The Most Overlooked Part of a Rifle Build

[XLR]

Dang that kind of hurts. I’ve been wringing out a pretty well built rifle with one of the Bushnell Elite LHRS2 in NF ultralights. I’m I ok sine my rings stayed under $200?

Personally, if it was me I would save 2k on the rifle and buy a good factory rifle then put that 2k into a better scope! The $200 rings are what you want to spend but then put that additional money to get an ATACR! You will be far better off going with a cheaper rifle than a cheaper scope!

I will guarantee a Bergara MG Lite with an ATACR will treat you better in the field than a custom with a cheap scope.

 

[PB&J]

Not a part of a build, but I always put a silver sharpie index mark on anything I torque to spec. That way I know if something starts to work loose.

 

[huntnful]

Alright, I am going to play devil's advocate because I agree but there are a few things to take into consideration too. What if the rail is not straight? Then should you lap the rings? Even if you bed the rail to the action, the top end could be out of alignment causing stress on the scope. Now is lapping then bedding the rings a good idea for any circumstance? I 100% agree with you on not lapping rings but I could see an argument there.

Personally what I did on my 700 was bought a good rail (still wasn't straight on the top) and bedded it to the rifle. The reason I bedded it was to give more surface contact to the action and allow a little more grab. When I bed bases, I will use Johnson's paste wax and put it on the action for a release agent. Then I put JB Weld on the base and go through the whole bedding process. I will spread it out and try to keep clear of the scope base holes. Once I put it on the action, I will slightly screw in the screws and torque them to 10-inch lbs. This lets most of the excess bedding compound come out but keeps what is necessary there. I will then go through and clean up what I can with Q Tips. After that, I will wait the full 24 hours for it to cure and then torque it all the way down. NOTE I do not take the rail off. You will have a little extra compound in a few hard-to-get spots, but what I have found is by not removing the rail, it creates a little bit of suction to the action and gives a little more grab which puts less torque on your scope base screws.
Now since I knew this rail wasn't 100% straight I was not going to mess with any two-piece rings. So I went with a SPUHR one-piece mount. This was all that misalignment would be taken up by the bottom of the rings and not the scope. They are pricey and heavy but when you buy a $3200 scope the last thing you want is any stress that causes harm. I am currently sitting at about 4000 rounds down the rifle. I am on my second barrel and still have not touched the scope base. I checked them the last time I took the scope off and nothing had moved so I have continued this process on all of my rifles. I am sure there are a million other ways to go but this has worked very well for me!

Machined integral actions with machined rings FTW

 

[JW@TRACT]

Not done a custom but the approach I’d take is…

1) Clearly define objective(s) for the rifle/ scope/ammo (entire setup). <Rarely mentioned by members on this site and elsewhere>
2) Identifying the requirements to meet the objective(s). <Rarely mentioned by members on this site and elsewhere>
3) Identify specific components to meet the requirements. <Site members rattle off their components but rarely map them back to the requirements>

But from what I’ve seen on this site and elsewhere, folks are mostly concerned about the individual components and just “settle” for the final package however it turns out. To me that approach is completely backwards. How can a person get exactly what they want if the person never states exactly what he/she wants to begin with?

thorough plan.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Couldn’t agree more. Big 300’s with 30oz scopes and a set of Ultralight Talleys

I put Talley's on everything and have yet to have an issue after degreasing and torquing with blue loctite, but I'm more of a 7mm with 24oz scope kinda guy.

So that would be my cringe factor, helping troubleshoot and getting a blank stare when you ask if screws, bolts, holes, etc. were properly degreased, and what torque values.

 

[huntnful]

I put Talley's on everything and have yet to have an issue after degreasing and torquing with blue loctite, but I'm more of a 7mm with 24oz scope kinda guy.

So that would be my cringe factor, helping troubleshoot and getting a blank stare when you ask if screws, bolts, holes, etc. were properly degreased, and what torque values.

I have used them before also. But after seeing 2 separate sets crack near the ring screws, and also having 2 screws break off in the action, with proper torque, you'll never see them on a rifle of mine again. Once you use precision, heavy duty, machined rings that are accompanied by screws you can torque over & over, you'll never look at a Talley Ultralight the same lol.

 

[Broz]

I have used them before also. But after seeing 2 separate sets crack near the ring screws, and also having 2 screws break off in the action, with proper torque, you'll never see them on a rifle of mine again. Once you use precision, heavy duty, machined rings that are accompanied by screws you can torque over & over, you'll never look at a Talley Ultralight the same lol.

We have seen so may of the Talley's fail. I for one will not use anything that says Talley on it any longer. I even seen one of their rails fail last week. If your accuracy goes to crap, and you have Talley mounts or rings, I suggest you look there first. They sure are not what they use to be. Sad really.

 

[Cahunter805]

I have used them before also. But after seeing 2 separate sets crack near the ring screws, and also having 2 screws break off in the action, with proper torque, you'll never see them on a rifle of mine again. Once you use precision, heavy duty, machined rings that are accompanied by screws you can torque over & over, you'll never look at a Talley Ultralight the same lol.

Hawkins Long range Hybrid rings blow Talleys away. Just wish they made them for a few more actions.

 

[huntnful]

We have seen so may of the Talley's fail. I for one will not use anything that says Talley on it any longer. I even seen one of their rails fail last week. If your accuracy goes to crap, and you have Talley mounts or rings, I suggest you look there first. They sure are not what they use to be. Sad really.

Couldn’t agree more

 

[jjjones7]

Personally, if it was me I would save 2k on the rifle and buy a good factory rifle then put that 2k into a better scope! The $200 rings are what you want to spend but then put that additional money to get an ATACR! You will be far better off going with a cheaper rifle than a cheaper scope!

