The Problem With Hunting Clothing Brands Today

[twall13]

Not that I am aware of. But, I will say in order to get the benefits of merino you need mostly merino fabric. I think at least 80% merino or else the smell benefits disappear pretty fast. The other thing is you would lose the moisture wicking and add weight by doing a blend. I'm a big merino wool fan for some things, but I'm not sure it would do well with Alpha fabric, IMO.

Not sure I fully agree on the Merino percentages but you likely have more scientific data to back out up than me. I just know I have socks with lower than 80% merino that do a pretty good job fighting off funk. Same with some Merino blend hoodies. I can't argue with the added weight and loss of moisture wicking though. Maybe camel or yak wool would do better? Maybe it's a bad idea, just seems worth exploring to me.

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[Jhconnected]

I’d stalk the FB B/S/T groups. They always have feedback on them about wants from the different product lines.

 

[nnmarcher]

Not that I am aware of. But, I will say in order to get the benefits of merino you need mostly merino fabric. I think at least 80% merino or else the smell benefits disappear pretty fast. The other thing is you would lose the moisture wicking and add weight by doing a blend. I'm a big merino wool fan for some things, but I'm not sure it would do well with Alpha fabric, IMO.

I’ve never handled this fabric, so I can’t speak to its performance or construction. Looks like it may just be Polartec Alpha with merino wool backing?

Polartec® Alpha Direct with Wool 4048

Polartec® Alpha Direct is an evolution of the original Alpha insulation that eliminates the need for a backing fabric. Alpha Direct can be worn directly against the skin or other fabric layers. This increases the breathability, reduces the overall garment weight, and allows for greater creative...

ripstopbytheroll.com

63% polyester
33% wool
4% nylon

 

[Brad@Argali]

I’ve never handled this fabric, so I can’t speak to its performance or construction. Looks like it may just be Polartec Alpha with merino wool backing?

Polartec® Alpha Direct with Wool 4048

Polartec® Alpha Direct is an evolution of the original Alpha insulation that eliminates the need for a backing fabric. Alpha Direct can be worn directly against the skin or other fabric layers. This increases the breathability, reduces the overall garment weight, and allows for greater creative...

ripstopbytheroll.com

63% polyester
33% wool
4% nylon

I'd be interested to learn more but I'd bet with 33% wool any benefits of merino wouldnt be apparent.

 

[Brad@Argali]

Not sure I fully agree on the Merino percentages but you likely have more scientific data to back out up than me. I just know I have socks with lower than 80% merino that do a pretty good job fighting off funk. Same with some Merino blend hoodies. I can't argue with the added weight and loss of moisture wicking though. Maybe camel or yak wool would do better? Maybe it's a bad idea, just seems worth exploring to me.

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Absolutely. Ive been down this rabbit hole a fair bit. My head was in the same place as yours for a while.

 

[Moosehunter]

My problem with hunting clothing brands is the price.
Loads of marketing equals price increase to pay for marketing (I think, I really have no clue).
I get supporting hunting companies...kinda. But so far it hasn't been proven over and over that they're always better people to support (no experience with Argalli).

Influencers are our end...not our beginning.
Please don't pay people to use your gear @Brad@Argali

 

[conhawa]

I thought the Ambient was a good piece, it just didn’t fit my needs.

In my defense, us Appalachian whitetail hunters are still trying to figure out where we fall in the hunting clothing industry. Many of us are hiking miles deep into elevation and deep vegetation but are static when we get there. We don’t need the bulk that comes with typical whitetail gear built for Midwest stand hunters, but we also need more static insulation layers. It’s a fine balance.

Yes! I totally agree with this. One example is trying to find quiet rain gear with pit zips. I would also like to find something similar to a glassing pant with a quiet brushed face that can be thrown on after hiking in up mountains.

