The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom

[dylanvb]

I am not educated enough to go into this theory or that theory but I do know this. The message of the Bible is simple enough for me, a person with a high school level of knowledge to understand.

We have all sinned, we all fall short. I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.

I do not bother with other religions because they are all transactional. I have to give to get.

Christ is a free gift, all I have to do is believe. I don’t have to follow some religions rules I just have to repent and believe.

 

[Jpsmith1]

What’s your bases for “Good”?

There was only one true Good person in this world and I base that off Jesus Christ.

Again if you’re willing to take that gamble then I won’t argue. I can’t lol

Are you reading any of my other responses?

I have been trying to discuss moral philosophy with Texasbuckeye. I see no real need to rehash what ultimately amounts to the same argument with you. My responses to him are applicable to your post as well.

 

[dylanvb]

Are you reading any of my other responses?

I have been trying to discuss moral philosophy with Texasbuckeye. I see no real need to rehash what ultimately amounts to the same argument with you. My responses to him are applicable to your post as well.

Are you reading my responses?

If you are willing to take that gamble I will not argue with you.

In the end you are responsible for you.

 

[go_deep]

His name is Pastor Peter LaRuffa. This is an exerpt from the 2014 film "Questioning Darwin" you're welcome to watch it all

I think I saw enough. Honestly, I think I see where he might have been trying to go, but he did it with a horrifically bad example that did no justice, only harm.
I follow the church that Jesus built, I'm not interested in whatever he's doing.

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
So by their fruits you will know them.
Matthew 7:15-20

 

[Jpsmith1]

Your not the bad guy for asking questions, I'd never once say that, because even in my own faith I have questions, that's how we learn and grow.

I'll just say this, and truly deep down inside, only you can answer this. Are you asking the questions because you truly want to know regardless of the answer? Or are you going through the motions asking questions, but you already have decide the answer you want, regardless of what the answer really is?

So, I have been asking these questions for close to 15 years now. That's pretty close to when I came out and said "I am an atheist"

I'll be clear that I wasn't raised in a strong faith tradition and that God was mostly used as an unpaid babysitter, much like Santa Claus.

Given adequate evidence or a more convincing argument, I will change my mind. Period. I have done so multiple times and will continue to do so. I deeply LOVE being wrong about things because it allows me an opportunity to be more right tomorrow as a part of the iterative process by which I've modeled my intellectual live on for about that same 15 years. I'd be happy to discuss the catalyst events for the iterative process, how I started the iterative process and how it led me to today if you’re curious.

 

[dylanvb]

It takes more faith to believe that we come from nothing and be able to defend that then it does to say I believe in a creator and the message that He has provided for us so I do commend those who don’t believe in God.

I mean when does nothing become something? lol never, unless you believe in the big bang then we both believe in the same thing.

You believe nothing became everything. I believe God commanded nothing to be everything. It really is the same argument it’s just what word do you want to place in the front.

 

[Jpsmith1]

Are you reading my responses?

If you are willing to take that gamble I will not argue with you.

In the end you are responsible for you.

I only challenged you because he is asking basically the same questions of me.

 

[Jpsmith1]

It takes more faith to believe that we come from nothing and be able to defend that then it does to say I believe in a creator and the message that He has provided for us so I do commend those who don’t believe in God.

I mean when does nothing become something? lol never, unless you believe in the big bang then we both believe in the same thing.

You believe nothing became everything. I believe God commanded nothing to be everything. It really is the same argument it’s just what word do you want to place in the front.

It is my inclination to be uncharitable with comments like this that have me close to backing away from this topic.

I like Rokslide and I wish to stay here.

 

[dylanvb]

@Jpsmith1
I’ll make the question very simple.

Are you willing to stand in front of God and answer for the way you lived your life? Are you sure you want to go to the end on your own understanding?

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: “Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me. “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?”
‭‭Job‬ ‭38‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[go_deep]

So, I have been asking these questions for close to 15 years now. That's pretty close to when I came out and said "I am an atheist"

I'll be clear that I wasn't raised in a strong faith tradition and that God was mostly used as an unpaid babysitter, much like Santa Claus.

