The Most Overlooked Part of a Rifle Build

[Harvey_NW]

I would make the switch to those Hawkins hybrids if they made some zero cant models. For the life of me I don’t understand why they don’t. Not all of us need to shoot 1000 yards with a 308.

100%.

 

[SDHNTR]

Like how we want more detail on how Tract scopes are tested for impact?

100%.

I've discussed this with Hawkins and they simply don't see the need, even though he admitted he gets asked about a zero cant option all the time. Which is silly to me. If people ask you all the time for something, maybe you out to consider providing it! Their take is the 25 moa cant will still work even when not needed. I disagreed but it obviously fell on deaf ears. Maybe they just need to hear it from more people. Please let them know your thoughts.

 

[Antares]

Their take is the 25 moa cant will still work even when not needed. I disagreed but it obviously fell on deaf ears. Maybe they just need to hear it from more people. Please let them know your thoughts.

I'm curious, what's the problem with using canted scope mounts when you don't need the extra elevation? You'd prefer to be zeroed closer to the optical center or something?

 

[SDHNTR]

I'm curious, what's the problem with using canted scope mounts when you don't need the extra elevation? You'd prefer to be zeroed closer to the optical center or something?

Yes, that’s pretty much it. On a traditional hunting rifle, there is no need for long range capability. The 25 moa only puts the back end of the scope higher than needed. Many stocks on guns of this sort are straight combed, so harder to get a good cheek weld. Plus the aesthetics. I don’t want what’s not necessary.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

There's no hate here. Dave is a great guy who built what we wanted. Materials cheapened up a bit and with volume comes some chaff.

At one point I had probably 20 plus sets on my personal rifles and was sending them out on customers rigs.....but after a few give up....it's hard to suggest the product, especially when Hawkins has almost the perfect ring to replace it. Ask me to bash a Swarovski scope and you'll see my real feelings. At least Dave makes it right.

This is a nichey group of consumers who'll spend $800 on a backpack and 6g's on a rifle. No product is going to survive in mediocrity here.

interesting, wasn't sure there was an angle here on the talley thing but your reply shows my sniffer was correct. Rokslide, the kifaru, swaro/meopta/maven? hawkins forum lol. Anyhow, I have no issues reading through the lines and getting the gear for me even with this nonsense. I have no issues with people promoting their sponsors and gear...but it's bad for business when you bash others in the process, it's transparent, you give away much needed power that way. First time I've said anything but just in case anyone was curious at the forum?...this phenomenon is most noticeable on this forum over all others I've played on...just saying, maybe reign it in a little bit. I'm sure if I spent more time here I could point out a few other examples of this brand bashing and promoting but bashing while promoting is bad moves, red flags.

p.s. I'll happily jump on the Swaro bashing train haha, I'm not a fan of that overpriced gear, it's ok gear priced like it's poo doesn't smell, should be priced more like Leupold lol, I've compared it to others lots, I digress.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I'm curious, what's the problem with using canted scope mounts when you don't need the extra elevation?

More elevated cheek weld.

 

[SDHNTR]

Like how we want more detail on how Tract scopes are tested for impact?

Those crickets are fired up again!

 

[DakotaBPNW]

Personally, if it was me I would save 2k on the rifle and buy a good factory rifle then put that 2k into a better scope! The $200 rings are what you want to spend but then put that additional money to get an ATACR! You will be far better off going with a cheaper rifle than a cheaper scope!

I will guarantee a Bergara MG Lite with an ATACR will treat you better in the field than a custom with a cheap scope.

Are you implying that the ATACR is far and above a better scope than the LRHS2?

 

[ReedB]

I personally put a new lighter weight pull trigger in all my rifles, especially the ones I'm setting up for long range.

I agree. I put a new trigger on any new gun

 

[ReedB]

View attachment 401819
View attachment 401820
Call it what you want, but to me, this is “junk” lol.

Painful

 

[Seeknelk]

interesting, wasn't sure there was an angle here on the talley thing but your reply shows my sniffer was correct. Rokslide, the kifaru, swaro/meopta/maven? hawkins forum lol. Anyhow, I have no issues reading through the lines and getting the gear for me even with this nonsense. I have no issues with people promoting their sponsors and gear...but it's bad for business when you bash others in the process, it's transparent, you give away much needed power that way. First time I've said anything but just in case anyone was curious at the forum?...this phenomenon is most noticeable on this forum over all others I've played on...just saying, maybe reign it in a little bit. I'm sure if I spent more time here I could point out a few other examples of this brand bashing and promoting but bashing while promoting is bad moves, red flags.

p.s. I'll happily jump on the Swaro bashing train haha, I'm not a fan of that overpriced gear, it's ok gear priced like it's poo doesn't smell, should be priced more like Leupold lol, I've compared it to others lots, I digress.

