"The Best Killer Elk Rifles from a Guide's Perspective"

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Linking to an article from Petersen's Hunting magazine and posted on the The Outdoor Channel website.

https://www.outdoorchannelplus.com/editorial/killer-elk-rifles/478520

This is the 3rd guide I've read or heard from espousing "bigger is better" approach to elk hunting. "Bring the biggest gun you can shoot accurately!" One intersting note is that he mentions reliability as a key factor in selecting your elk hunting rifle, and yet he doesn't have a single Tikka in the top 10, but includes the Mossberg Patriot that I haven't heard anything good about.

Also interesting when these authors mention, "...a buddy who's a ballistician..." for support of larger bore rifles. He also cites the "universally accepted" 1,500ft. lbs of energy minimum for shooting elk, and although the 6.5 PRC carries that much energy beyond 500 yards, it's still marginal. The final nail in the coffin may be the assertion that bigger cartridges provide, "a greater margin for error".

 

[BBob]

yet he doesn't have a single Tikka in the top 10.

The Horror!

 

[Hackleback]

A rifle/caliber you can shoot well is better than a spray-and-pray cannon.

 

[mtnwrunner]

And I'm fairly confident he was paid for that article.......just sayin.
Thank goodness we all have choices.

Randy

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

The Horror!

It is a horror when they include the Mossberg Patriot over any base Tikka.

 

[Mountainrancher]

I would love for someone to please explain what this magical error that will happen that a big 30 or 338 somehow provides a better margin for over a 6 or 6.5.

 

[CAElkhunter]

shoot the largest caliber you are comfortable with and shoot accurate.
If you choose a lesser caliber acknowledge the range limitations and live within them.
I believe you should understand the energy required to kill an elk and abide by it. You owe that
to the animal.

If you hit an Elk in the wrong place with any caliber you are in for a long day.

 

[LoggerDan]

Since when have American men become frightened by 30’06’s and 300’s or Lord forbid it, a 338 or a 375?

The biggest you shoot well is good sound advice for elk and moose.

I think dudes get kick shy because they spend too much time shooting from a bench, comparing one bullet against another thinking that a group a 16th of an inch smaller is somehow going to kill better, damned if the bullet is a cull weak design, be damned that there aren’t no benches out here in the bush, be damned that they seldom shoot offhand or from any field position with meaningful practice. Yes, in large animals, bigger is better.

 

[mtnbiker208]

what, the cool kids club rifles and calibers were not chosen. Blasphemy, just Blashemy!

 

[t_carlson]

I can't believe anyone still reads those "reviews" and opinion pieces from the mainstream industry anymore. The only place you can get an honest review is forums or YT videos, and even with those you have to screen your sources.

I would love for someone to please explain what this magical error that will happen that a big 30 or 338 somehow provides a better margin for over a 6 or 6.5.

There are trade-offs, it just might not matter to your style of hunting.

A .338 Win. Mag. with a magazine full of 250gr Partitions has advantages over a 6.5 whatever that is (likely) loaded with match or LR hunting bullets. It is just a fact that you will be able to take shots from bad angles with the .338 in the timber.

Most elk these days, however, are shot broadside or close to it, and most 6.5 hunters don't seem to spend much time in the timber, so for most elk hunting, there isn't a noticeable difference. It does exist.

The marketing behind the 6.5's and their alleged abilities has duped a lot of hunters into thinking the way you do, though.

 

[Mountainrancher]

Since when have American men become frightened by 30’06’s and 300’s or Lord forbid it, a 338 or a 375?

The biggest you shoot well is good sound advice for elk and moose.

I think dudes get kick shy because they spend too much time shooting from a bench, comparing one bullet against another thinking that a group a 16th of an inch smaller is somehow going to kill better, damned if the bullet is a cull weak design, be damned that there aren’t no benches out here in the bush, be damned that they seldom shoot offhand or from any field position with meaningful practice. Yes, in large animals, bigger is better.

Yep that’s exactly why I and many others on this forum have gone to a smaller lighter recoiling cartridge, because we’re scared of 30-06s. It has nothing to do with the dozen or so benefits of going to a lighter cartridge. It’s because we’re all a bunch of wussies.

 

[woods89]

You can either read these kind of articles, or.........


You can read the 223, 6mm, and 6.5/260 threads on this very site and see real wounds on real animals, with all kinds of different bullets, at all sorts of ranges, in the timber and in the open. Your choice.....

 

[Mountainrancher]

I can't believe anyone still reads those "reviews" and opinion pieces from the mainstream industry anymore. The only place you can get an honest review is forums or YT videos, and even with those you have to screen your sources.



There are trade-offs, it just might not matter to your style of hunting.

A .338 Win. Mag. with a magazine full of 250gr Partitions has advantages over a 6.5 whatever that is (likely) loaded with match or LR hunting bullets. It is just a fact that you will be able to take shots from bad angles with the .338 in the timber.