 

[jd1006]

What sucks is the movement to focus on lifestyle apparel within the hunting industry. You have to really pay attention to the features and fabrics being used because half the pants/shirts are just basic stuff and offer nothing particular in terms of advanced features. Kuiu/Stone Glacier are doing this heavily lately. Sitka has been for a while.

Watching what Outdoor Vitals with this developed run of features that our niche is asking for is refreshing—but I thought Stone Glacier and Kuiu basically started in that realm. It’s unfortunate these companies have a hard time staying true to their origins and then the brand gets co-opted into something completely different.

Sitka has at least kept a high performance focused on parts of their gear lines, but they are doing so at a huge cost. The new timberline pro pants are $330!!! They are basically Fjallraven Keb pants, which can be found for half the price.

 

[cloy]

The price for a Kuiu whitetail kit rivals a months mortgage. Nice stuff, but I do struggle justifying the… “investment.” Unfortunately, other brands cost the same.

A public land hunt starts looking like this:
$2000 bow/sight/arrows/release/etc.
$400 tree saddle.
$200 climbing sticks.
$200 base layers.
$150 pants.
$300 jacket.
$200 boots.
$170 for license/tags.
$200 daypack.
$200 rangefinder.
Probably left something out.

That’s over $4k to MAYBE shoot a whitetail. If the public land doesn’t get sold.

 

[LionHead]

I'm built like a refrigerator and haven't really found a hunting clothing company that makes clothes in a cut that fits me right, pretty much ever. I mountain hunt everysingle rear in a mish-mash of merino base layers from outdoor hiking companies,ski gear, and military clothes.

Not a single hunting company has made a pair of pants for a large man that considers the size of quads and glutes of someone in the 3x/4x range who would engage in this sport. If pants don't fit me it's usually because of the thighs not the waist.

Nor a jacket that considers the shoulder, chest and lat mass a 3x/4x hunter would have. Again if it doesnt fit its because the shoulder yoke is too tight or the arm holes/are too small.

Its crazy how I can drop a full size in clothes by switching into Levi's, wranglers or BDU pants or Columbia and Carhartt for jackets.

It appears as if most hunting companies have a person they use to create a large or an XL size cltothing line for and simply add 2" to each dimension for every X they tack on the size. If you look at most size charts a 3xl waist in pants would equal about an XL or XXL in non hunting brands.

A 3xL "slim fit" is just 2XL. No one 3XL is slim were beefy meat trucks and we need some wiggle room

What I need for western hunting is
Hooded longsleeve merino base about 150gsm with a 1/4 zip neck for venting.

Light soft shell no hood pit zips and mid chest pockets (does double duty as mid layer and for brush busting)

Packable down puffy no hood

Packable hooded rain jacket with pit zips with stretch fabric

No more upper and lower pockets just mid chest hand/stash pockets that sit above the pack belt and accessible with a bino harness, with mesh backing for venting. Triple aught designs nailed this with their the recon/steath jackets

Pants something durable like 65/33/2 poly/cotton/spandex BDU. Classic 6 pocket design, knee pad pockets and hip vents. Keep the thigh pocket high maybe an inch or 2 below the slash pockets I can't stand shit dangling on my knee because they mounted the cargo pockets too low.

Fully zip off rain pants, packable and stretchy sized to fit over BDU and puffy pants

Fully zip off merino leggings sized to fit under BDU pants

Fully zip off down puffy glassing pants. Sized to fit under rain shell but over BDU pants

Thats all I got

 

[ArmyAg97]

What sucks is the movement to focus on lifestyle apparel within the hunting industry. You have to really pay attention to the features and fabrics being used because half the pants/shirts are just basic stuff and offer nothing particular in terms of advanced features. Kuiu/Stone Glacier are doing this heavily lately. Sitka has been for a while.

Watching what Outdoor Vitals with this developed run of features that our niche is asking for is refreshing—but I thought Stone Glacier and Kuiu basically started in that realm. It’s unfortunate these companies have a hard time staying true to their origins and then the brand gets co-opted into something completely different.

