The New Leupold Mark 4HD?

[bmart2622]

Might not make the gun shoot better but it could make you shoot the gun better

 

[JGRaider]

Negative.

 

[bmart2622]

Oh, youve tried that?

 

[JGRaider]

Sure have...Micky and B&C.

 

[wind gypsy]

Sure have...Micky and B&C.

Depending on which models, i totally understand. I've spent a few grand on aftermarket stocks that aren't any better than a factory tikka stock as well, most of them worse. All of them were somewhat "traditional" sporter stocks.

 

[fwafwow]

Depending on which models, i totally understand. I've spent a few grand on aftermarket stocks that aren't any better than a factory tikka stock as well, most of them worse. All of them were somewhat "traditional" sporter stocks.

Yeah, but all of the cool kids are getting one.

 

[freddyG]

Come on dude. If I could hit pause and check zero on my rifle before shooting a game animal I would;

Now this is a post of a man that’s confident in his equipment!

 

[freddyG]

I find it very amusing that the best shooters, who own the best Leupolds, will not agree to simple tests that will net them cash, if it’s true what they claim.

When the excuses come out, it’s pretty easy to see who is full of Bovine scat.

 

[gerry35]

I find it very amusing that the best shooters, who own the best Leupolds, will not agree to simple tests that will net them cash, if it’s true what they claim.

When the excuses come out, it’s pretty easy to see who is full of Bovine scat.

What's amazing to me is that people care so much about what kind of scopes people use that it comes close to borderline harassment. I already mentioned that I don't have any Leupold scopes anymore because of the ones I had had wandering zero. At the same time I'm sure there are some individual scopes and mounting systems that do hold zero well. I do hope that Leupold finally addresses their issues so that they are more reliable.

 

[UpSideDown]

Now this is a post of a man that’s confident in his equipment!

Don’t confuse prudence with a lack of confidence. It is arrogance to forego a free opportunity to confirm zero with such a high investment, low frequency opportunity as the taking of an animal.

 

[UpSideDown]

I find it very amusing that the best shooters, who own the best Leupolds, will not agree to simple tests that will net them cash, if it’s true what they claim.

When the excuses come out, it’s pretty easy to see who is full of Bovine scat.

Is there a cash pot for the tests? How would it net them money? I’ve heard an offer of a free plane ticket, is there more?

 

[freddyG]

Is there a cash pot for the tests? How would it net them money? I’ve heard an offer of a free plane ticket, is there more?

There has been multiple offers for free scopes, trips, cash, as long as a Leupy passes the drop test. Nothing but chirping insects from the Leupold cheerleaders.

 

[UpSideDown]

There has been multiple offers for free scopes, trips, cash, as long as a Leupy passes the drop test. Nothing but chirping insects from the Leupold cheerleaders.

I doubt that the cost:benefit ratio of those offers makes sense. So it goes like, what… that a guy would get a plane ticket paid for to take 4 days off work, pay for their own hotel and transportation to meet strangers who there is a standing disagreement with, to give them their $1,800 scope to beat the crap out of it, just so that other people can harangue the results?

So the guy with the scope ends up being out $800-5,000 in hotel, car and opportunity cost from work/family time and comes home with a bashed up scope, having gained nothing in return but a test that they can do at home?

I don’t think some small cash prize and a plane ticket is going to offset that. It sounds like the perfect marketing tool. It’ll never be used.

 

[fwafwow]

I doubt that the cost:benefit ratio of those offers makes sense. So it goes like, what… that a guy would get a plane ticket paid for to take 4 days off work, pay for their own hotel and transportation to meet strangers who there is a standing disagreement with, to give them their $1,800 scope to beat the crap out of it, just so that other people can harangue the results?

So the guy with the scope ends up being out $800-5,000 in hotel, car and opportunity cost from work/family time and comes home with a bashed up scope, having gained nothing in return but a test that they can do at home?

I don’t think some small cash prize and a plane ticket is going to offset that. It sounds like the perfect marketing tool. It’ll never be used.

From some of the above (bolded) language, it makes me wonder if you have read the tests.

I also think that there have been offers with more upside - like if the scope passes the test, the owner will get another, or something else. (Recently including cold, hard cash). I've lost track, so please forgive me. And if there needs to be more to sweeten the pot, what would make it worthwhile? I also imagine that the days off and other out-of-pockets will vary based on logistics and geography, but those can be managed.

I think that some of the reason for the above or similar offers is that there are plenty who want to take the time to participate in these various threads and say "these tests are bogus" or "my scope must be the only one of X brand that doesn't fail, huh?" When the simpler offer of "send us your scope" is made, the inevitable response is "I'm not sending in my trusty scope to some nameless/faceless internet stranger!" So then the offer is made, "Ok - come meet us somewhere and participate in the test." Then there are various reasons to push back. Some of which I get.

As for those who won't send in or do a meet, would you consider having your buddy video you doing the test that you mention above can be done at home?

One solution - if you don't believe in the tests, maybe just scroll by the threads and posts that mention the tests. Otherwise people will continue to offer ways to make someone believe.

