The New Leupold Mark 4HD?

[UpSideDown]

Why are their zeroing shifting? That’s the point- rifles don’t just magically lose zero sitting still. Also, apparently magically, when I check zero- my zeros don’t shift.







You mean like riding in a truck on a padded seat and multiple instances of zero shifts, normal? Hmmm. Also my likes there’s a correlation to between certain scopes that shift zero from truck rides, and certain scopes that lose zero going to a match.

I'm surprised you're making an argument like this. Zeroes aren't solely related to the mechanics of the rifle and optical system - when you deal with different atmospherics your internal and external ballistics change. If you go from a 15F day to a 86F day, you have a zero shift. Not by much, but if you're competing, and it's free to compensate for that change, why wouldn't you?

You are missing my points. The drop testing is a useful tool. Knowing if your rifle is likely to lose zero from fairly pedestrian use is beneficial. Expecting the drop testing findings to carry over as a near-unlimited expectation of durability or non-durability is a misuse of the findings.

 

[Duh]

He got himself kicked out of here I think, it’s kinda too bad that he’s always seeking reaction because he’s super knowledgeable when you cut through the BS. I don’t know him but I know he doesn’t live too far away. We SE Alaskans all get a little crazy, especially this time of year.

I might just move to Alaska and start shooting SWFA’s solely after that video. I don’t even know why we’re arguing about other scopes at this point after seeing that video. Screw variables and supposed “flawed tests,” that video was gold!

 

[9.3koolaid]

Ran the numbers in Strelok with 7mm-08 factory powerpoint. Zeroed @ sea level 17 F vs 12,000 ft at 85 F. Shift is 0.1 MOA, how are you adjusting your zero for that?

 

[fwafwow]

Ah yes your mythical VX6 that never loses zero is here again… You’ve been asked in multiple threads, multiple times, to put up or shut up and you never do.

Send me this exact scope. I’ll properly mount it and take it on just one single off road trip in the jeep and shoot it. I won’t drop it. If it still holds zero after the jeep trip/ full day of shooting, I’ll send you $500 for your troubles.

Easiest $500 you’ve ever made right? I’ll PM you my ship to address.

Thanks for starting a pass the hat type of approach. I’m in for $100.

 

[PathFinder]

Well they're not actually adjusting for that, but good luck getting them to admit it's actually the optic shifting

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Formidilosus]

I'm surprised you're making an argument like this. Zeroes aren't solely related to the mechanics of the rifle and optical system - when you deal with different atmospherics your internal and external ballistics change. If you go from a 15F day to a 86F day, you have a zero shift.

No.

 

[UpSideDown]

Ran the numbers in Strelok with 7mm-08 factory powerpoint. Zeroed @ sea level 17 F vs 12,000 ft at 85 F. Shift is 0.1 MOA, how are you adjusting your zero for that?

You have to account for the change in ammo temperature, not just density altitude - varying density altitude is also part of the equation when people travel for matches. Lots of variables. That's why people rezero before a match.

No.

Yes.

How Ammo Temp Affects Pressure, Velocity, and Point of Impact « Daily Bulletin

In this .308 Win test, 70° F ammo shot 96 FPS slower than ammo heated to 130.5° F. And the 130.5° ammo was 145 fps faster than ammo right out of the freezer (at 25.5° F). That's a huge difference...

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

 

[ljalberta]

You have to account for the change in ammo temperature, not just density altitude - varying density altitude is also part of the equation when people travel for matches. Lots of variables. That's why people rezero before a match.

Yes.

How Ammo Temp Affects Pressure, Velocity, and Point of Impact « Daily Bulletin

In this .308 Win test, 70° F ammo shot 96 FPS slower than ammo heated to 130.5° F. And the 130.5° ammo was 145 fps faster than ammo right out of the freezer (at 25.5° F). That's a huge difference...

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

View attachment 659395

Can we see the 100 yard zero on these.

Additionally, what PRS match is having such significant changes throughout the day to actually show as a measurable change of zero due to atmospherics. I would guess none as were not talking about a swing from minus 30* to 130* and elevation changes of 10000’ between stages. But I could be wrong.

 

[UpSideDown]

Can we see the 100 yard zero on these.

They didn't do a 100yd group in the article I posted above, but not all zeroes are 100yds. This is proof. Particularly, the highest velocity group also impacted the lowest - this means that the 100yd group would actually be displaced even more relative to its distance than the 200yd group is as the higher velocity group is going to experience less drop relative to a lower velocity group. The lower impact is due to the temperature effect on trajectory, and thus, zero.

 

[BBob]

He got himself kicked out of here I think, it’s kinda too bad that he’s always seeking reaction because he’s super knowledgeable when you cut through the BS. I don’t know him but I know he doesn’t live too far away. We SE Alaskans all get a little crazy, especially this time of year.

