The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

[Texasbuckeye]

On 'truth'

Is there any assertion that cannot be accepted on faith, regardless of the truth of it?

Is it a good way to know true things?

Every single religion accepts their claims "on faith" right? All the various denominations of Christianity, Judaism and Islam. They all hold "faith" out as their reason to believe what they believe.

Are they ALL 'true'? Of course not. All of the competing and contradictory assertions makes it impossible for all faith based assertions to be true.

This, more than anything else, makes me look very hard at the use of faith as a way to know true things and it really doesn't rise to the level I require.

If you are going to quote something I wrote, you can not take the first and last sentences and use just those. My posts are all written in context and with purpose, so essentially you are doing what some do with the Bible (please do not take that to mean I think my writing is on par with the Bible) by taking one verse and trying to literalize that one verse out of the greater context of the chapter and book it came from.

I will answer some of your post, in that the difference between taking things "on faith" with Christianity is that Christianity is a relational situation, and as such we have access to speak to and hear from God the Son and the Holy Spirit. The entire purpose of Jesus was to create a relational manner with which humankind could interact with God to be able to spend eternity with God.

This differs from all other religions in that all other religions are transactional. You do good stuff, or behave a certain way, and god will reward you in some manner. For some religions this transaction results in eternity with god in the afterlife, in some it results in revelation, for some it results in worldly stuff. But in all, you do or behave a certain way and whatever the result is from a transactional god.

With Christianity, we have a relationship with our deity. We can speak of things like faith because we can experience God throughout relationship and know that God desires us and what is best for us, just like most human parents want the best of rtheir kids. There is plenty of historical record to testify to the validity of the Christian dogma and the reality of the person Jesus. While the same can be said for some other religions, none of these other religions had a person who claimed to be the Son of God for that religion who willingly sacrificed themself and was documented to be resurrected after., fulfilling the prophecy of the earlier writings from the same God. In the end, there isn't much "of faith" we actually have to go by, other than to say we were personally not witnesses to this. But the historical record is out there for anyone who wishes to find it.

 

[Maverick1]

Praise the lord. Rokslide turned into a religious forum…..

 

[realunlucky]

Praise the lord. Rokslide turned into a religious forum…..

99.9 of all the other threads on Rokslide aren't religious so there's always that fact to lean on as needed.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[*zap*]

Wrath can be a vbt.

 

[TaperPin]

Those that believe don’t require the approval of those that don’t, and atheists have plenty of arguments for this or that. As a practical matter, religion is a human thing across all continents and peoples. It strengthens community bonds, gives a sense of belonging, a stress reliever for many, a social net to help the least fortunate, and encourages folks to be confident in their lives both public and private, clergy help a lot of people from just listening, to connecting people with resources to help through a rough time. Even if someone is just going through the motions, knowing it really is a positive thing for the community and for families goes a long way.

We were probably more involved in the Catholic Church than most, my best friends were alter boys, one became a priest, my other friend had a dad that was a priest in a different religion, an aunt is a nun. My mother got a lot of stress relief from religion and without it would probably have needed antidepressants and counseling to deal with some stressful long term family issues. If it is real, or we simply fail to exist when our time is up, doesn’t really matter, the optimism and support is helpful now as we sort through life.

I’m not a religious or spiritual person, but I appreciate the positive things it brings people who are. Trying to convince everyone to be atheists without addressing how the real practical benefits of organized religion would be replaced is short sighted.

If someone prayed to a purple frog as the Devine Being and it made them a better person I would count that as a good thing.

If someone prays five times a day and then does hateful things to people that don’t pray to their god, or look like them, or think like them, I tend to think of them as religious trash. If religion is true or not, in their case they make the world a worse place. They would be jackasses had they been born clear around the world living a shack, talking crap about their neighbors, stabbing them in the back whenever possible if it helped them a tiny amount.

 

[*zap*]

I was an alter boy for 10 years or so, catholic elementary school also. Learned to fear the wrath of the nuns....child abuse was ok back then.