Most elk these days, however, are shot broadside or close to it, and most 6.5 hunters don't seem to spend much time in the timber, so for most elk hunting, there isn't a noticeable difference. It does exist.

The marketing behind the 6.5's and their alleged abilities has duped a lot of hunters into thinking the way you do, though.

I can assure you that the abilities are not “alleged”

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Seeing that the 223 thread is such a success, I thought maybe I would start one for the Creedmoor/260. Seems like people are asking a lot about using them and various bullets, especially for elk. I've used mine for the last few years almost exclusively. I have some pics of bullet damage, albeit...

rokslide.com

 

[woods89]

I can assure you that the abilities are not “alleged”

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Seeing that the 223 thread is such a success, I thought maybe I would start one for the Creedmoor/260. Seems like people are asking a lot about using them and various bullets, especially for elk. I've used mine for the last few years almost exclusively. I have some pics of bullet damage, albeit...

rokslide.com

Amusingly enough, the first post in that thread has a bull killed very quickly in the timber with a 6.5 CM. Crazy......

 

[t_carlson]

I can assure you that the abilities are not “alleged”

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Seeing that the 223 thread is such a success, I thought maybe I would start one for the Creedmoor/260. Seems like people are asking a lot about using them and various bullets, especially for elk. I've used mine for the last few years almost exclusively. I have some pics of bullet damage, albeit...

rokslide.com

I never said 6.5's were bad elk cartridges, but it is a simple-to-understand fact that they are not the equivalent of heavier chamberings.

I appreciate you trying to twist my words into the direction you want to drag the conversation, though. Don't worry, I'll course correct.

Amusingly enough, the first post in that thread has a bull killed very quickly in the timber with a 6.5 CM. Crazy......

Amusingly enough, nobody ever stated in this thread that it couldn't be done. Crazy.....

 

[woods89]

I never said 6.5's were bad elk cartridges, but it is a simple-to-understand fact that they are not the equivalent of heavier chamberings.

I appreciate you trying to twist my words into the direction you want to drag the conversation, though. Don't worry, I'll course correct.



Amusingly enough, nobody ever stated in this thread that it couldn't be done. Crazy.....

You did tell us that most 6.5 guys don't spend a lot of time in the timber. Just one data point to the contrary.........

 

[cmahoney]

Linking to an article from Petersen's Hunting magazine and posted on the The Outdoor Channel website.

https://www.outdoorchannelplus.com/editorial/killer-elk-rifles/478520

This is the 3rd guide I've read or heard from espousing "bigger is better" approach to elk hunting. "Bring the biggest gun you can shoot accurately!" One intersting note is that he mentions reliability as a key factor in selecting your elk hunting rifle, and yet he doesn't have a single Tikka in the top 10, but includes the Mossberg Patriot that I haven't heard anything good about.

Also interesting when these authors mention, "...a buddy who's a ballistician..." for support of larger bore rifles. He also cites the "universally accepted" 1,500ft. lbs of energy minimum for shooting elk, and although the 6.5 PRC carries that much energy beyond 500 yards, it's still marginal. The final nail in the coffin may be the assertion that bigger cartridges provide, "a greater margin for error".

Guys that don’t know shit about rifles shouldn’t write articles about them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

shoot the largest caliber you are comfortable with and shoot accurate.
If you choose a lesser caliber acknowledge the range limitations and live within them.
I believe you should understand the energy required to kill an elk and abide by it. You owe that
to the animal.

If you hit an Elk in the wrong place with any caliber you are in for a long day.

.25-06 with 115 grain VLD hunter at 3150 FPS MV.

Range- 500​

Velocity- 2434​

Energy- 1513​

Are these numbers good enough? Or are my .308 numbers below better with it's .051" larger frontal area for greater margin of error?

.308 with 175 grain Federal Terminal Ascent at 2600 FPS MV

Range- 500​

Velocity- 1988​

Energy- 1535​

EDIT: Adding a popular .30-06 elk load for comparison

.30-06 with 180 grain partition at 2700 FPS MV

Range- 500​

Velocity- 1837​

Energy- 1348​

If a guy wants to add the .300 mag or .338 win mag to the table, velocity and energy are better than the .308 and .30-06. However, without a muzzle device they also deliver punishing recoil which leads to less practice and lower hit percentage. As EVERYONE on here agrees, shot placement is everything, and shooting a caliber with lower recoil increases hit percentage, because it is more comfortable to shoot.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I would love for someone to please explain what this magical error that will happen that a big 30 or 338 somehow provides a better margin for over a 6 or 6.5.

.044" or .074" bigger entry hole. Huge advantage.

 

[LoggerDan]

I do know that Wayne Van Zwoll has forgotten more about elk and elk hunting than a lot of us have ever known.