 

[2-Stix]

I had Savages, Vortex, and Leupolds and when I switched to Tikka and NF the issues I had went away. It was always some issue before. I wouldn't call me a fanboy, but through trial and error and experience it proved true that I belive in them.

2 savages had fit-and-finish issues. Back to back. Screws on the action for the scope drilled not parallel to the barrel and so I ran out of windage. The second one the bolt dragged across the magazine...after months of chasing my tail, range visits and $$$ on ammo then I had to pay for shipping back, new rifle so a transfer, and DROS again. At least $1,500 and time and frustration over the 2.

Leupold VX3 lost zero and I almost missed a buck this year. POI dropped 2" so my shot at 225 was 5" low and not where I amided and almost went under the blacktail. Then my VX5 was sent back also and needed a new erector and got replaced.

Tikkas have been soild, and now I am on all NF scopes. My rifle system is very very solid and proofed out.

Build a solid system. Rifle, bedded, free float the barrel, degrease rings, use good rings and torque to spec, use a solid scope that passes a drop test, run 20 shots group at 200 yards. I can now check all those boxes and have a 1.25"-1.5" MOA rifle systems that doesn't lose zero. It is cheaper to get good gear the first time. Then if you really want to get nuts go and get in the smaller caliber game and match ammo that works better than monos...lol. (super fan boy teritory!!!!!)

I western hunt. If you hunt under 100-150 yards the issues wont show up or really matter as much. Start ladder testing your system from 100 out to 600 and back down. Issues can show. I drive lots of dirt roads, hunt from the truck, quads and on foot in tough country, slip and fall, etc...and all my past rifles showed failures. It doesn't happen anymore with my Tikka and NF combo. I learned the hardway.

I won't risk the investment of time, money, fitness, e-scouting, travel, tags and being away from family for weeks a t a time on a rifle system that doesn't work.

 

[freddyG]

I doubt that the cost:benefit ratio of those offers makes sense. So it goes like, what… that a guy would get a plane ticket paid for to take 4 days off work, pay for their own hotel and transportation to meet strangers who there is a standing disagreement with, to give them their $1,800 scope to beat the crap out of it, just so that other people can harangue the results?

So the guy with the scope ends up being out $800-5,000 in hotel, car and opportunity cost from work/family time and comes home with a bashed up scope, having gained nothing in return but a test that they can do at home?

I don’t think some small cash prize and a plane ticket is going to offset that. It sounds like the perfect marketing tool. It’ll never be used.

If you are going to argue about something, it would be wise to actually know what you are arguing about. Being too lazy to read what these offers were/are is pretty sad.

 

[freddyG]

Don’t confuse prudence with a lack of confidence. It is arrogance to forego a free opportunity to confirm zero with such a high investment, low frequency opportunity as the taking of an animal.

It is arrogance to use faulty equipment, especially when stuff that works is being spoon fed to you.

I can guarantee you most people here including myself, have suffered scopes that lose zero. Being stubborn doesn’t do anyone any favors. I have 100% confidence in the equipment I use now, and unless I’m changing ammunition lots, wouldn’t even think of checking zero. Those days are long gone.

 

[freddyG]

But I western hunt. If you hunt under 100-150 yards the issues wont show up or really matter.

I think this is where most of the disconnect lies. I also live/hunt out west, where everything is mostly wide open. For the last 10 years or so, OTC hunts have rarely provided shots under 250 yards. When one starts practicing shooting at longer ranges, scope limitations rear their ugly head.

 

[MidGAHunter]

But I western hunt. If you hunt under 100-150 yards the issues wont show up or really matter.

Not even remotely true. Plenty of scopes fail bad enough to cause a miss or an awful shot inside those ranges. I speak from experience. It is that experience that led me to some of the information that @Formidilosus and others have posted. I've had multiple Zeiss, Leupold, and Swarovski scopes fail miserably on me. A few of them led to terrible shots inside of 150 yards due to wandering zero and loss of zero. I beat myself up (and at times my head against the wall) as to why I could make such a bad shot. I began investigating and it led me to this site. Through trial and error and testing I realized it actually wasn't me, it was my equipment. I began going through my entire rifle system(s). Once I made the switch to certain scopes (that coincidentally do pass the drop tests) my problems went away. Period. Other people can use what they want, I really don't care. But there is a direct correlation between scopes that pass the drop test and scopes that hold up to even mild field use. Why there is such emotional attachment to an inanimate object I'll never understand. Most scope brands lose zero when the rifle is tipped over from being propped against a tree or tailgate (seen this many times as well). Hunters and shooters should demand better.

As to the new Mark 4HD...I REALLY hope this one actually works (I won't hold my breath based on past experiences). I have been wanting someone to build a 2-10 (or similar) FFP scope with updated ffeatures and a good hunting reticle at a reasonable weight and price point, and this scope did that. I'm seriously considering buying one to test out depending on what else gets released this year.

 

[Flyjunky]

I just went to Leupold's website to check these out. The housing for the guts on these things is substantially larger than on many of their other models.

Where are you seeing this?

Does anyone know if the internals are actually different than the MK5?