Questions about floorless shelters

[BigDuckHunter]

Pitch a floorless shelter in the rain and your gonna want a ground cloth, which defeats the weight savings.
Even in summer i want a groundcloth under my thermarest for abrasion and protection.
Maybe in late summer after the bugs have died off on a nice sunny weekend a floorless might save 1/2lb shelter weight. Pretty small window of usefulness IMO.

That's kind of what I'm starting to think. I may still end up with one at some point just so I can run a stove in it, but that will probably wait until I'm going to be on a real cold weather backpacking trip.

 

[*zap*]

I have a msr elixer 2 that I purchased on here along with the msr gear shed...I put a stove jack in the gear shed which is mostly floorless....have not used it yet thou.

I think a person really needs to use these different style shelters himself to understand what is going to be best for him....

 

[Drenalin]

1. I sleep under the tarp, away from the edges, and don't pitch in low lying areas. Rain and snow have not been an issue at all.
2. Yes to mice, I've had a bivy and shirt chewed up by them - which is entirely possible in a tent as well. I've also been woken up by spiders crawling across my face. When it's buggy, I add a lightweight bivy (all of the versions I've used were less than 8 ounces).
3. I use a tarp, with or without a bivy, year round. Car camping, a tent is simpler and the weight doesn't matter, so that's the only time I use an actual tent.

Tarps I use vary from 12 ounces to 22 ounces, with stakes and rigging. A bivy adds 8 ounces (or less), or I swap that out for a groundsheet when I'm not using a bivy. A groundsheet can be 4-8 ounces. So total shelter weight varies from 16 to 30 ounces for me, with the heavier end of that representing a large flat tarp that I can pitch a multitude of ways in response to current wind and precipitation conditions.

Floorless can be a little more finnicky than an full tent, but in my opinion is more versatile. It's not for everyone though, like most things.

 

[Bearwhisky]

Another advantage to a floorless shelter is being able to roll over and piss out of your sleeping bag in the middle of the night. This might be my favorite feature of floorless. Beats the hell out of getting out sleeping bag, putting boots on, unzipping tent, getting snow or rain all over you then trying to settle back in for the night. Ive gotten to the point I usually just bring a tarp and pitch a plow point shelter off of a tree. Surprised I dont see more guys talking about that shelter set up on here. Super light, fast to set up, easy pitch.


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[BigDuckHunter]

1. I sleep under the tarp, away from the edges, and don't pitch in low lying areas. Rain and snow have not been an issue at all.
2. Yes to mice, I've had a bivy and shirt chewed up by them - which is entirely possible in a tent as well. I've also been woken up by spiders crawling across my face. When it's buggy, I add a lightweight bivy (all of the versions I've used were less than 8 ounces).
3. I use a tarp, with or without a bivy, year round. Car camping, a tent is simpler and the weight doesn't matter, so that's the only time I use an actual tent.

Tarps I use vary from 12 ounces to 22 ounces, with stakes and rigging. A bivy adds 8 ounces (or less), or I swap that out for a groundsheet when I'm not using a bivy. A groundsheet can be 4-8 ounces. So total shelter weight varies from 16 to 30 ounces for me, with the heavier end of that representing a large flat tarp that I can pitch a multitude of ways in response to current wind and precipitation conditions.

Floorless can be a little more finnicky than a full tent, but in my opinion is more versatile. It's not for everyone though, like most things.

When you say bivy, I assume you’re talking about the waterproof bags that go over your sleeping bag? What need is there for that if the shelter keeps the rain/moisture off you? I’ve never used one of those before so I figured they were instead of a more traditional shelter rather than in addition to.

 

[BBob]

When you say bivy, I assume you’re talking about the waterproof bags that go over your sleeping bag? What need is there for that if the shelter keeps the rain/moisture off you? I’ve never used one of those before so I figured they were instead of a more traditional shelter rather than in addition to.

He's probably referring to an MLD or Borah lightweight DCF. A lightweight DCF bivy like an MLD or Borah will keep your pad and bag dry even if under the tarp floods. They are a partial mesh w/breathable top DCF bathtub construction. There are some with full mesh tops available too. They are 5oz give or take. I use a DCF tent fly at 12oz (with stakes and cord) and an MLD DCF bivy at 5oz for a total of ~17oz. I used a stick on loop on the tarp to keep the bivy off my face. They'll keep the bugs and mice off you too. I don't know about the Borah but the MLD has two tie out loops at the upper end that can be used to keep it in place.

 

[Drenalin]

When you say bivy, I assume you’re talking about the waterproof bags that go over your sleeping bag? What need is there for that if the shelter keeps the rain/moisture off you? I’ve never used one of those before so I figured they were instead of a more traditional shelter rather than in addition to.

He's probably referring to an MLD or Borah lightweight DCF. A lightweight DCF bivy like an MLD or Borah will keep your pad and bag dry even if under the tarp floods. They are a partial mesh w/breathable top DCF bathtub construction. There are some with full mesh tops available too. They are 5oz give or take. I use a DCF tent fly at 12oz (with stakes and cord) and an MLD DCF bivy at 5oz for a total of ~17oz. I used a stick on loop on the tarp to keep the bivy off my face. They'll keep the bugs and mice off you too. I don't know about the Borah but the MLD has two tie out loops at the upper end that can be used to keep it in place.

