The future of BC Sheep

tater

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Dec 9, 2012
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Had a birthday last week, and acknowledging i have more seasons in the mountain behind me than ahead has had me in a reflective mood.

I know a lot of the folks in this section of the forum are non-resident hunters hoping to chase sheep in BC (or elsewhere in western Canada) so i'll share some of my predictions moving forward but bear in mind this a BC focused view.

Sheep hunting will not look anything like it has in the past by 2030 (for both resident and non-resident hunters). The combination of Truth and Reconciliation measures with First Nations, the blunders of wildlife managers and the loss of social license due to urban voting will see sheep hunting diminished to the point of extinction.

I will provide some context here, so bear with me.

As First Nations are given more authority over land usage (especially in Northern Areas), access to both resident and non-resident hunters will be choked off (see the Tsilhqot'in Ruling on land use/hunting rights as an example). To the East, we see First Nations now allowed to hunt Bighorns inside of a National Park in Alberta as part of this process.

Wildlife Managers have not done effective monitoring or predator control in the province for over thirty years. Tag allocations and seasons are not predicated on science and effective management of resources. As an example we have seen Bighorn Sheep units in Region 4 moved to an LEH model in a reactive manner not based on good science.

The fixation on sheep and sheep hunting as a "trophy endeavour" has diminished the ability to defend it to the 80% of the public of BC that are non-hunters that vote and are swayed by rational arguments. When i engaged with my local Member of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) last year to discuss the growing threat to sheep, goat and cougar hunting he was very clear that he and many others did not view these pursuits as "hunting for food" and as such the government had no social license from its constituents to support it. This is a rural MLA with a Phd. in ecology. The majority of BC residents (urban and rural) support hunting when it is ethical, is sustainable and is seen as providing food.

I know that there are a few folks that say "screw 'em, i don't care what a bunch of city folks think" but as we saw with the grizzly bear hunt, the voting public guides policy. And before this becomes a "left wing/right wing" discussion, folks of all political stripes have the capacity to be enemies or allies.

When hunters become fixated on "ram size and age class" with no sound science to back up why these animals are pursued other than they are "the biggest and oldest" that social license will be lost. When non-resident hunters are perceived to come up and spend $60-80K just to shoot a ram of a certain age/horn class it is solely regarding as trophy hunting at that point.

The fine line that is necessary to be walked is unsustainable from a public perception standpoint as such some are likely to lose access to sheep hunting. Let's be honest: social media doesn't help.

So, in summary Guide outfitter tenures will be returned to First Nations control, and they are unlikely to allow non-resident hunting. Resident hunters will see a very small LEH allocations annually in very limited areas.
Sheep hunting as we have known it and enjoyed it will be forever changed.
 

wyosteve

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Sadly I think you're correct. Not just in BC, but society in general is moving away from the 'hunting is conservation/sustenance' mindset.
 
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Better go sooner than later. The only thing politicians listen to more than constituents is money. That may be the only thing that will allow limited NR hunting, $$ for the govt.
 

NRA4LIFE

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Spot on. You could easily substitute "WA" for "BC" in your post. Except it's not only sheep, it's every game animal.
 
OP
T

tater

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Better go sooner than later. The only thing politicians listen to more than constituents is money. That may be the only thing that will allow limited NR hunting, $$ for the govt.
Won't be a government decision: It will be in the hands of First Nations wildlife managers in most areas and if you think they care about getting $80K for a sheep, well they don't.
And the small dollars generated by NR sheep hunters for government coffers is inconsequential. When you look at what stumpage fees for logging and extraction royalties for mining bring in NR hunting fees are not even worth mentioning.
 

Bighorn80

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Nov 25, 2020
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I agree, unfortunately the mindset has shifted away from hunting being something we sustain our families with not only food, but traditions and experiences we want to keep alive in our families.