I will guarantee a Bergara MG Lite with an ATACR will treat you better in the field than a custom with a cheap scope.

I build my own rifles so I am not going to a factory rifle anytime soon. I spend a decent amount of time behind 2K plus glass and most of which I don’t fit MY needs for a hunting scope. I’ve never had a scope track any better or RTZ any better than that Bushnell Elite LRHS2. It and the SHV’s are about all I’ve found reliable around that price range. Glass wise the LRHS 2 isn’t an ATACR but it not so far behind as you may think. To my eyes it’s better than NXS and on par with a MK5 (the 3.6-18 version) The only ATACR that I’d personally consider on a hunting rifle for me would be the 4-16. My self imposed weight limit for me on a hunting scope is 30 oz. Which it just barely makes. I honestly prefer my MK 5 3.6-18 withe thr PR1 reticle to the 4-16 ATACR in every category other than glass where the difference is less than what most think or are led to believe.
Ok the ATACR does look better also.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

Not done a custom but the approach I’d take is…

1) Clearly define objective(s) for the rifle/ scope/ammo (entire setup). <Rarely mentioned by members on this site and elsewhere>
2) Identifying the requirements to meet the objective(s). <Rarely mentioned by members on this site and elsewhere>
3) Identify specific components to meet the requirements. <Site members rattle off their components but rarely map them back to the requirements>

But from what I’ve seen on this site and elsewhere, folks are mostly concerned about the individual components and just “settle” for the final package however it turns out. To me that approach is completely backwards. How can a person get exactly what they want if the person never states exactly what he/she wants to begin with?

could not agree more with this

and furthermore, only go 'custom' if you cannot find what fits your list it in factory form, it's a brutal inefficient time and money sink to go custom and you never get back on the resale end of things...

 

[Stinky Coyote]

We have seen so may of the Talley's fail. I for one will not use anything that says Talley on it any longer. I even seen one of their rails fail last week. If your accuracy goes to crap, and you have Talley mounts or rings, I suggest you look there first. They sure are not what they use to be. Sad really.

how do they fail? I've use them on my hunting rigs for a long time and never had an issue with them

 

[Broz]

how do they fail? I've use them on my hunting rigs for a long time and never had an issue with them

On the rails the aluminum is too thin under the screws and it bends (sucks down) allowing the rail to come loose. Then, if retorqued it will fail again very soon as all you are doing is tightening one small spot of the rail under the screws and the rest of the rail has no clamping force.

 

[wind gypsy]

I build my own rifles so I am not going to a factory rifle anytime soon. I spend a decent amount of time behind 2K plus glass and most of which I don’t fit MY needs for a hunting scope. I’ve never had a scope track any better or RTZ any better than that Bushnell Elite LRHS2. It and the SHV’s are about all I’ve found reliable around that price range. Glass wise the LRHS 2 isn’t an ATACR but it not so far behind as you may think. To my eyes it’s better than NXS and on par with a MK5 (the 3.6-18 version) The only ATACR that I’d personally consider on a hunting rifle for me would be the 4-16. My self imposed weight limit for me on a hunting scope is 30 oz. Which it just barely makes. I honestly prefer my MK 5 3.6-18 withe thr PR1 reticle to the 4-16 ATACR in every category other than glass where the difference is less than what most think or are led to believe.
Ok the ATACR does look better also.

I'm with ya on that one.

My first (of a bunch) LRHS replaced a $3k scope and was a better aiming device for hunting. A Bergara MG lite is probably a nice gun but I'd still pocket the $ for something else then.

 

[Team4LongGun]

We have seen so may of the Talley's fail. I for one will not use anything that says Talley on it any longer. I even seen one of their rails fail last week. If your accuracy goes to crap, and you have Talley mounts or rings, I suggest you look there first. They sure are not what they use to be. Sad really.

Nor will I use Talley.

Funny, I said this awhile back, and its like I took out an ad on rokslide calling every Tikka/Talley owner a limp wristed fruitcake with an ugly dog and even uglier kid.

 

[Lawnboi]

Taking the words from someone else but guys spend a lot of time picking out the hardware and don’t spend nearly enough time on the software.

 

[Wrench]

I always start by asking the important questions.

How much do you want to spend?

How much do you want it to weigh?

What do you want to top it with?

What stock?

Where do you want it to balance?

Sometimes the answers are so impossible to achieve that it becomes the beginning and end of the conversation.

I strive for realistic accuracy of .7ish under all conditions of use. I can build a rifle that shoots in the .1's or 2's....but it's heavy and delicate.

A gun that can ride in the truck, horse, atv and with my brother's fricken kids and still meet the accuracy expectations are my goals.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

On the rails the aluminum is too thin under the screws and it bends (sucks down) allowing the rail to come loose. Then, if retorqued it will fail again very soon as all you are doing is tightening one small spot of the rail under the screws and the rest of the rail has no clamping force.

well if we see one lose it's shat will look for this, so thanks, I've always snugged them down pretty stoutly with a little blue loctite and never an issue, by feel, likely on the verge of stripping or breaking things as per my normal feel

I also lap the bottom halves once they are snugged down.

 

[workingonit]

Couldn’t agree more. Big 300’s with 30oz scopes and a set of Ultralight Talleys

this brings up a question for me. say you have a big 300 with a 30oz scope used for hunting, what rings would you use? hawkins ultralight tactical?

 

[huntnful]

this brings up a question for me. say you have a big 300 with a 30oz scope used for hunting, what rings would you use? hawkins ultralight tactical?

If going straight to the taped holes in the action, yeah, probably Hawkins. But I much prefer a rail installed and then even beefier rings, like the seekins machined rings.