I think he's back under a different name and his posts (pretty limited I think) have been inline with what's tolerated here.

 

[DangerRanger]

I have yet to shoot a zero confirmation target before a match at 130*F but if that’s ever the temp at 7am I have to say I’m excited to add .2 mil and get ready for the absolute disaster of a day I’m about to have

 

[9.3koolaid]

I have yet to shoot a zero confirmation target before a match at 130*F but if that’s ever the temp at 7am I have to say I’m excited to add .2 mil and get ready for the absolute disaster of a day I’m about to have

Don't forget your stillsuit for the PRS match on Arrakis

 

[UpSideDown]

I have yet to shoot a zero confirmation target before a match at 130*F but if that’s ever the temp at 7am I have to say I’m excited to add .2 mil and get ready for the absolute disaster of a day I’m about to have

Ammo temp and ambient temp can be very different if your rifle is sitting in the sun.

 

[BBob]

Ah yes your mythical VX6 that never loses zero is here again…

So because it says Leupold it is a guaranteed 100% fail? I'm no fan of Leupold but I still have the only one (out of all that I've owned) that has ever held zero. It hunts, it rides in the truck, it bounces in the truck down washboard roads and has for a long time. I do not ever need to zero or re-zero this scope. I/we shoot it, that's it. The kids and newbies shoot it. They go to the sillywhet range and they learn to dial. They learn to shoot out to 500 meters. It works, I don't know why it keeps on ticking but it does. It's an anomaly but they do exist. FWIW It's a pretty old VARI-X III Tactical with a Premier Reticles Mil Dot and has never left the original rifle it was installed on. Pinned, glued, 8-40 screwed Badger rail and Badger rings. Been pretty solid

Oh and it's killed a bunch of Coues deer. I'll keep it till I die

 

[DangerRanger]

Ammo temp and ambient temp can be very different if your rifle is sitting in the sun.

Which mine rarely have been at the morning zero confirmation

Also I’ve done this with norma match, gained 80 fps and my zero did not change

If the argument is prs shooters are accounting for ammo temperatures above 120 degrees every morning before match starts on the zero line I’m having a hard time buying it.

Maybe so, maybe so.

 

[ljalberta]

They didn't do a 100yd group in the article I posted above, but not all zeroes are 100yds. This is proof. Particularly, the highest velocity group also impacted the lowest - this means that the 100yd group would actually be displaced even more relative to its distance than the 200yd group is as the higher velocity group is going to experience less drop relative to a lower velocity group. The lower impact is due to the temperature effect on trajectory, and thus, zero.

We’re talking about PRS shooters adjusting zero. How many PRS shooters aren’t using a 100 yard zero?

 

[JGRaider]

Come on now, think this through. If you have any faith in your gear holding up to riding around on a seat, you'd send it.

Collect your 500, use that towards purchasing a new Mk 4, and just post a picture of it any time these debates come up!

I'm in good shape gear wise, but thanks for your concern. Very happy where I'm at right now, and besides that I've got a couple more weeks to try and find a big mule deer and about 6 weeks to finish culling 25 whitetail does. I don't have time to screw around with internet drama queens.

 

[UpSideDown]

We’re talking about PRS shooters adjusting zero. How many PRS shooters aren’t using a 100 yard zero?

I'm not arguing that they aren't using a 100yd zero, I'm saying that the results stand regardless of the zero distance. The overarching argument is simply that:

1. Zeroes aren't permanent and unchanging things.
2. If you're given a free chance to check your zero before going on the board in a competition series that you're spending thousands, or tens of thousands, of dollars on each year, that it absolutely makes sense to do so.
3. Thinking that competition shoots have zero say in what scopes are worthwhile because they do #2 above is a ridiculous argument.

Edit to add: Even a very minute change in zero is worth dialing in before a competition - it's free, why wouldn't you? If you check zero on your hunting rifle with 2-3 shots and you're within .2mil, with what is really a statistically small group that isn't telling you exactingly where your zero is, is totally workable for a hunt with shots up to a pretty good distance. But saying that the ballistics of your cartridge don't change when cartridge temperature and density altitude do, is wrong.

 

[gbflyer]

I think he's back under a different name and his posts (pretty limited I think) have been inline with what's tolerated here.

I hope so. He shoots a lot and is quite knowledgeable when you get the hint…. Haha

 

[atmat]

I don't have time to screw around with internet drama queens.

My dude. You are the internet drama queen. You talk on this nonsense, people ask for proof — even offer to pay for proof — and you back out

Often?

Yes.

1. Zeroes aren't permanent and unchanging things.

At 100 yards, the differences in environmental is too small to tease out with a click of the scope — which is what most of us are talking about. But you’re correct, if you zero your rifle at further ranges than environmentals do visibly begin to play out