The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

[Beagle1]

Where’s your proof? Prove to me God isn’t real please

Actually, no, this has been covered before. You have to do the proving. If I said Santa Claus exists would you have to prove he didn’t.

 

[CRJR45]

This thread reminds me why I don't talk politics or religion in mixed crowds, never ends well.

And it reminds me why it should be debated . The hypocrisy of the issue oozes through this thread just like it does in daily life .
The believers assume the moral high ground and condemn anybody that dares to disagree as ignorant or not capable of understanding .
Then , in society anyway , the believer cries out he is under attack for his beliefs , after crying them out to whoever would listen .
I'm not attacking anybody , I'm just using logic and critical thinking to look at the issue objectively , point out the flaws in their thinking .

 

[dylanvb]

Actually, no, this has been covered before. You have to do the proving. If I said Santa Claus exists would you have to prove he didn’t.

watch the video. Just because you don’t like the proof doesn’t qualify it as proof. It’s so funny how many times we have posted scripture, historicity, and now scientific claims pointing towards God and all you do is say, nope that’s not enough.

The message is simple. It’s your choice or not to believe.

“And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10‬:‭14‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[CRJR45]

you responded in 4 minutes and goes to show you didn’t even bother with watching the video.

You assume I have not watched that video previously ? You assume that you and only you have access to information ?
You assume much .

 

[CRJR45]

Where’s your proof? Prove to me God isn’t real please

The proof that god is not real is everywhere . From my god loving grandmother who never sinned in her life having to suffer in a assisted living facility for years before she died .
To the state of the world , Jews killing Christians in Palestine with the weapons we , a supposedly Christian nation gave them .
When I look at the very book you worship , and read all the times the word of your god has demanded death and rape and how happy his followers were to obliged him .
When I think if the great flood did happen , I think of all the babies and young children that were to young to have sinned floating around until they drowned a horrible death , because your god was mad .
The proof of gods nonexistence is everywhere , tangible evidence I can touch and feel , not a fairy tale with a happy ending .
Now , tell me again how I don't get it .

 

[Beagle1]

Your

This thread was started as a christian thread, there was no question posed or challenge offered. the mixed crowd found it and started challenging christians. The funny thing is the people challenging the beliefs of christians have admitted they are simply here to challenge christians, despite this being a thread started by christians for christians. Sort of like a anti-hunter coming to a hunting thread to stir up drama. You have to ask yourself "why"?

The fact the responses have been so civil is a testament to the people posting in this forum. There are a lot of good people in this forum. Unfortunately, just being good is not a path to anything other than self righteousness.

Let’s set the record straight.

This thread may have originated as a Christian discussion, but if the ideas supporting the Christian position cannot be questioned state that at the beginning and that only posts supporting this position are welcome. Challenging ideas, even strongly held religious beliefs, is not the same as “stirring up drama.”

If the purpose of the thread was genuinely to explore Christian thought, then respectful challenges should be seen as opportunities not attacks. The idea that non-Christians are just “here to stir the pot” paints all disagreement as hostility, unless the posts confirm what you want to believe. I thought as with all the threads on this forum if someone engages respectfully, then their participation was welcome as part of the normal healthy give and take of ideas here.

Christianity has always made truth claims. If those claims are persuasive they should hold up under a little scrutiny in a hunting forum.

 

[Yoder]

Your view of salvation dovetails with many other Christian denominations.

But there is also an exclusivist theology common in conservative evangelical and fundamentalist churches that teaches your view is wrong. It requires explicit belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior for salvation. So the Amazon dwellers and followers of other religions no matter how devout or moral are lost unless they convert.

Under this theology Gandhi or the Dalai Lama are damned but a violent criminal who repents on death row and confesses Jesus is saved.

Which Christian theology is right determines the salvation of billions of people.

Anyone who decides who's going to hell or not is playing God. Christians should remember that.

 

[Beagle1]

Anyone who decides who's going to hell or not is playing God. Christians should remember that.

We agree there.