Sitka has at least kept a high performance focused on parts of their gear lines, but they are doing so at a huge cost. The new timberline pro pants are $330!!! They are basically Fjallraven Keb pants, which can be found for half the price.

I recognize this is inevitably going to happen. Lifestyle clothing is where the money is at. However, the way this "should" work at least IMO is have the lifestyle volume allow companies to lower the cost for the hunting specific lines. Unfortunately, what seems to happen is as the lifestyle side grows cost cutting happens in the hunting lines to bring them in line from a margin standpoint.

I will say that what I look for is clothing and gear that can be used in a number of different areas, Western, Whitetail, birds, tactical training, hiking / camping. I know others are interested in task specific stuff, but if I'm dropping a couple of hundred dollars for pants, I need them to be capable (not necessarily ideal) in multiple areas.

 

[elsb0048]

I’m genuinely interested in the priorities you think are important for a western clothing line. How important is being quiet, fit, function, price? How important are feature sets? I’m listening to what you have to say.

#1 for me by far is fit (maybe because I'm a bit of an outlier size-wise at 6'5")
#2 Function
#3 Quiet (for most pieces, unless I'm specifically getting it for still-hunting)
#4 price, I will pay a premium if I think its worth it.

I think feature sets are often overdone / overblown. K.I.S.S.
That said thoughtful design is evident: pocket placement, hood controls etc.
Don't just add features to market bells & whistles.

I'm not sure if others feel this way but I struggle to get an idea of fabrics & fits from website descriptions. If you could keep the marketers out and educate the customer on the real details in your website and/or on blogs etc that would be huge. I would consider exo's format to be exemplary here.

I wonder if a made-to-order option would be viable at all a-la madeoutdoor or propercloth.
If the customer could select their fit (regular/trim/thin) & what pockets to include or not from a menu would be my dream. Although perhaps that's a pipe dream lol

 

[Redthies]

First lite was on the right track in the beginning with Scott and Kenton, but I dont blame them for selling. That was the plan all along. Ive known Scott for over 20yrs, long before FL was even an idea in his head. When he started it and I got some of the first items long before they sold anything to consumers back in 07', the goal from day 1 was to build a western clothing company based off merino wool, then sell and enjoy life. Which they both are doing. I have multiple friends who worked for the company in the original days who are no longer there due to the Meateater ways and takeover. Its a corporation based on making money. Now that they seem to spend more focus on whitetail and other shi* that was never the original message, I have a hard time wanting to support the company anymore. I think the hard thing is, when it gets into creating gear, consumers keep wanting to see more and more, and expansion which has pushed brands to go away from quality and the original focus of western hunting.

I personally find myself wearing solid colors almost always. The fad of creating new camo etc, is just wasted money IMO. Solids have killed animals for decades. I feel like you could save money focusing on the actual gear and how it functions instead of worrying about creating new camo patterns for one. Lightweight and ability to handle sweat such as Merino is definitely an important quality especially for backcountry hunters who dont change clothes daily I think.

I have known Kenton since 1997 when we were both ski bums. He was into quality gear back then, as was I. Today, I wear a fair bit of FL gear (mostly merino, but have some jackets given to me for testing and have some Unc puffy stuff too). I live in the mountains of B.C., and while I’m not reckless with my gear, I’m not easy on it either. I’ve had no durability issues at all.

When it comes to pants, and rain gear, I stick to mountaineering brands like ArcTeryx (my kids wife works for them, so I get lots of their stuff). The problem with the mountain goretex stuff like my Alpha SV, is it is far from quiet. You can hear the rain bounce off it, and it is krinkly. I don’t use it much.

In a perfect world, there would be great fitting, great performing gear at a reasonable price. Unfortunately that is just not realistic. If there were a way to do it all and keep it affordable, someone would be doing it. None of the premium brands have ever been “inexpensive”. Most are now “crazy” in my eyes.