few months back. I bowed out much sooner than you. I did not have the energy to dive into a lesson on quantitative ecology.

 

[Darren Best]

Elk counts for Yellowstone park ....

1994 - 19,000 elk, the year before wolves were introduced

2014 - 2,000 elk, 0 calf survival

Give it 2 or 3 years and the elk will be wiped out of Yellowstone. After that, everything else that they can catch and eat.

The wolf lovers are now seeing their precious wolves starving and are mounting a drive for people to send their sick and elderly pets for the wolves to eat.

I think Idaho is slowly realizing they made a big mistake. I do not think Washington and Oregon will come to the same conclusion.

Be careful what you wish for, you will probably get it.

 

[Beendare]

more divide and conquer hunters....

A couple off the top of my head:

Hybrid wolf - What exactly is a hybrid wolf? Most hybrid animals are sterile and can not reproduce. What are the wolves breeding with that makes them hybrid?

a simple google search will answer that question- documented cases or wolves and coyotes breeding- search coy-wolves.

150 pound wolves - I'd like to see documentation of more than 1 or 2 150 pound wolves. It's really easy to claim a 150 pound wolf, but MUCH tougher to back it up. I shot one in MN that was 120 pounds.

I've personally seen a few on the Ak islands that would have gone 150lbs+.... much bigger than my wifes old 140# german shepard. I would agree that the majority are smaller... also have friends that have seen them bigger than 150#.
Pictured, 9 mo old pup, friend on last years BC bear hunt

Oregon is tough. With their history I don't see a wolf hunt taking place in the near future, and that sucks.

Agreed

I did not have the energy to dive into a lesson on quantitative ecology.

Thank god we have guys out there that know so much more than the rest of us....I won't expend any more $$, time or effort to the problem- you experts have it all under control.

 

[Ryan Avery]

According to Idaho F@G the biggest wolf killed in Idaho was 128#. Biggest one ever collared 135#. Biggest documented wolf was from the thirty's in Canada at 175#.

 

[Clarktar]

Thank god we have guys out there that know so much more than the rest of us....I won't expend any more $$, time or effort to the problem- you experts have it all under control.

I appreciate the $$, time and effort you have expended to the issue. Also, thank you for lumping me into the "expert" category. For the record, I am not an expert in anything. Also I would not presume to know MORE than any one person, but I do think we all have particular skills, subjects, etc.. that we are more knowledgeable in as opposed to other skills or subjects. This is why being apart of particular groups, organizations, and forums such as this are appealing to me. They offer an opportunity to learn from a wide variety of people with a wide variety of skills and knowledge.