 

[socoalt]

I have addressed this question many times before here and in private. I’m engaging because I care about the questions being raised and think belief or non-belief are important. And I don’t question a believer’s assertions to be combative, but because truth (if we’re after it) should be able to withstand scrutiny.

I don’t claim to have all the answers, and I’ve been honest about where I stand. It’s been my experience in life that you don’t learn much from just listening to people that continually tell you what you want to hear.

If that frustrates some, I get it. But as I said before if I am not welcome to post in this thread just say it.

The one thing that has with stood scrutiny for 2 centuries is the resurrection. That is the truth. Try for yourself to disprove it. Take as long as you want/need to find the evidence. Prove to the world that Jesus did not rise as it is written. Study it and find facts that it is not true.

Don’t mistake our responses to you as being frustrated. Many of us may at one point been in your shoes where we didn’t believe and had the same questions, comments, and beliefs that you are posting here.

Know this, your argument is not going to raise any doubt in our minds or change our beliefs. At this point your involvement in this thread rivals that of the op and some of the believers who have posted here, so you’re either searching and are curious about God or your trolling. If you’re searching feel free to pm me and I’ll answer all the questions that I am able to. If your trolling well…

 

[Yoder]

Whenever I debate any believer , which is often , the discussion always ends with the believer saying , after all their points were proven false -"Well you just have to have faith !"
You guys trying to use the bible to prove god is real really don't get it . Take the bible out of the debate , and what proof is there of a god ?
It's a simple test , without the bible , no one would believe in a god .
Now , don't think I'm being mean or trying to belittle anybody . I'm just trying to get you guys to see the facts .
Arguing over the meaning of something written 1750 years ago is pointless , it just comes down to how you choose to interpret it .
If you want to believe thats fine , but don't get all butthurt when someone doubts you .



Also , who's really trolling this thread ?

Do you believe Alexander the Great was real? His history was written hundreds of years after he died. The New Testament was written with the lifespan of people who actually knew Jesus but that is disregarded. I understand if you don't believe Jesusis God, but the Bible is backed by archeology and history. Especially the New Testament.

 

[NVUplandHunter]

I have addressed this question many times before here and in private. I’m engaging because I care about the questions being raised and think belief or non-belief are important. And I don’t question a believer’s assertions to be combative, but because truth (if we’re after it) should be able to withstand scrutiny.

I don’t claim to have all the answers, and I’ve been honest about where I stand. It’s been my experience in life that you don’t learn much from just listening to people that continually tell you what you want to hear.

If that frustrates some, I get it. But as I said before if I am not welcome to post in this thread just say it.

I think maybe you should change your commenting style if thats your true intentions. people continue to tell you why they believe what they believe and you come back with an argument ever single time. I have yet to see you say anything accepting of anyone else's position even if you dont agree with it.

People have offered you more info on the subject and encouraged you to listen. people have asked what you're looking for and you just say this same thing. at this point the comments are going in circles and you're at the middle of it.

you or anyone else are not unwelcomed to the conversation. you've been told that so stop crying wolf. I think at this point you want a Christian to tell you to go away so you have just another reason to argue. you are welcome here, dont be upset though when people are tired of your "conversation" style.

you're also not hear to learn. you could have learned so much by all the theology thats been spelled out here. you're resistant to it. Its okay too, just dont pretend you're here to try and learn anything when you're not willing to accept the info placed before you. i dont think anyone here at this point knows what you want to hear. We have tried.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

And it reminds me why it should be debated . The hypocrisy of the issue oozes through this thread just like it does in daily life .
The believers assume the moral high ground and condemn anybody that dares to disagree as ignorant or not capable of understanding .
Then , in society anyway , the believer cries out he is under attack for his beliefs , after crying them out to whoever would listen .
I'm not attacking anybody , I'm just using logic and critical thinking to look at the issue objectively , point out the flaws in their thinking .

