Thinking of going floorless

[MikeyBfromMT]

So, other then the tipi or tarp, what else would those of you using this type of system, recommend?

Thanks, Mike.

 

[Kevin Dill]

So, other then the tipi or tarp, what else would those of you using this type of system, recommend?

Thanks, Mike.

No clue really. It does beg the question: Why has nobody created a free-standing floorless tent yet?

 

[Jimbob]

No clue really. It does beg the question: Why has nobody created a free-standing floor less tent yet?

What's the benefit of freestanding? I just don't see it, you need to stake it down anyways so all you gain is a little bit of ease in set-up?

I would be more inclined to try a traditional two-man tent if pitching just the fly was a legit option though. I just purchased an eolus because I can use it floor less, and because they sold just the canopy. I will buy the nest or make my own if needed. If other tent manufactures had a good canopy pitching option or sold their tent pieces individually I would have been more interested.

Gotta love all the options out there though.

 

[Kevin Dill]

What's the benefit of freestanding? I just don't see it, you need to stake it down anyways so all you gain is a little bit of ease in set-up?

Likely no benefit for me. I could see guys preferring a specific shape or inside dimension. More vertical sidewalls maybe. More familiar shape and easier to accept vs a full-on tipi. I'll reach out and predict someone will build a silpoly freestanding floorless tent with a stove-jack....some day....for those guys who just do NOT like the center-pole tipis. I'm 100% certain they would sell....if they ever got built.

 

[LionHead]

You need to compare apples to apples, that means floor area needs to be factored into the equation. A tiny two man tent is nothing like a supertarp.

It is really cool that you can get ultra lightweight tents but if you go floor less you can get that same ultra lightweight at a bigger size. It's not just how low you can get the ounces its how BIG you can get the shelter at those low ounces.

Amen

Plus you get flexibly. Ive used my old super tarp and now megatarp as a day sun/rain shelter to glass from or sit out passing rainstorm. A freestanding tent it just a tent.

If you go with a nest/bivy you have two parts to a system. Backcountry Legos if you will. Floors are stupid and are just extra weight. The aha moment came for me my first night in my supertarp 10 years ago, haven't looked back.

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[zip_1.5]

Amen

Plus you get flexibly. Ive used my old super tarp and now megatarp as a day sun/rain shelter to glass from or sit out passing rainstorm. A freestanding tent it just a tent.

If you go with a nest/bivy you have two parts to a system. Backcountry Legos if you will. Floors are stupid and are just extra weight. The aha moment came for me my first night in my supertarp 10 years ago, haven't looked back.

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Lightweight H20 proof bivy takes away any concern with water splashing in (can also use if bugs are an issue). That and the versatility of a tarp are a great combo!

 

[TexasCub]

Every once in a while when I’m in REI and I see the tents on display I think man there is no room in those tents. Take a sub 3 lb tarp or tipi type floorless tent and they are like a palace. I end up with gear strewn all over and never feel cramped. Can’t see a scenario in which I will ever buy another actual tent. There are so many good options out there that don’t break the bank in floorless shelters that are more than what a guy needs and don’t even get me started on having a wood stove in there, simply can’t be beat.

 

[Wrench]

I use a bivy....because I love my badger too much to risk pine sap. I take a piece of plastic just incase god hates me.

I started into the single walled shelter about 15-20 years ago. If I can't take my travel trailer, and it's hauled on my back or bike....it's my best option. Truck camping, I'll take the alaknak for sure unless I'm solo.

Stand up in your 3# tent sometime. You have to Un stake it to do so. Light your stove it that tent some time....stop laughing.

For hunting, floorless makes a lot of sense.

 

[Mike7]

Floorless should be able to beat a regular tent in weight every time except for when you are running a substantial breathable material inner nest (not just mosquito netting) during the winter.

For example, my buddy has a Luna 3 in Cuben and I have a Menkaura Sil. His is lighter than mine, but both weight at or less than 1 1/2 lbs with stakes and guylines. They each can fit both of us with all our gear or one of us with gear, a stove, and room for a dog. Since they are pyramids, it is easy to adjust height for ventilation or suck one side or all sides down close to the ground in stormy conditions with swirling winds.

So for 1 guy that is 12 ounces for a bombproof shelter if you are sharing it. Add a couple of ounces for a pole extender if you want to keep a trekking pole free, a few ounces for Tyvek, and a few ounces for Sea to Summit netting depending upon the time of year. So you are at less than 1 1/2 lbs for your shelter per person, or just over 2 lbs if going solo for what basically is a a roomy tent with an awning, and which can handle 4 season conditions. I don't know of any other tent that can come close to that.

Also you can use the pyramid to glass out of with 1 side completely opened up and a person can use the Sea to Summit net to nap under in the shade or wrap around you to glass with comfortably when it is really buggy.

 

[Dos Perros]

Has anyone in the history of backpacking who had a free-standing tent in their backpack not pitched it and slept inside? I used to run a tent and I always set it up. It was a very natural thing to do. You get to camp, you set up your tent.