Strange take. If shit fails ,it just gets called out here. Sure, a LOT of people that don't use stuff enough to probably ever have a problem ,get REALLY hung up on the tiny chance a thing will fail or has failed.
But I don't blame them and I love the fact that we aren't just blindly buying what the kid or old crabby fart behind the gun counter tells us is good.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

It's not a strange take, anyone who's been here awhile, and especially from long ago when it was kifaru central...can see through this. I just have no problem speaking my mind, you wouldn't hear a peep on this from me typically but when the bashing to promote gets too thick well I guess I couldn't hold my tongue. It's bad form, don't do that. Sell your shit responsibly and ethically, you'll get further with it. I have zero interests and have always refused to play the business games in these hobbies I love, takes away from it, I'd make a lousy brand rep unless it was one of the best lol. I will always use and research and migrate to what works. Watching anyone bash to promote and then watch others jump on a bash bandwagon of some top players that made the game is sad and desperate imo. It's ugly. It's not my forum, do as ya like with it but don't think it isn't seen, I'm a guest as long as they'll have me but don't kid yourself that this phenom isn't transparent on this forum and has been from day 1. Build your game better imo, we play at elite levels, do business like that too. Some of the things being bashed just absurd, couldn't be any more obvious imo.

 

[SDHNTR]

Strange take. If shit fails ,it just gets called out here. Sure, a LOT of people that don't use stuff enough to probably ever have a problem ,get REALLY hung up on the tiny chance a thing will fail or has failed.
But I don't blame them and I love the fact that we aren't just blindly buying what the kid or old crabby fart behind the gun counter tells us is good.

FWIW, I thought it was a strange take too. I've been around here a while and I don't see "bashing to promote" at all. I see bashing when stuff deserves a bashing. And opposingly, touting when stuff deserves touting.

Also funny you mention Swaro, Maven and Meopta as if those are some kind of site darlings. Quite the contrary actually, as those three have all had a thorough and well deserved bashing in the scope test forums recently.

 

[Wrench]

If you took anything from me other than Swarovski's piss poor scope repair turn times or the record holder for quickest scope to ever fall apart on me....then you miss understood.

Dave and Andy both make fantastic products if you apply them properly. I wouldn't run talley lightweights on a hard kicking gun and I wouldn't take them out of state. I would take his steel split rings anywhere though.

And to the question about the canted Hawkins, a zero moa would also allow the rings to be installed in any direction which might clear a scope bell or adjustments.

 

[Wrench]

.... and if I'm gonna catch hell for bashing Swaro, I feel like I earned the right after getting less than 40 rounds through the scope and then sending it on an 8 month vacation to Rhode Island.

 

[SDHNTR]

.... and if I'm gonna catch hell for bashing Swaro, I feel like I earned the right after getting less than 40 rounds through the scope and then sending it on an 8 month vacation to Rhode Island.

I had a $2200 Z6 shed an entire turret. The thing snapped clean off with the scope tube. The entire turret assembly is made of plastic. Flimsy plastic. Adios…

 

[SDHNTR]

And I still want to know how Tract scopes are tested for impact and zero retention.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

And I still want to know how Tract scopes are tested for impact and zero retention.

They are not tested in that regard that's why they have not and will not answer that question. They'll circle back to it.

 

[SDHNTR]

They are not tested in that regard that's why they have not and will not answer that question. They'll circle back to it.

And you know that for certain how? They have had multiple opportunities to "circle back" on the subject and haven't. They dodge the question even though it's been asked multiple times in multiple ways. IMO they are doing more harm to their reputation by ignoring us than they ever could by simply addressing the question. Being evasive is even worse than answering the question, even if it's not the answer we want to hear.

Tract prides themselves, supposedly, as a company who listens and strives for continuous improvement. Their guys have said as much here and other places multiple times. But then they go silent every time zero retention testing comes up. Walk the talk Tract! We want to support you. We want you to be successful. The market needs manufacturers who listen. Give us what we demand and we'll buy your scopes. Continue to be evasive and we won't. It's that simple.

Show me rigorous impact testing and how your scopes retain zero. My very next click will be to buy one.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

And you know that for certain how? They have had multiple opportunities to "circle back" on the subject and haven't. They dodge the question even though it's been asked multiple times in multiple ways. IMO they are doing more harm to their reputation by ignoring us than they ever could by simply addressing the question. Being evasive is even worse than answering the question, even if it's not the answer we want to hear.

Tract prides themselves, supposedly, as a company who listens and strives for continuous improvement. Their guys have said as much here and other places multiple times. But then they go silent every time zero retention testing comes up. Walk the talk Tract! We want to support you. We want you to be successful. The market needs manufacturers who listen. Give us what we demand and we'll buy your scopes. Continue to be evasive and we won't. It's that simple.

Show me rigorous impact testing and how your scopes retain zero. My very next click will be to buy one.

I was more or less being facetious. I do not know what they test or do not test. If they did anything worthwhile in the testing department they would have answered the question by now. Nightforce prides itself on their tests and gladly show their tests.

The "circle back to it" conment was in regards to our current administration and how they avoid answering questions. It is Psaki's favorite phrase.