"The Best Killer Elk Rifles from a Guide's Perspective"

[SwiftShot]

Funny how people get all butt hurt on this one. Key words largest you can shoot accurately. If I was on the receiving end say a marginal shot like in a leg ect. I would rather be shot by a 243 than a 338. Key thing to remember is you must be able to hit where you aim. To many people think their 3 shot group at 100 yards is just awesome. Lets see that 10 shot group size. Those flyers you keep ignoring are part that group. Way too many people do not really have a accurate assessment of their rifle and themselves abilities.

 

[fwafwow]

SMH

 

[Ralphie]

Way too many people spend all their time on the range or culling operations and think that directly translates to successful hunting of elk, moose, or bears.

 

[JohnJohnson]

These guys dont hunt in the Alaskan bush on foot by themselves. Or pack moose meat out at night in brown bear country.

That's a safe bet given Alaska's population compared to the rest of the US. Also explains why the subject is elk rifles and not "pissed off charging grizzly rifles".

 

[LoggerDan]

But shouldn’t that little 223 piece up a bear? I mean, look at the wound channels…….you kinda made my point. What you carry means more when you have skin in the game

 

[roosiebull]

I would love for someone to please explain what this magical error that will happen that a big 30 or 338 somehow provides a better margin for over a 6 or 6.5.

You remember the MOAB and operation shock and awe?

 

[JohnJohnson]

But shouldn’t that little 223 piece up a bear? I mean, look at the wound channels…….you kinda made my point. What you carry means more when you have skin in the game

If you're taking a shot at a charging elk (?) you may need a bigger gun. Shooting a broadside elk is the same thing as a charging brown bear when you think about it so much that you lose your grip on reality.

 

[CobraChicken]

Since when have American men become frightened by 30’06’s and 300’s or Lord forbid it, a 338 or a 375?

Word. My 300 wby goes everywhere with me. Ol reliable has never let me down.

Shot it without a brake for years. I still don't understand the fascination with these small calibers for larger game. I don't even feel the recoil in the moment of the shot and I don't shoot bench.

 

[WCB]

The necessary energy to kill an elk is not my point. It's to argue against this idea that energy isn't important. There is some energy level required for that bullet to perform. The manufacturer has said xxxx fps for performance because at that velocity they've determined their bullet will perform upon impact. It performs because at that velocity there is enough energy transfered upon impact to result in performance of their bullet. It will not disintegrate and it will not punch through like an fmj but will expand as needed and penetrate leaving a devastating wound channel provided the object it hits isn't stout enough to resist, like say a solid chunk of concrete. That is irrelevant of the amount of energy to kill an elk.

Velocity doesn't open a bullet. If it did, it would explode when it leaves the barrel. Velocity is just part of an energy equation. There is no way around this need for the transfer of energy.

It's just simpler to express the velocity required.

I'm also not arguing against the 6.5 or any specific energy value, but energy is absolutely required.

I think the point is energy is not a sufficient measurement on lethality of a caliber. Yes it is a factor tied to velocity for specific bullet performance but not in the case of the discussion on caliber and if one is better than the other at killing elk.

 

[Leverwalker]

I don't think we are in disagreement about anything. But you did cherry pick the bullets since you were originally using the 110 and the 178 which are similar in the fact that they are the "factory standards" for each cartridge. You then jumped to the 133g and left the 308 at 180g. Make it the 215 Berge in the 308 at 2910 (my load) and the difference changes.

No matter what, the cartridge doesn't matter as long as it can deliver the proper bullet at an appropriate velocity for the range that it is being fired at. Practice lots, learn to call the wind, and hit where you aim.

Enough internet for a while. I'm going shooting. My Black Hills 77g TMK ammo finally arrived!

Jay

I admit I'm very limited in my ballistics understanding, but one of my rifles is a 45-70 Marlin gg travelling at about 1450 fps, tossing a 405 gr WFNGC, cast alloy stabilizing at around 18 BHN. I don't expect any expansion to speak of, but a wound channel that is basically the same diameter out as in (at .460, that's plenty, imo). I don't hunt this any longer than about 125-150 yards, which is all I need in our northwoods.

How would you guys with knowledge here say this plays, in terms of this discussion on velocity v. energy?

(Edit, I should add, that's for our northwoods on whitetails. For everything else, and I hope that includes at least a few western hunts before I shake off this mortal coil, I have a .338 WM).

 

[PNWGATOR]

These guys dont hunt in the Alaskan bush on foot by themselves. Or pack moose meat out at night in brown bear country.

An M4 loaded with 77 TMKs a LPV and a light would be ideal.

 

[PNWGATOR]

I really don’t understand the whole .223 as a elk cartridge, I do if done in a huge alfalfa field to lung punch and hope they will die in the field
I am a Roark & Taylor , Keith school of thought, use enough gun , .338, 35whelen, .300wm . Mainly because I hunt more nilgai then elk
but definitely won’t bother me to use a 25-06 , 270 , 7x57 , 8mm , @ normal ranges with heavy for caliber bullets, for a elk hunt

Lots of advantages to shooting bullets that deliver giant wound channels at the distances one intends to kill things with the highest hit rates possible.

 

[littlerhorner]

I feel like the whole .223/TMK thing has hit cult status. Not like the Goonies from the 80s was the best movie ever cult. More like let's all get together and work on space ship and then pound some Kool-aid cult.

 

[LoggerDan]

@PNWGATOR

nope, same action and same style and same model. Bolt action.

 

[Bubblehide]

I feel like the whole .223/TMK thing has hit cult status. Not like the Goonies from the 80s was the best movie ever cult. More like let's all get together and work on space ship and then pound some Kool-aid cult.

Except that the Goonies is total fiction, while .233/TMK is all proven science.

 

[hicountry1]

I'll take my 7stw, shooting 160np @ 3275 all day, every day on elk

BTDT

 

[Gutshot007]

Ok , back to the pellet gun above . Has anyone shot and elk with any of the large bore air rifles they make these days ? (Not sure about legal aspects)

 

[LongWayAround]

An M4 loaded with 77 TMKs a LPV and a light would be ideal.

I personally like the odds of a large magazine, low recoil, and short weapon length for a dense brush encounter. Plus, the potential to operate one handed...

Something about a .375 with a probably 24" barrel and three round magazine doesn't do it for me.

It reminds me of the argument where guys say you need a .454 Casul because a Glock just won't do.

 

[Shoot870p]

He killed the bear that killed him if I remember right.

I believe you are correct.

 

[Dark timber]

I can't believe anyone still reads those "reviews" and opinion pieces from the mainstream industry anymore. The only place you can get an honest review is forums or YT videos, and even with those you have to screen your sources.



There are trade-offs, it just might not matter to your style of hunting.

A .338 Win. Mag. with a magazine full of 250gr Partitions has advantages over a 6.5 whatever that is (likely) loaded with match or LR hunting bullets. It is just a fact that you will be able to take shots from bad angles with the .338 in the timber.

Most elk these days, however, are shot broadside or close to it, and most 6.5 hunters don't seem to spend much time in the timber, so for most elk hunting, there isn't a noticeable difference. It does exist.

The marketing behind the 6.5's and their alleged abilities has duped a lot of hunters into thinking the way you do, though.

That 338wm 250gr partition is the exact combo that was used by the guys who taugh me how to hunt elk on the thick WA coast, where your classic broadside isn’t always possible and you may have to take a hard quartering shot through a vine maple patch, because that’s all you’re gonna get. These guys killed piles of Roosevelt bulls and swear by the 338wm as elk hammer for the timber. They never lost a bull. We all shoot 300rum’s now, hunting bigger country.