Given adequate evidence or a more convincing argument, I will change my mind. Period. I have done so multiple times and will continue to do so. I deeply LOVE being wrong about things because it allows me an opportunity to be more right tomorrow as a part of the iterative process by which I've modeled my intellectual live on for about that same 15 years. I'd be happy to discuss the catalyst events for the iterative process, how I started the iterative process and how it led me to today if you’re curious.

I've made this offer to many people on here about this subject, you want to have a conversation and ask questions, shoot me a PM, well figure out a time to have a phone call. I'll answer anything I can, listen, and get answer for everything I don't know.

Just take what I'm about to say to heart and let it simmer if you will for a few hours or even days.
Your reference above about God being used as a babysitter tells me that like me, God and church, bring up some bad memories from childhood or times in your life, and unfortunately, they're not tied together, but emotionally we think they are. You have to separate those two.

This maybe a bit of an extreme example, but just follow me on this. My aunt gets a rescue horse in Minnesota, the horse is great, shows zero signs of abuse. Gets to the point after a few months she's even riding the horse, building trust, then one day the horse goes bat crap crazy. She can't figure it out, couple days go by, the horse is fine, then one day the horse goes crazy again. She finally figured it out, the orange can of fly spray. The fly spray isn't bad, it's actually helps the horse, but apparently the previous owner would use a can of fly spray to beat the hell out of the horse, so the horse got trained mentally and emotionally to think, fly spray is bad and when it saw a can of fly spray, get defensive. After some time, the horse adjust and figured the fly spray want going to hurt it anymore. It had to let go of that hurt from it's previous experiences, and move forward, forgive and forget.

You want to talk, let me know, be happy to figure out a time that works for both of us.

 

[dylanvb]

It is my inclination to be uncharitable with comments like this that have me close to backing away from this topic.

I like Rokslide and I wish to stay here.

I mean you posted on a Christian thread. Do you not expect some pushback?

Are you truly an atheist? You truly believe there is no God?

If you are at the point of your life where you believe there is something you just don’t know which road to take then keep searching.

I understand there isn’t enough “evidence” for you but I do encourage you to stop looking for huge miracles and signs. God is often in the small subtle details.

“Then He said, “Go out, and stand on the mountain before the Lord.” And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; and after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice. So it was, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. Suddenly a voice came to him, and said, “What are you doing here, Elijah?””
‭‭I Kings‬ ‭19‬:‭11‬-‭13‬ ‭NKJV

 

[Jpsmith1]

I've made this offer to many people on here about this subject, you want to have a conversation and ask questions, shoot me a PM, well figure out a time to have a phone call. I'll answer anything I can, listen, and get answer for everything I don't know.

Just take what I'm about to say to heart and let it simmer if you will for a few hours or even days.
Your reference above about God being used as a babysitter tells me that like me, God and church, bring up some bad memories from childhood or times in your life, and unfortunately, they're not tied together, but emotionally we think they are. You have to separate those two.

This maybe a bit of an extreme example, but just follow me on this. My aunt gets a rescue horse in Minnesota, the horse is great, shows zero signs of abuse. Gets to the point after a few months she's even riding the horse, building trust, then one day the horse goes bat crap crazy. She can't figure it out, couple days go by, the horse is fine, then one day the horse goes crazy again. She finally figured it out, the orange can of fly spray. The fly spray isn't bad, it's actually helps the horse, but apparently the previous owner would use a can of fly spray to beat the hell out of the horse, so the horse got trained mentally and emotionally to think, fly spray is bad and when it saw a can of fly spray, get defensive. After some time, the horse adjust and figured the fly spray want going to hurt it anymore. It had to let go of that hurt from it's previous experiences, and move forward, forgive and forget.

You want to talk, let me know, be happy to figure out a time that works for both of us.

That comment definitely isn't in reference to some abuse. I've confronted the abuse I suffered and it wasn’t God related.

My father was an alcoholic with.anger management issues. To this day, the sound of a belt slipping through loops can freeze me in my tracks and put me in a very defensive posture.

I appreciate the offer. I've spoken with many people about this, and the arguments and ideas offered here are among the best presented and they don't meet the standard of evidence my mind requires.

 

[Jpsmith1]

@Jpsmith1
I’ll make the question very simple.

Are you willing to stand in front of God and answer for the way you lived your life? Are you sure you want to go to the end on your own understanding?