 

[go_deep]

 

[Texasbuckeye]

I was an alter boy for 10 years or so, catholic elementary school also. Learned to fear the wrath of the nuns....child abuse was ok back then

I know a lot of people reject christianity due to the faults of the church or the members of the church, but it is important to remember all humans have faults and none of us are perfect. God is many things, but His love for you is never ending and He will not stop trying to seek you.

I have no excuses for the faults of people, esp people who abuse kids.

 

[Cowbell]

I was an alter boy for 10 years or so, catholic elementary school also. Learned to fear the wrath of the nuns....child abuse was ok back then.

A lot of bad churches out there. The Bible prophesies this and God says he will spew them out of his mouth and they will be hushed accordingly. Have you ever had a relationship with the Lord though?

 

[Texasbuckeye]

There are a lot of people who look at God as a policeman standing on a swollen flooded fast moving river bank with arms crossed yelling “i told you not to get in the water, now you will surely die” , and they keep their eyes fixed on that figure of condemnation and completely miss the figure of Jesus on the other bank screaming over the raging water that he is there to rescue you and has perfectly thrown a flotation ring on a strong rope right at you, all you have to do is turn your fixation and look His way to see it and grab it.

The reality is the policeman is a figure invented by satan and isnt at all close to what God is, was, or ever will be be. But we are so fixated on the guilt, or shame, or stubbornness, we can neither take our eyes off the false image nor turn and look toward Jesus there trying to save us.

 

[Jpsmith1]

If you are going to quote something I wrote, you can not take the first and last sentences and use just those. My posts are all written in context and with purpose, so essentially you are doing what some do with the Bible (please do not take that to mean I think my writing is on par with the Bible) by taking one verse and trying to literalize that one verse out of the greater context of the chapter and book it came from.

I will answer some of your post, in that the difference between taking things "on faith" with Christianity is that Christianity is a relational situation, and as such we have access to speak to and hear from God the Son and the Holy Spirit. The entire purpose of Jesus was to create a relational manner with which humankind could interact with God to be able to spend eternity with God.

This differs from all other religions in that all other religions are transactional. You do good stuff, or behave a certain way, and god will reward you in some manner. For some religions this transaction results in eternity with god in the afterlife, in some it results in revelation, for some it results in worldly stuff. But in all, you do or behave a certain way and whatever the result is from a transactional god.

With Christianity, we have a relationship with our deity. We can speak of things like faith because we can experience God throughout relationship and know that God desires us and what is best for us, just like most human parents want the best of rtheir kids. There is plenty of historical record to testify to the validity of the Christian dogma and the reality of the person Jesus. While the same can be said for some other religions, none of these other religions had a person who claimed to be the Son of God for that religion who willingly sacrificed themself and was documented to be resurrected after., fulfilling the prophecy of the earlier writings from the same God. In the end, there isn't much "of faith" we actually have to go by, other than to say we were personally not witnesses to this. But the historical record is out there for anyone who wishes to find it.

As a challenge to you, read your response and don't apply your beliefs to it. Read it through MY eyes. Read it as an outsider to your faith.

Take the minute and a half it'll take to read that, set aside what you already think and believe and tell me if it makes any sense.

 

[Plainsman79]

A lot of bad churches out there. The Bible prophesies this and God says he will spew them out of his mouth and they will be hushed accordingly. Have you ever had a relationship with the Lord though?

Curious to what you think is a bad church and your logic behind it.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

As a challenge to you, read your response and don't apply your beliefs to it. Read it through MY eyes. Read it as an outsider to your faith.

Take the minute and a half it'll take to read that, set aside what you already think and believe and tell me if it makes any sense.

You are asking me to take a post, put in a thread about Christianity and the God of Christianity, and take the christianity and God out of it and read it from a non-religious standpoint?

What is the point of that exercise? What is your faith system and what is your motivation to be posting on here if you do not believe in the God of Christianity?

