The 22 creedmoor thread

[ChrisAU]

What bullet and impact velocity?

75 gr ELDM, about 3090 per Revic app at a whole 45 yards. Had a pencil hole that poured blood out when picked up and his neck/spine was 100% completely severed but no exit at all. Every bit of that bullet hit vertebrae. Didn’t take pics but a surprising amount of the neck meat was just fine.

Maybe video will work:

https://imgur.com/zHVnMCp

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

75 gr ELDM, about 3090 per Revic app at a whole 45 yards. Had a pencil hole that poured blood out when picked up and his neck/spine was 100% completely severed but no exit at all. Every bit of that bullet hit vertebrae. Didn’t take pics but a surprising amount of the neck meat was just fine.

Maybe video will work:

https://imgur.com/zHVnMCp

Yeah man those shots can be devastating depending on angle. My wife shot a doe this year, she was looking at us with nose up sniffing us. The 80 ELDX went it and didn’t exit either. Doe acted like she was struck by lighting.

 

[T28w]

I’ve seen a bunch that shoot them well. Haven’t tried them in mine.

How much is to be gained with the 88 elds vs the 77 tmk out of a 22-250 inside of 400 yards? I’m close to pulling the trigger on a 22-250 that I will probably convert to a gt when barrel is done but I’ll be a little disappointed if it wont shoot the 88’s as I already have a RSS shooting the 77tmks

 

[ChrisAU]

Yeah man those shots can be devastating depending on angle. My wife shot a doe this year, she was looking at us with nose up sniffing us. The 80 ELDX went it and didn’t exit either. Doe acted like she was struck by lighting.

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I’ve never been a fan of a side profile neck shot but now in two weeks I’ve taken two mature whitetail bucks with throat shots with them facing me at short range and it’s almost quicker than lightning. High shoulder has been on my mind with this 22 Creed as I learn it and work on trusting it but just so happens I was given two picturesque throat shots and I’m not sure why I’d venture from it. Not much room for error but with one of these super low recoil laser beams at short distance why not. Definitely one of the most fun rifles I’ve ever had. Bullet goes where you want it to and you get to see it go there. I’m fully on the 22 bandwagon.

 

[ChrisAU]

Yeah man those shots can be devastating depending on angle. My wife shot a doe this year, she was looking at us with nose up sniffing us. The 80 ELDX went it and didn’t exit either. Doe acted like she was struck by lighting.

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What distance and impact velocity there?

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

What distance and impact velocity there?

208 yards. Roughly 2740.

 

[Juan_ID]

Any concerns shooting the 80 ELDm vs 80 ELDx on big game? I'm planning on using my 22-250AI that shoots the 80 ELDm @3200 fps this spring for black bear. From past experience shots will be 250-600.

We shot 3 animals with the 80 eldm out of a 22GT. Explanations below.

First animal with them hit far back, 300 yards ~2750 impact velocity, stumbled about 10 yards and laid down, next shot from about 250 impact velocity of ~2820 buck was bedded quartered to pretty hard, hit shoulder and didn’t move. But 15-20 minutes later needed another shot as he was still alive but immobilized.

Second one was my wife’s deer at 215 yards, impact velocity of ~2880 hit too far fwd at tip of shoulder while buck was bedded slightly quartered away, second shot was right behind the shoulder and buck died in less than 10 seconds. Traveled less than 15 yards after first shot.

Third was a wolf at 500 yards with an impact velocity of ~2425, hit in the shoulder on entrance side and exited just behind shoulder, didn’t move at all.

Used eldx’s on a 2 other animals mixed between the 3 above but upon shooting them more they do not shoot near as well as the eldm’s do in my rifle. Not near enough info for me to 100% draw a conclusion on the m’s so planning to use them next year again.

 

[Miflatlander91]

Not much science here but I think I’m gonna stick with the throat when given that shot. It’s working extremely well with very very little meat loss. Put on my waders today and hiked in to my favorite whitetail spot on the planet. Once again it did not dissapoint.