Correct, specifically Katabatic or Borah bivvies. Both have loops at the head end to tie off. I use them to keep bugs off, and in that scenario the bivy replaces my ground sheet.

 

[ewade07]

Just get yourself one of the argali 2p or 4p tents nd run one of the full or half inserts.

1. we've ran our floorless tents in some absolute deluges and never had sheet flow. get a lightweight ground cloth or an insert.
2. yes, critters have a possibility of sleeping with you. one time i was laying down to sleep and i felt/heard some scratching from under my pad. lifted it up and there was a damn mole that had burrowed up from the ground. again, insert would help but mice like to chew
3. ive dug out a foot of snow to setup my floorless shelter. laid my ground sheet down, insulated pad ontop of that then went to bed. only time it would really suck is if your diggin through FEET of snow.

from the sound of it youre talking yourself into not having a floorless tent. i have a gossamer gear the two tent and that things pretty slick, built in insert and it weighs less than two pounds. something like this may be more up your alley

 

[S.Clancy]

The only time I won't do floorless is bugs/crawlies. I'm not talking mosquitoes or ticks, I'm talking giant wolf spiders, scorpions and snakes. I've woke up to big spiders crawling around on me, no thank you.

 

[Purdue]

I will happily carry the extra weight and sleep in warm (no wind), dry, miceless comfort!

 

[Koda_]

When you say bivy, I assume you’re talking about the waterproof bags that go over your sleeping bag? What need is there for that if the shelter keeps the rain/moisture off you? I’ve never used one of those before so I figured they were instead of a more traditional shelter rather than in addition to.

Tarp shelters are different than Floorless shelters in that they offer less protection to the elements, (with a tarp there is usually at least one open end depending on setup). So its common to combine the use of a bivy with a tarp shelter and put your feed to the opening of the tarp. Often, the weight of the tarp, plus bivy sack plus ground cloth equals the weight of a good UL fully enclosed shelter. There are some very experienced tarp users that know different ways to stake out the tarp (like origami) to minimize exposure almost completely but consider that for advanced tarping.

In a fully enclosed shelter you don't need a bivy, floorless or not. To save time and money and frustration (that can ruin a campout/hunt) its best to start out with a fully enclosed shelter. Generally a good shelter lands into the buy once cry once category and it will last you years of protection in the worst conditions allowing you to focus on the trip and having fun.

IMO a good shelter is rated for one more person than needed, to store your pack and boots in the rain. A fully enclosed shelter should weigh no more than about 1.5lbs per person capacity.
MSR Free Light 3 person: 3lbs

 

[mighteywhitehunter]

It all depends on where, how and time of year. You have to try out a few shelter options before you will know what works for you.

I have 4 different tents ranging from 12oz (single person floorless) to 200+lbs(Davis Wall Tent and stove). 3 of the 4 are/can be "floorless".

1) water can be an issue in any tent. Choose your location to pitch a tent well.
2) Bugs and other small critters will always be an issue. People have a hard time keeping mice and rats out of their own houses let alone a single piece of silnylon. That being said it is an infrequent occurrence in all of the western states I have camped in. So I dont worry about it.
3)It depends. Expected weather vs actual weather, camping location, type of hunt, weight limits etc.

 

[rayporter]

you should take note of the number of folks with more than one shelter.

 

[Drenalin]

I've gotten to the point I usually just bring a tarp and pitch a plow point shelter off of a tree. Surprised I don't see more guys talking about that shelter set up on here. Super light, fast to set up, easy pitch.

This is my go-to pitch most of the time. 3 stakes and one piece of cord, goes up in like 90 seconds, and is palatial for one person and gear.

 

[SteveinMN]

I think the main reason to use floorless is to have a stove....after that is the weight factor and ease of use (no worries about getting the floor dirty).

Ding Ding Ding! If it's not cold enough for the stove I'll be sleeping under a tarp in my hammock with a bug net on it. Once it's cold enough that a stove is wanted either as a luxury or a necessity, it's time for the Redcliff.

Only the mouse issue remains in that type of cold, and as stated above mice get into floored tents too. Only difference is that you'll need to repair your floored tent while they don't need to chew their way into a floorless. The pic below is the worst mouse damage I've had so far. Could have been catastrophic without backup toiled paper.

 

[Koda_]

Youll never get a mouse if you store your food outside the tent.

 

[*zap*]

The great thing about cold is-no venemous snakes.

 

[MTN BUM]

Yes, it seems that a nest would kind of address these things, but much of the weight savings is lost there. In that case I might as well use the freestanding tent I've got. I'm just trying to decide whether I'd want to use one without a nest enough to justify spending the money on one. Based on the responses and kind of camping I do, I'm thinking it might make sense to spend the money on other things to lighten my pack first.

IMO thats an easy question to answer- yes. You will use it enough in floorless mode to justify and feel good about it. I use a nest in a very small minority of cases.

 

[SonnyDay]

Agreed with others that the point of a floorless shelter is to be able to use a stove (close second is being able to stand up).

I hunt rifle seasons so have never had bugs, snakes, etc. It also doesn't rain that late. We've had some snowmelt that can dampen down bags that fall off the pads, but tyvec or some kind of ground cloth is the key there.

We backpack in to pretty pristine areas so have never had an issue with mice or other vermin. We do cook and eat in the tipi but keep things pretty clean and hang our food in a tree during the day.

I use a traditional tent for anything where there's creepy crawlys in the forecast...