The proof that god is not real is everywhere . From my god loving grandmother who never sinned in her life having to suffer in a assisted living facility for years before she died .
To the state of the world , Jews killing Christians in Palestine with the weapons we , a supposedly Christian nation gave them .
When I look at the very book you worship , and read all the times the word of your god has demanded death and rape and how happy his followers were to obliged him .
When I think if the great flood did happen , I think of all the babies and young children that were to young to have sinned floating around until they drowned a horrible death , because your god was mad .
The proof of gods nonexistence is everywhere , tangible evidence I can touch and feel , not a fairy tale with a happy ending .
Now , tell me again how I don't get it .

in one post you totally contradict yourself....you state you use logic and critical thinking and then in your very next post you are arguing form a pure emotional non-logical stand point.

Listen, I am sorry you have had pain in your life, but guess what, we all have. No one knows the pain of being human better than Jesus. His life was all about the suffering humans can endure, from the emotional side all the way to the physical side. Jesus showed us there is a way to endure and finish the race strong. You are looking at things from a very selfish standpoint. I can ask did your God loving grandmother actually suffer or was she enduring the finality of her race? What seems like suffering for one person may in fact be a feat of strength for another.
Yes God killed off many different people groups in the Bible, but every time He did it because that people group were either tempting the chosen people away from Him, or the people group was causing a rift in the chosen people. The good news of the Bible is we are all the chosen people. We all have temptations that try to take our eyes away from God. And he is there, fighting on our behalf to destroy temptations and evil. I wish everyone could see that, but some do not have eyes to see it.

Using emotions to prove God doesn't exist is kind of illogical, If there is no God, then there is only nature. Yet, nature doesn't suffer. Nature doesn't consider anything good or evil. Nature is just nature. IF God doesn't exist, how is it that you consider anything suffering or evil? What is the standard by which you compare anything to make those claims. Please explain.

 

[Beagle1]

The one thing that has with stood scrutiny for 2 centuries is the resurrection. That is the truth. Try for yourself to disprove it. Take as long as you want/need to find the evidence. Prove to the world that Jesus did not rise as it is written. Study it and find facts that it is not true.

Don’t mistake our responses to you as being frustrated. Many of us may at one point been in your shoes where we didn’t believe and had the same questions, comments, and beliefs that you are posting here.

Know this, your argument is not going to raise any doubt in our minds or change our beliefs. At this point your involvement in this thread rivals that of the op and some of the believers who have posted here, so you’re either searching and are curious about God or your trolling. If you’re searching feel free to pm me and I’ll answer all the questions that I am able to. If your trolling well…

I have better things to do with my time than troll on a Christian thread in a hunting forum. Thanks for the PM offer but I am fine. And I have reason to believe a poster here likes to share the private contents of PMs with others so there’s that too.

As I said you are responsible for the proving. The resurrection has been discussed before here. You can read the posts.

 

[Beagle1]

I think maybe you should change your commenting style if thats your true intentions. people continue to tell you why they believe what they believe and you come back with an argument ever single time. I have yet to see you say anything accepting of anyone else's position even if you dont agree with it.

People have offered you more info on the subject and encouraged you to listen. people have asked what you're looking for and you just say this same thing. at this point the comments are going in circles and you're at the middle of it.

you or anyone else are not unwelcomed to the conversation. you've been told that so stop crying wolf. I think at this point you want a Christian to tell you to go away so you have just another reason to argue. you are welcome here, dont be upset though when people are tired of your "conversation" style.

you're also not hear to learn. you could have learned so much by all the theology thats been spelled out here. you're resistant to it. Its okay too, just dont pretend you're here to try and learn anything when you're not willing to accept the info placed before you. i dont think anyone here at this point knows what you want to hear. We have tried.

You tell me why you believe and the reasons why and I tell you why I don’t and the reasons why. That’s called a discussion. I mostly agree about the Groundhog Day stuff but if you look at my posts I am only responding to believers’ arguments that they continually keep reposting on topics after they have already been discussed. An example would be the repeated questions about my motives. I’ve answered that numerous times.

And we have different ideas of learning. So I am not trying to learn anything “when you're not willing to accept the info placed before you.”

 

[socoalt]

I have better things to do with my time than troll on a Christian thread in a hunting forum. Thanks for the PM offer but I am fine. And I have reason to believe a poster here likes to share the private contents of PMs with others so there’s that too.