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That is a beautiful rifle… carry on


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mwoolsey5]

Hey all, just found this thread and am exploring smaller caliber bullets for use on big game. Trying to decide what to build for mule deer and elk hunting out west. I hope these questions are taken in good faith, I am new to all this and trying to be open and learn from those with experience.

1. Any downside to a shorter barrel besides FPS loss? I plan on shooting with a suppressor, but does a shorter barrel have problems stabilizing heavier for caliber bullets like the 88 ELD-M’s?

• I saw one posted mentioned that shorter barrels are louder. Should this be a factor when selecting barrel length or is it just a small increase?

2. Will a 1:7 twist rate still allow me to shoot the lighter bullets out of the 22 CM or cause problems? Is there any downside to going with a 1:7 twist vs a 1:8?

• What twist are you using on your 223 to shoot the 77 TMK's?

3. Does a hot rod like the 22 CM still burn barrels if the shorter barrel does not allow it to get to those higher speeds (16" barrel shooting at 2900 vs 24" shooting 3400+)?

4. I see the question asked a lot, but haven’t really seen an answer, what would you anticipate as the average barrel life of the 22 CM compared to the 223 shooting the same bullet (77 TMK’s or 80 ELD-X for example)?

5. Does the higher speed of the 22 CM cause too much damage? I like how flat the 22 CM shoots, but I am concerned about it being “too fast” and destroying more meat than needed. Some of the pictures I have seen are eye opening destruction with baseball-basketball sized chunks missing. I am trying to find that balance between killing them as quickly as possible while minimizing meat loss.

• Does the 223 cause just as much meat damage as the 22 CM or does the lower velocity help it not overly destroy tissue?
• If I am on a once in a lifetime hunt, how or what do I do to preserve the hide for taxidermy purposes without sacrificing terminal performance?
• Would there be better cartridge or bullet I should be considering that balances killing quickly and meat preservation?

6. Would you consider it a high maintenance cartridge (lot of cleaning?)

7. One of my local gunsmiths uses a lot of Proof Research carbon wrapped barrel blanks. I have never owned one, should I consider using one or stick with standard steel?

8. Why would you pick the 22 CM over the 223 or other cartridges?

 

[Formidilosus]

Hey all, just found this thread and am exploring smaller caliber bullets for use on big game. Trying to decide what to build for mule deer and elk hunting out west. I hope these questions are taken in good faith, I am new to all this and trying to be open and learn from those with experience.

1. Any downside to a shorter barrel besides FPS loss? I plan on shooting with a suppressor, but does a shorter barrel have problems stabilizing heavier for caliber bullets like the 88 ELD-M’s?

• I saw one posted mentioned that shorter barrels are louder. Should this be a factor when selecting barrel length or is it just a small increase?

No. Suppressed, it’s just FPS loss functionally.

2. Will a 1:7 twist rate still allow me to shoot the lighter bullets out of the 22 CM or cause problems? Is there any downside to going with a 1:7 twist vs a 1:8?

Yes. 1:7.5” is probably the best overall option.

• What twist are you using on your 223 to shoot the 77 TMK's?

1:8”

3. Does a hot rod like the 22 CM still burn barrels if the shorter barrel does not allow it to get to those higher speeds (16" barrel shooting at 2900 vs 24" shooting 3400+)?

Yes. It’s throat wear; not land and groove wear.

4. I see the question asked a lot, but haven’t really seen an answer, what would you anticipate as the average barrel life of the 22 CM compared to the 223 shooting the same bullet (77 TMK’s or 80 ELD-X for example)?

Depends on how you define barrel “life”? What is your criteria for saying a barrel is shot out?

For functional precision (sub 2moa), the 22CM is between 1,500-2,000 rounds (or more) if not shot smoking hot all the time. The 223 is functionally near unlimited.

5. Does the higher speed of the 22 CM cause too much damage? I like how flat the 22 CM shoots, but I am concerned about it being “too fast” and destroying more meat than needed. Some of the pictures I have seen are eye opening destruction with baseball-basketball sized chunks missing. I am trying to find that balance between killing them as quickly as possible while minimizing meat loss.

Higher impact velocity does destroy more tissue- including meat.

• Does the 223 cause just as much meat damage as the 22 CM or does the lower velocity help it not overly destroy tissue?

