The future of Lead

[roadrunner]

How's the raptor population in North America
Rapidly declining due to lead OR
Steadily increasing despite the use of lead and prevalence of windmills, solar farms, rodenticide etc.

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Wind turbines by far kill more.

 

[TheTone]

Maybe there is and I’m unaware of it but why don’t we have any bullets with bismuth, hevi shot or another lead replacement in them for a core?

 

[Pacific_Fork]

If I were king of the world I would allow lead bullets to continue to fly as long as real science supported use. With that said the Barnes LRX is a killing machine until you drop below around 1800 FPS, which a lot of modern cartridges these days are still getting at 800 yards. So there’s no need to worry as far as killing big game anytime soon…

 

[displacedtexan]

Wind turbines by far kill more.

Do you have a source for this?

 

[ozyclint]

Depleted uranium is where it's at.

 

[Rich M]

So if the option is cup and core or not hunt at all, you’re hanging it up? That makes sense.

Im almost old. 45th season this year.

I have no desire to change. Yeah, reduces the possibilities. That’s okay, i was hunting before many of these guys were born and don’t like crowds anyway. Its always crowded these days…

I have tried mono bullets but they didnt shoot as well.

Hope you have a great season.

Maybe there is and I’m unaware of it but why don’t we have any bullets with bismuth, hevi shot or another lead replacement in them for a core?

They do it for buckshot. Could be be something about how maleable it is or the hardness and rifling on a barrel or ???

 

[ODB]

Maybe there is and I’m unaware of it but why don’t we have any bullets with bismuth, hevi shot or another lead replacement in them for a core?

A very good question. Part of the issue with older cartridges and mono bullets is the length of the bullet. I can get 2500 fps with a lead bullet in my. 9.3 but no where near it with a TSX. The 7x57 also suffers the same fate.

I’m going to ask that question of some folks and see what they say…

 

[TheTone]

Speer used to make African solids with a chunk of carbide machined into the back of the bullet. The carbide was harder than lead but also really dense resulting in a much shorter bullet than most solids. Obviously the hardness would make it a poor thing to put into a bullet you want to expand

 

[CoStick]

Things typically don’t progress or change until there is a need. Could be some great progress with lead free if the need grows.

 

[roadrunner]

Do you have a source for this?

yep

 

[ODB]

Speer used to make African solids with a chunk of carbide machined into the back of the bullet. The carbide was harder than lead but also really dense resulting in a much shorter bullet than most solids. Obviously the hardness would make it a poor thing to put into a bullet you want to expand

Guys I know had situations where the tungsten core out-penetrated the jacket on impact. Probably still circling the earth.

 

[Pro953]

From a hunting standpoint, I will not skip a beat. No matter the cost ammo is a tiny amount of annual hunting spend, even with significant Los development and range time.

My concern if lead prices skyrocketed, it will significantly impact the recreational shooting and competition shooting market. That group
shoots 100x what most of us shoot annually.

Not only would a decline in that group be unfortunate, also note that so much of the Pittman-Robertson dollars come from firearm and ammo sales to the recreational shooting market.

Just because the ammo price will not impact our hunting budget, it may significantly impact wildlife management funds over a period of time.


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[jayhawk]

Something they touched on in that podcast was that the biggest source of lead pollution via ammunition is from recreational shooters. A lead ban would impact them greatly I believe. Hunters are very minimal in their lead impact on the environment.

Also mentioned was that switching to copper would increase the demand for that metal and therefore the big mines that produce it. I.e. the Pebble Mine in Alaska that all the outdoors people protested against. For me, it's a "pick your poison" argument. You're really not solving any problems by issuing a complete lead ban. You're just moving kicking the can onto another road.

 

[Bubblehide]

I think the real question is what is the future of copper bullets?

 

[StrYker33]

Already started load development for pure copper in all the boom sticks.

 

[chocolab]

Maybe there is and I’m unaware of it but why don’t we have any bullets with bismuth, hevi shot or another lead replacement in them for a core?

it's a good question. bismuth, tungsten, hevi-shot alloys are denser than lead. copper is a bit less dense than lead. I'm not ballistics person/expert but perhaps the denser than lead alloys would be too heavy for the desired ballistics compared to copper or regular lead. Again just not sure but suspect the ballistics are suboptimal, particularly for longer range shooting. I have no idea but also wonder about how "hard" those alloys are and if that is again suboptimal for performance on big game.

 

[displacedtexan]

yep

Thank you, that's very interesting and informative.

 

[amassi]

Penetration is far better (I am not talking long range), making them superior in that regard. That is why they love mono's for large game in Africa.

They love solids in Africa for their ability to break movers down into less agile less threatening movers. Moot for the discussion of killing game in the states

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[amassi]

Weight retention

Not a meaningful measure of killing ability though Is it? Many fmj bullets enjoy 100% weight retention yet they make poor killers.

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[amassi]

Wind turbines by far kill more.

Exactly and despite their growing abundance the population of raptors increases

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