Now, been running floorless for 4 years, I only find myself setting it up about half the time. Meaning the other half I'm cowboy camping because the sky is clear and why bother setting it up if it's not going to rain?

I think the tent gives you that secure feeling that you can get inside...there is a clear delineation between "in here in the tent" and "out there outside the tent." A bug can't get "in here." A snake can't get "in here."

But with floorless it's not that clear. You will share your canopy with bugs. A mouse will run across your chest at night. And, once you've accepted that, you are able to also accept just sleeping in the dirt under the stars. It's practically the same thing. That freedom, and it's really just freedom from your mind, is wonderful.

 

[bummer7580]

Not to hijack your thread but I will toss in a notion here.

How much weight does floorless really save? I agree there are other benefits but is weight saving really one of them?

A quick note, I prefer to camp without a tent. Tarp, bivy or cowboy camp. Hunting or hiking I will take no tent every time except when there are evil bugs or bad weather to contend with.

So...Lots of variables, so let’s consider 2 hunters and no stove and look at a few tent options at different weights and price points:

Rei quarter dome 2 = 40oz or 20 per person with 2 hunters
Tarptent StratoSpire 2 = 44oz or 22 per person
Zpacks duplex = 24oz with stakes and Guylines so 11oz per person

Then look at a few tarps:

SO DST = 24oz with stakes and lines so 12 per person
Kifaru supertarp = 36oz so 18 per person
Zpacks 8.5x10 = 12oz with stakes and lines so 6 each

But most people use other items in addition the tarp. Add a ground cloth for 4-10oz per person and maybe a bivy for 6-16oz per person and you are looking at 16oz per person at the lowest end with all Dyneema / ultralight stuff or up to 44oz for pretty robust gear. Maybe you could go to 10oz with half a dyneema tarp and a 4oz ground cloth (dyneema or polycro)

Granted, the examples above is very simple and the math changes with more less hunters and if you add a stove or go with a tipi or more complex floorless rig. However, I have been upgrading some gear lately with a focus weight reduction and after looking at some options, I can’t convince myself that I will lose a ton of pack weight by going floorless.

You have made excellent points. As I read this thread people are talking about using a bug nest and carrying Tyvek to sleep on, I have to wonder what is the appeal of floorless. The ability to use a stove on occasion would be nice. I guess we all have different likes.

 

[AK Troutbum]

Not to hijack your thread but I will toss in a notion here.

How much weight does floorless really save? I agree there are other benefits but is weight saving really one of them?

A quick note, I prefer to camp without a tent. Tarp, bivy or cowboy camp. Hunting or hiking I will take no tent every time except when there are evil bugs or bad weather to contend with.

So...Lots of variables, so let’s consider 2 hunters and no stove and look at a few tent options at different weights and price points:

Rei quarter dome 2 = 40oz or 20 per person with 2 hunters
Tarptent StratoSpire 2 = 44oz or 22 per person
Zpacks duplex = 24oz with stakes and Guylines so 11oz per person

Then look at a few tarps:

SO DST = 24oz with stakes and lines so 12 per person
Kifaru supertarp = 36oz so 18 per person
Zpacks 8.5x10 = 12oz with stakes and lines so 6 each

But most people use other items in addition the tarp. Add a ground cloth for 4-10oz per person and maybe a bivy for 6-16oz per person and you are looking at 16oz per person at the lowest end with all Dyneema / ultralight stuff or up to 44oz for pretty robust gear. Maybe you could go to 10oz with half a dyneema tarp and a 4oz ground cloth (dyneema or polycro)

Granted, the examples above is very simple and the math changes with more less hunters and if you add a stove or go with a tipi or more complex floorless rig. However, I have been upgrading some gear lately with a focus weight reduction and after looking at some options, I can’t convince myself that I will lose a ton of pack weight by going floorless.

I definitely agree that you won't loose a ton of wt. with going floorless, but you will loose wt., and the whole purpose of going UL is reducing wt. everywhere you can while still being safe and comfortable. Another thing that I think most people do is assume that if a tent manufacture states that a particular tent weighs such and such oz., than that's what it weighs. I'm not saying that you're doing that, but in my experience, those tents don't always weigh what the manufacture states, and more often than not, they weigh more. Then you start seam sealing, using longer/heavier stakes, that are more appropriate for the conditions, and that wt. just keeps going up. I weigh everything and I know my wts. are accurate. When I compared my Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2 (with footprint, because I didn't trust myself not puncturing the floor), manufactures stated wt., to what mine weighted after seam sealing, etc., it ended up being significantly more, at approx. 48 oz. This was for a freestanding tent that was very, very tight with 2 people in it, and collapsed down on top of you in a good blow. My most used 2 person floorless shelter weighs 17 oz. all included. We do add UL wt. bivy's to this (so another 9-10 oz. on top of the 17 oz., or 26-27 oz. total), and this gives us a shelter that is much larger, and much more storm worthy, than the Fly Creek. If we really want to stretch out, we'll pack a 4 person shelter, at 46 oz. all in, and have a huge amount of room to sprawl out, with all our gear inside. So, like you describe in your comparisons, not a ton of wt. savings, but much roomier, much more storm worthy, and IMO much more conducive to my kind of camping. Every little bit counts, 4 oz. here, 12 oz. there, etc., etc., and the next thing you know, your pack weighs 15 lbs. less than when you started.