Using the same bullet, lower impact velocity does not cause as much tissue damage as higher.

• If I am on a once in a lifetime hunt, how or what do I do to preserve the hide for taxidermy purposes without sacrificing terminal performance?

Won’t be an issue with either.

Would there be better cartridge or bullet I should be considering that balances killing quickly and meat preservation?

There is no magic. Less tissue damage= longer time to incapacitation. More tissue damage= less time to incapacitation.

6. Would you consider it a high maintenance cartridge (lot of cleaning?)

No. Not one person I know and shoot with, out of dozens of 22cm’s ever clean. Don’t get stupid or cut with chambering/throating and loads and it’s not an issue.

7. One of my local gunsmiths uses a lot of Proof Research carbon wrapped barrel blanks. I have never owned one, should I consider using one or stick with standard steel?

Carbon barrels look cool. In every other metric they are a worse choice than steel.

8. Why would you pick the 22 CM over the 223 or other cartridges?

Longer terminal range and less wind drift.

 

[T_Widdy]

Hey all, just found this thread and am exploring smaller caliber bullets for use on big game. Trying to decide what to build for mule deer and elk hunting out west. I hope these questions are taken in good faith, I am new to all this and trying to be open and learn from those with experience.

Some western states have a minimum caliber of .243. That would be the only issue if you care to follow the regulations.

 

[gotlag1789]

No. Suppressed, it’s just FPS loss functionally.




Yes. 1:7.5” is probably the best overall option.




1:8”





Yes. It’s throat wear; not land and groove wear.




Depends on how you define barrel “life”? What is your criteria for saying a barrel is shot out?

For functional precision (sub 2moa), the 22CM is between 1,500-2,000 rounds (or more) if not shot smoking hot all the time. The 223 is functionally near unlimited.





Higher impact velocity does destroy more tissue- including meat.




Using the same bullet, lower impact velocity does not cause as much tissue damage as higher.




Won’t be an issue with either.






There is no magic. Less tissue damage= longer time to incapacitation. More tissue damage= less time to incapacitation.




No. Not one person I know and shoot with, out of dozens of 22cm’s ever clean. Don’t get stupid or cut with chambering/throating and loads and it’s not an issue.






Carbon barrels look cool. In every other metric they are a worse choice than steel.




Longer terminal range and less wind drift.

Thanks Form. Was also curious on a few of these Qs. Ive just been reading/lurking.

Appreciate you

 

[Grizzle]

@Formidilosus could you expand on this a bit
No. Not one person I know and shoot with, out of dozens of 22cm’s ever clean. Don’t get stupid or cut with chambering/throating and loads and it’s not an issue.

I'm waiting on having my barrel chamberd and planned on having it throated for a 88eldm dummy round with bullet pushed out to have the end of bearing surface/boattail lined up with neck shoulder junction.
Is there a downside to doing this over a saami throat? First I've heard that getting cute as you put it with chambering and throating causing a problem?
Any info regarding this would be very appreciated before my chamber gets cut.
Thanks

 

[NoDakhunter]

@Formidilosus could you expand on this a bit
No. Not one person I know and shoot with, out of dozens of 22cm’s ever clean. Don’t get stupid or cut with chambering/throating and loads and it’s not an issue.

I'm waiting on having my barrel chamberd and planned on having it throated for a 88eldm dummy round with bullet pushed out to have the end of bearing surface/boattail lined up with neck shoulder junction.
Is there a downside to doing this over a saami throat? First I've heard that getting cute as you put it with chambering and throating causing a problem?
Any info regarding this would be very appreciated before my chamber gets cut.
Thanks

I’m also curious. I had a tikka rechambered a year ago and I have no idea on the free bore specs. I shoot 75 ELDM at 2.63 COAL with no issues. I haven’t tried shooting anything else. Essentially a longer freebore/throat allows you to seat bullets out longer before reaching the lands? Am I understanding that correctly?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus could you expand on this a bit

“Cute” means-

Tight/minimum spec chambers, bullets into or close to the lands, neck sizing only, loading “until pressure signs”, etc.