I am not trying to be mean, just trying to understand your expectations. What you proposed is like asking a poster to take their elk hunting post and read it as a goose hunter (or even possibly just a goose watcher). It makes no sense without some significant background. So please explain what you are wanting from your request a little more.

 

[Cowbell]

Curious to what you think is a bad church and your logic behind it.

Bad churches are churches that don't proclaim the gospel and speak biblical truth. There are more bad churches than biblical churches in western society. Many of them with devout people being misled by false doctrine and false religion.

 

[Cowbell]

You are asking me to take a post, put in a thread about Christianity and the God of Christianity, and take the christianity and God out of it and read it from a non-religious standpoint?

What is the point of that exercise? What is your faith system and what is your motivation to be posting on here if you do not believe in the God of Christianity?

I am not trying to be mean, just trying to understand your expectations. What you proposed is like asking a poster to take their elk hunting post and read it as a goose hunter (or even possibly just a goose watcher). It makes no sense without some significant background. So please explain what you are wanting from your request a little more.

It's not a bad ask. To effectively share the gospel with nonbelievers, we have to first understand where they are at

 

[Cowbell]

As a challenge to you, read your response and don't apply your beliefs to it. Read it through MY eyes. Read it as an outsider to your faith.

Take the minute and a half it'll take to read that, set aside what you already think and believe and tell me if it makes any sense.

What are your beliefs/understandings/thoughts on God and or religion? I'm asking so I can dialogue. Would enjoy the discussion.

 

[Hill Difficulty]

As a challenge to you, read your response and don't apply your beliefs to it. Read it through MY eyes. Read it as an outsider to your faith.

Take the minute and a half it'll take to read that, set aside what you already think and believe and tell me if it makes any sense.

Gonna take a crack at answering when I have time.

Response will be a bit different than all of the force feeding going on here.

 

[Texasbuckeye]

The reaponse is very simple really, and not any different from what i posted:

The God of Christianity wants a relationship with the person similar to what a loving parent wanting a relationship with their child.

All other religions are simply a human doing good things and being rewarded for it in a variety of ways. There is no relationship, only a transaction for good behavior or living a good life or whatever.

That requires no faith to understand.

Would you rather desire to follow a loving good fatherly God, or a distant judgemental cashier type god?

 

[Jpsmith1]

What are your beliefs/understandings/thoughts on God and or religion? I'm asking so I can dialogue. Would enjoy the discussion.

I am an agnostic atheist who stands mostly on the null hypothesis and the burden of proof meaning that someone making an assertion bears the burden to demonstrate the truth of that assertion.

So, if you say that God exists, it it down to you to use evidence to prove that assertion.

I want to revisit this and flesh the response out lest people think I'm here solely to troll. I am genuinely curious about how people think and why people think, act, behave and believe as they do, even myself.

About 15 years ago, I started on a process of continuous self reflection and iterative improvement and refinement that has brought me to today and, ultimately this process continues daily. While I've studied religions and I have read various holy texts, I've never found reason to believe any of them. Even so, there's always that part of me that asks "what if you’re wrong" so I try to engage these kinds of discussions to try to learn more about why people believe

 

[Jpsmith1]

You are asking me to take a post, put in a thread about Christianity and the God of Christianity, and take the christianity and God out of it and read it from a non-religious standpoint?

What is the point of that exercise? What is your faith system and what is your motivation to be posting on here if you do not believe in the God of Christianity?

I am not trying to be mean, just trying to understand your expectations. What you proposed is like asking a poster to take their elk hunting post and read it as a goose hunter (or even possibly just a goose watcher). It makes no sense without some significant background. So please explain what you are wanting from your request a little more.

My point is still to focus on the idea of truth and if faith is a good way to know what is true. Less the difference between a goose and an elk hunter and more an elk hunter sitting on a different knob and looking at the same idea with a new perspective.

Your answer, the one I asked you to review from a different perspective, is kind of nonsense from the perspective of an outsider such as myself.

It can only work if you are already a believer.