 

[Mike 338]

I see the advantage in floorless as trading floor weight for stove weight. Not exactly an even trade though. I have a three man floorless and it's plenty of tent however with the stove in it, you sort'a move around the center of the tent and you have to crouch alot because of the pitch of the walls. I end up moving around on my knees and after a few days, you get a quite a bit of dirt ground into your pants. Mice can get in and that can freak some people out. I need some kind of ground cloth because there's no way I'm gonna stay on top of my sleeping pad all night but you can come up with something simple and lightweight. It's just one of those things you gotta try. The stove was a very fair trade off. A guy could rig a tarp as a tester (no stove) just to see what it's all about.

 

[Bigwoods2]

I have a 5 man tipi and stove. Its a slick set up and ive used it but not much. Not a huge need for it where I live so it gets left behind. I like the floorless system. Ive been in it in the 20's with snow and ithandled it very well. The stove is a great resourse for cutting the chill and drying out clothes. I am seeling it though because I just dont use it enough.

 

[Takeem406]

Just don't set up in a bowl or in a crick and you'll be fine.

I have started using a UL Bivy in my Sawtooth because the ground bugs in Montana are a pain through September. Not needed but who wants spiders and ants crawling on them.

Another option is going to a flat tarp and UL Bivy ike Mountain Laurel bug bivy 2. This is my choice for fair to rainy weather. If it gets cold or snow I'll use the Sawtooth with the stove.

Before the Sawtooth I had a Megatarp. The Mega was OK. But on long trips even solo it got cramped. Then the condensation got bad with the stove going even with a lot of ventilation.

So now I'll pack a little extra weight with the Sawtooth and a liner. It's definitely more gooder for longer trips. It looks huge. But it's actually just the right size for one guy, gear, and firewood for a week. You can also cut a pound off by using a carbon fiber center pole and leaving the back metal pole at home and having Kif add an extra guy out point.

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[wind gypsy]

Not to hijack your thread but I will toss in a notion here.

How much weight does floorless really save? I agree there are other benefits but is weight saving really one of them?

A quick note, I prefer to camp without a tent. Tarp, bivy or cowboy camp. Hunting or hiking I will take no tent every time except when there are evil bugs or bad weather to contend with.

So...Lots of variables, so let’s consider 2 hunters and no stove and look at a few tent options at different weights and price points:

Rei quarter dome 2 = 40oz or 20 per person with 2 hunters
Tarptent StratoSpire 2 = 44oz or 22 per person
Zpacks duplex = 24oz with stakes and Guylines so 11oz per person

Then look at a few tarps:

SO DST = 24oz with stakes and lines so 12 per person
Kifaru supertarp = 36oz so 18 per person
Zpacks 8.5x10 = 12oz with stakes and lines so 6 each

But most people use other items in addition the tarp. Add a ground cloth for 4-10oz per person and maybe a bivy for 6-16oz per person and you are looking at 16oz per person at the lowest end with all Dyneema / ultralight stuff or up to 44oz for pretty robust gear. Maybe you could go to 10oz with half a dyneema tarp and a 4oz ground cloth (dyneema or polycro)

Granted, the examples above is very simple and the math changes with more less hunters and if you add a stove or go with a tipi or more complex floorless rig. However, I have been upgrading some gear lately with a focus weight reduction and after looking at some options, I can’t convince myself that I will lose a ton of pack weight by going floorless.

It's nice to have both options. The weight difference is more substantial when you're not splitting a shelter (which I have never done). I still like having a stratospire 2 and an option but a DCF Duomid and bivy save me 20 ounces and are plenty comfortable.

 

[mrbillbrown]

I started with the Super and Mega tarp. Complete game changer for me chasing elk in the mtns. After a few trips I realized I didn’t care for the crawling in and out business. Switched to the Tut and haven’t looked back. Well worth the slight weight penalty for the extra room and walking in and out of it.


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[20DYNAMITE07]

No clue really. It does beg the question: Why has nobody created a free-standing floorless tent yet?

Several free standing tents can be set up with just the rain fly and without the tent body. I think Sierra Designs does one, and i know MSR does too...

 

[Stoney920]

I tried going floorless, bought a seek outside silver tip and used it a couple of times, condensation was pretty bad. Ended up going with a Mountain Star from Kuiu, I like it much better and way easier to set up.

 

[Cschelin24]

Love these replies. Great topic. I'm switching this year