Regarding combating the sheep hunting is purely trophy hunting... thats a tough one with the amount of money it costs today to go on a guided sheep hunt, however it isnt any different than a guided brown bear hunt... not going to eat those.
I would encourage everyone interested in wild sheep to read Wayne Heimers book "Dall sheep management in Alaska", the sheep management and biology information is accurate and applicable to sheep in Canada not just Alaska where the studies were done. Of course most people would like to harvest the oldest, largest ram they can find, but that does not necessarily qualify it as a trophy hunt only. The reasons for harvesting the large, old rams have solid scientific and biological backing to ensure the health and future of the sheep population.
Sheep hunting has always been an uphill battle, but I still believe we can make a difference to ensure our kids and grandkids get to experience it. I know I want mine to.
 

Bambistew

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It will get there across NA, but likely start in BC. The circle jerk happening in Reno right now is just flames to the fire. Selling wildlife to the highest bidder and pretending that its making a difference or supporting the NA wildlife model is a joke. Sheep (and other trophy animals) are sold like a commodity. Pretty hard to change that perception , when the W$F pats themselves on the back for selling public wildlife. I'm to the point I don't even care anymore. The average guy has no chance in hunting sheep, say what you want, but without building advocates you don't have much support. Hard to build advocates when your chance of hunting the animal is zero, or costs half a years salary or more to go on a camping trip that cost a fraction of that.

If you think hunting will be around in 50-100 years for anyone other than indigenous, on public lands, or it will be a private land preserve type hunt only. We have no one to blame but ourselves.
 

bushguy

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Apr 21, 2015
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BC
Ditto tater.
The "times they are a changin" NOT
They have changed...sad indeed.
A way of life for so many outdoors people has changed for whatever reasons. It will slowly get worse ,, Im guessing in the next 20 -30 years there will be NO hunting ,,,,Grizzly,,,,Sheep will be next and so on down the line.The writing is on the wall, sad indeed.
Im a BC resident , and 59 years old and been trapping,fishing,hunting basically my whole life in BC.
Sorry to be so negative,,,,its just a reality.
FF to 2040- wow I wish I could go on a hunting expedition like my dad did "back in the day"
I hope Im wrong.
 

dewert

FNG
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Jan 7, 2023
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Very sad. I am a BC resident who got into hunting 5 years ago. This year Im looking to do my first sheep hunt in the BC northern rockies. I figure I need to make the most of it since these hunts dont sound like they will be around for long.
 

Bruce Culberson

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Tater - the future outlook is bleak based on the trajectory we are headed so far. With moose closures last year in the Peace where annual harvest was around 2% I believe and the bios say 5-6% is sustainable.....

Best get after it while opportunity is still there.
 
Joined
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"$60k-$80k" in the hands of an outfitter buys a lot of food for the outfitter, packers, guides, veterinarian, pilot, bush plane mechanic, snow sled dealer & mechanic, etc. and their families.
 

cbeard64

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Lots of discussion about this going on now. It seems obvious that science points to the need to go to a draw system for residents in both AK and BC. But the culture of hunting is deeply ingrained there so by and large the residents are pushing back hard on that so it’s a thorny issue, to say the least.

The indigenous peoples issue is also a real wild card, though so far that has manifested itself more with other animals like caribou and moose.

I don’t think NR hunters are the real issue as those tags are controlled by quota allocations to outfitters. As in the lower 48, further limiting NR tags may be the easiest thing to do politically but it would have limited effect and mainly serve just to hurt outfitters. I also don’t believe the auction tags are an issue - almost all of those $$ go directly back into conservation. I do have concern about the cost of sheep, moose, and goat hunts in general turning average folks’ attention away from them from a conservation standpoint.

Plus, it’s not just hunting that’s a factor. Environmental factors such as loss of high meadows and harsh winters over the past few years may play a bigger role than hunting pressure.

Lots of contributing factors means there are no easy answers so it will interesting to see what the future holds.
 
Joined
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Lots of discussion about this going on now. It seems obvious that science points to the need to go to a draw system for residents in both AK and BC. But the culture of hunting is deeply ingrained there so by and large the residents are pushing back hard on that so it’s a thorny issue, to say the least.