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said: “Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer Me. “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?”
‭‭Job‬ ‭38‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

I touched on this in one of my replies to you.

I will repeat it here.

‘Live a good life. If there are gods and they are good, they will not care how
devout you have been, but will welcome you because of the values you
have lived by. If there are gods that are not good, then you should not want
to worship them. If there are no gods at all, then you will be gone, but you
will have lived a noble life that will continue in the memories of your loved
ones. I am not afraid.’

Marcus Aurelius.

 

[go_deep]

That comment definitely isn't in reference to some abuse. I've confronted the abuse I suffered and it wasn’t God related.

My father was an alcoholic with.anger management issues. To this day, the sound of a belt slipping through loops can freeze me in my tracks and put me in a very defensive posture.

I appreciate the offer. I've spoken with many people about this, and the arguments and ideas offered here are among the best presented and they don't meet the standard of evidence my mind requires.

My friend, I will truly and honestly pray for you, and wish you all the best on your journey in life, wherever it may lead you.

 

[dylanvb]

I mean, 25 years of marriage has been a "proveable, reliable, repeatable and testable" thing, for sure. 2 or 3 surgeries for me and something like 17 for my wife, countless ups and down, sometimes at odds with one another like when I drew my "once in a lifetime" elk tag and got the phone call walking out the door to see my wife who was in ICU and damn near dead.

It's also observable. Others who know us have commented on it. Almost everyone within out friend group is divorced except us. People talk about things.

I see this as a testimony to the greatness of God. God has provided 25 years for you and your wife, you guys have beaten the odds.

The surgeries, the ups and downs, to me it’s all because of God you are still here and together and I pray for you and your family that this continues.

God has done many miracles in your life you just don’t see it.

You’re looking for the big thing, the undeniable. Reflect on your own life. Look for God in the small things.

But again I will remind you, just because life is good doesn’t mean you are good. God will hold of on judgement. He is holding off judgement of all of us.

 

[dylanvb]

I touched on this in one of my replies to you.

I will repeat it here.

‘Live a good life. If there are gods and they are good, they will not care how
devout you have been, but will welcome you because of the values you
have lived by. If there are gods that are not good, then you should not want
to worship them. If there are no gods at all, then you will be gone, but you
will have lived a noble life that will continue in the memories of your loved
ones. I am not afraid.’

Marcus Aurelius.

Don’t stand on the back of Marcus Aurelius. The questions was simple yes or no.

Marcus won’t save you when you face God.

The reason I keep asking this question is because regardless of your answer it ends this discussion.

If you can stand before God and answer for your life then good for you, like what @go_deep said I pray for you and your family that you find the peace you are all looking for.

 

[Jpsmith1]

My friend, I will truly and honestly pray for you, and wish you all the best on your journey in life, wherever it may lead you.

I didn't reject belief until I was a married adult with 2 children. I was pretty deeply nvolved in my community as a parent volunteer at school, a cub scout and later a boy scout leader and now my wife and I volunteer with groups that help.the homeless, under-served, abused and recovering addicts in our community. All in addition to a full time plus job managing refrigeration repairs for supermarkets across a large area encompassing as many as 20 counties in 3 states.

I stood at a catholic wedding and made my vows. I had doubts but I stood there. I wasn't catholic so I didn't take communion.

Again, my rejection of this begins and ends with an iterative process I started. Examine each idea in detail. Keep what works, reject or adjust what doesn't. Repeat continually.

Eventually, I got to the ideas I held about God and, well.... here I am.

 

[Jpsmith1]

Don’t stand on the back of Marcus Aurelius. The questions was simple yes or no.

Marcus won’t save you when you face God.

The reason I keep asking this question is because regardless of your answer it ends this discussion.

If you can stand before God and answer for your life then good for you, like what @go_deep

Then this discussion has ended.

 

[dylanvb]

This thread was started by a Bible verse and proclaiming the greatness of God.

I will go back to that.

Life is hard, God is good. He has and will continue to bless me. Every breath that I have will be to proclaim the greatness of God and what He has done in my life.

 

[Ballbearing]

I have nothing of substance to add, but wanted to thank the posters here who have expressed rational, logical and faithful responses. I have enjoyed reading the thoughts and perspectives provided and this has helped me greatly.