As I said you are responsible for the proving. The resurrection has been discussed before here. You can read the po

I have better things to do with my time than troll on a Christian thread in a hunting forum. Thanks for the PM offer but I am fine. And I have reason to believe a poster here likes to share the private contents of PMs with others so there’s that too.

As I said you are responsible for the proving. The resurrection has been discussed before here. You can read the posts.

I don’t think you can do it either

 

[Beagle1]

Do you believe Alexander the Great was real? His history was written hundreds of years after he died. The New Testament was written with the lifespan of people who actually knew Jesus but that is disregarded. I understand if you don't believe Jesusis God, but the Bible is backed by archeology and history. Especially the New Testament.

Both sides of this have been discussed before at length in prior posts.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

If you are accusing me of sharing pm details with anyone, then you better rescind that accusation. I am not trying to be vain here and think this is all about me, but you PM'd me and I don't know if you PM'd anyone else, but I did not share anything with anyone.

 

[NVUplandHunter]

Ah, the free will comment. Your reply made this clearer for me. You can break any of the 10 commandants as you say, but if you do, you will not be in the good grace of god. If you suffer eternal damnation for exercising your free will, then that's not free will. For example, worshipping Ra, or Brahma or Thor.

Not sure why you and @Yoder said you are not god. I did not ask if you were, but simply your opinion (or interpretation since there are many) of what will happen to NB during the 2nd coming.

I have not read revelation.


Eddie

i am free to follow the rules and i am free to not follow the rules. I'll use driving to explain the way i understand it. Theres a posted speed limit sign and my car can go faster than that speed limit. the punishment if i get caught speeding is a ticket or jail. I can choose to go over the speed limit knowing im risking being in trouble, or i can follow the speed laws and avoid punishment.

i guess the way i could explain a lack of free will with this same example would be that my car have something built into the computer (our brains in the faith subject) that only allows my car to go as fast as the post speed limit. i cannot go faster or slow, the car drives and i have no control.

I am free to do as i will, but there are consequences to that. every action has a consequence, some good and some bad. God does not force me to love Him, i dont have to do that. I do not love God because im afraid of what happens if i dont. I do because He I want to out of my own free will. God has done things for me in my life to fully believe in Him and know that He loves me. i dont do it out of fearing Him and eternal fire.

Yoder and I say we are not God because the answer to the question you asked is up to God. God has the ultimate say in the end so we dont know. I'm not going to make that judgement when its not my place. Only God knows what He will do in the end.

I recommend reading Revelation! its pretty wild and gives a good explanation of what the end of times will look like. and until the end of times, God will judge everyones heart and decide where they go.

I hope that helps answer the question a little better than before.

 

[Beagle1]

I don’t think you can do it either

If you are accusing me of sharing pm details with anyone, then you better rescind that accusation. I am not trying to be vain here and think this is all about me, but you PM'd me and I don't know if you PM'd anyone else, but I did not share anything with anyone.

I did not mention you.

 

[NVUplandHunter]

You tell me why you believe and the reasons why and I tell you why I don’t and the reasons why. That’s called a discussion. I mostly agree about the Groundhog Day stuff but if you look at my posts I am only responding to believers’ arguments that they continually keep reposting on topics after they have already been discussed. An example would be the repeated questions about my motives. I’ve answered that numerous times.

And we have different ideas of learning. So I am not trying to learn anything “when you're not willing to accept the info placed before you.”

are you truly tryin to learn something here? If so, what are you trying to learn?

this is why i said maybe try changing your conversation style. what you describe here is not how it is coming across to many people here which is why we are all going in circles.

sometimes the answers to questions are just faith. sometimes things cant be explained and we just rely on faith. if you get that answer, and dont understand and want to, ask the question from curiosity. your questioning is coming across as looking for a "gotcha" moment most the time.

and i will also point out, you're constantly being questioned on your motives and you explain but get questioned again, maybe something needs to change. people are not accepting your answer because it doesnt align with how you're conducting you comments.

I'm happy to have a productive conversation with you. If you have questions, im happy to answer them to the best of my knowledge. but if you are just here to question everything to get a reaction out of people, i wont engage in that.