The indigenous peoples issue is also a real wild card, though so far that has manifested itself more with other animals like caribou and moose.

I don’t think NR hunters are the real issue as those tags are controlled by quota allocations to outfitters. As in the lower 48, further limiting NR tags may be the easiest thing to do politically but it would have limited effect and mainly serve just to hurt outfitters. I also don’t believe the auction tags are an issue - almost all of those $$ go directly back into conservation. I do have concern about the cost of sheep, moose, and goat hunts in general turning average folks’ attention away from them from a conservation standpoint.

Plus, it’s not just hunting that’s a factor. Environmental factors such as loss of high meadows and harsh winters over the past few years may play a bigger role than hunting pressure.

Lots of contributing factors means there are no easy answers so it will interesting to see what the future holds.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but I don’t think it is “obvious that science points to a need for a draw system for residents” in AK.

NR hunters take somewhere in the range of 35-40% of the rams taken in Alaska every year. If we remove resident draw hunts from the calculations, somewhere around 45% of the rams taken on general season tags every year are NR. To say that NR are not the problem is pretty silly. That’s an enormous take, and I’m not aware of any other state or province with legit allocation issues that would allow for that.

Guides making $30k+ / sheep have so many more resources at their disposal to make their hunts successful than Joe Blow who flies into the mountains once a year as cheaply as he can. Success rates will tell you as much. I think it’s reasonable to assume that as sheep numbers dwindle, and $$$/sheep for guides climb, the disparity in success rates between R and NR in general units will become even sharper.

Given this information, I think it’s obvious that the “quota allocations” are not sufficiently limiting NR take. I think it makes perfect sense to limit NR take to, say, 25% (or less) of the harvest each year and put AK on a state-wide draw for NR to accomplish that.

It seems that BC’s sheep hunting future is in real peril. I hope the same is not true for Alaska. The culture here has a very strong hunting tradition, even among the most populated areas of the state. That said, even as a hunter, I find the idea of paying $30k+ for the opportunity to shoot a sheep distasteful, it is clearly a dick measuring trophy thing and that makes sheep hunting less palatable and justifiable to the general public as a whole, imo.
 

cbeard64

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Can’t argue with that. I didn’t realize NR take was so high as I have never hunted AK for sheep. 25% for NR would still be more than all the states in the Lower 48 allocate for NRs.

Even so, if populations are in real peril seems like the resident take being unlimited in large areas would still need to be addressed at some point just as it is in the Lower 48 with the draw systems. I’m just exploring options but one thing’s for sure: no area can keep going with increasing demand and a dwindling supply indefinitely.
 

Bighorn80

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Nov 25, 2020
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Can’t argue with that. I didn’t realize NR take was so high as I have never hunted AK for sheep. 25% for NR would still be more than all the states in the Lower 48 allocate for NRs.

Even so, if populations are in real peril seems like the resident take being unlimited in large areas would still need to be addressed at some point just as it is in the Lower 48 with the draw systems. I’m just exploring options but one thing’s for sure: no area can keep going with increasing demand and a dwindling supply indefinitely.
A draw system for residents is not the solution. They are not overhunted... environmental factors and predation are the biggest killers, one of which we can do nothing about. Perfect example would be the TMA here in Alaska... very limited draw, low to moderate harvest, but the population currently very low.
Sheep hunting is more or less self regulating. What I mean by that is, when everyone knows there are less sheep to hunt, less people go hunt them, therefor the harvest is less. Look up the data... hunter participation follows closely with sheep population. And in a special draw area (such as the TMA or DCUA), if there are very few mature rams to hunt, far less people will put in for the tag. Generally speaking the hunters who love being in the mountains regardless of harvest and the hard core sheep hunters will be the ones out hunting when there are very few mature rams to be found.
Science and history shows they will recover without limiting hunting opportunity.
 
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tater

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I live in Region 4 and I'm only an hour from a few of the areas.

I have my conclusions already that I've weighed since 2021 on what should or shouldn't have happened. I'm just wondering what others have to think.
 
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