Full length resize, keep bullets off the lands; load functional, normal pressure book loads, etc.- and issues are extremely, extremely rare.

No. Not one person I know and shoot with, out of dozens of 22cm’s ever clean. Don’t get stupid or cut with chambering/throating and loads and it’s not an issue.

I'm waiting on having my barrel chamberd and planned on having it throated for a 88eldm dummy round with bullet pushed out to have the end of bearing surface/boattail lined up with neck shoulder junction.
Is there a downside to doing this over a saami throat? First I've heard that getting cute as you put it with chambering and throating causing a problem?
Any info regarding this would be very appreciated before my chamber gets cut.
Thanks

 

[waspocrew]

I already have a 22 CM (Zermatt TL3 and Bartlein), but I'm pretty positive I'll be picking up a 1:8 22-250 Tikka to have rechambered to 22 CM.

For those that went this route, would you do it again? I'd have to ask some local MT smiths regarding price, but curious to hear what it cost you to rechamber, cut and thread?

 

[Lawnboi]

@Formidilosus could you expand on this a bit
No. Not one person I know and shoot with, out of dozens of 22cm’s ever clean. Don’t get stupid or cut with chambering/throating and loads and it’s not an issue.

I'm waiting on having my barrel chamberd and planned on having it throated for a 88eldm dummy round with bullet pushed out to have the end of bearing surface/boattail lined up with neck shoulder junction.
Is there a downside to doing this over a saami throat? First I've heard that getting cute as you put it with chambering and throating causing a problem?
Any info regarding this would be very appreciated before my chamber gets cut.
Thanks

The only real downside to having a chamber cut specifically for a long loaded 88 is that if your barrel dosnt care for the 88, you may have a more difficult time with others .

22 creed dosnt have powder capacity issues where more room in the case is needed. And with a short barrel life it’s likely that doughnuts will not become a problem. The risks of a longer freebore just don’t seem worth it.

Something around .120 should be able to shoot everything from 62 eld vt to 88eldm.

 

[Grizzle]

“Cute” means-

Tight/minimum spec chambers, bullets into or close to the lands, neck sizing only, loading “until pressure signs”, etc.


Full length resize, keep bullets off the lands; load functional, normal pressure book loads, etc.- and issues are extremely, extremely rare.

Ok that all sounds super reasonable, I was thinking you had an issue with longer than saami Freebore which had me curious but I misunderstood. Thanks for the clarity appreciate it.

 

[david2duck]

I already have a 22 CM (Zermatt TL3 and Bartlein), but I'm pretty positive I'll be picking up a 1:8 22-250 Tikka to have rechambered to 22 CM.

For those that went this route, would you do it again? I'd have to ask some local MT smiths regarding price, but curious to hear what it cost you to rechamber, cut and thread?

I’d expect to pay around $375 give or take for a chamber and a cut/thread. Then you might have shipping if using a non local smith. We did a tikka for my dad and would definitely do it again. My buddy liked it so much he’s shipping one off in a week.

 

[Fever Buck]

No. Suppressed, it’s just FPS loss functionally.




Yes. 1:7.5” is probably the best overall option.




1:8”





Yes. It’s throat wear; not land and groove wear.




Depends on how you define barrel “life”? What is your criteria for saying a barrel is shot out?

For functional precision (sub 2moa), the 22CM is between 1,500-2,000 rounds (or more) if not shot smoking hot all the time. The 223 is functionally near unlimited.





Higher impact velocity does destroy more tissue- including meat.




Using the same bullet, lower impact velocity does not cause as much tissue damage as higher.




Won’t be an issue with either.






There is no magic. Less tissue damage= longer time to incapacitation. More tissue damage= less time to incapacitation.




No. Not one person I know and shoot with, out of dozens of 22cm’s ever clean. Don’t get stupid or cut with chambering/throating and loads and it’s not an issue.






Carbon barrels look cool. In every other metric they are a worse choice than steel.




Longer terminal range and less wind drift.

Form, would you mind listing out the negatives of carbon compared to steel? Don’t think I’ve seen you post about it before but know Rokslide generally sides with you on that.