The 22 creedmoor thread

[B_Reynolds_AK]

If a gun company is offering properly nitrided guns from the OEM then it’s a great option, especially for very harsh coastal environments or heavy use users.

Having Joe Blow Tacticool Coatings nitride your barreled action is where the issues can arise.

So nitriding a barrel means the rifling as well, not just the exterior of the barrel like a Cerakote?

 

[Nine Banger]

So nitriding a barrel means the rifling as well, not just the exterior of the barrel like a Cerakote?

I didn't research the process but based on observations receiving the end product it seems like they are packing the parts into a crystalline compound and heating it up.

I had to take the bolt back apart to get it to work correctly and use a drill bit to pull more of this stuff out of the blind hole the ejector and spring go into so I would think the powder they use goes all the way thru the barrel too.

 

[ACHILLES]

So nitriding a barrel means the rifling as well, not just the exterior of the barrel like a Cerakote?

Yes

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

So nitriding a barrel means the rifling as well, not just the exterior of the barrel like a Cerakote?

Correct, "coating" was a bad word as it's not a coating but an absorption process.

Generally speaking and when done properly, nitriding will increase abrasive resistance and increase hardness extending the lifetime of the metal.

The ability to properly control the process and have a finished product that meets spec is overlooked/ignored by many companies offering the service.

 

[BBob]

it seems like they are packing the parts into a crystalline compound and heating it up.

It's already a molten solution (liquid salt) when they put the parts in. It's a big hot tank and the parts baskets get lowered into the solution.

 

[Nine Banger]

It's already a molten solution (liquid salt) when they put the parts in. It's a big hot tank and the parts baskets get lowered into the solution.

That makes sense, so the stuff I was looking at formed back into a solid as it cooled or the liquid evaporated?

 

[BBob]

That makes sense, so the stuff I was looking at formed back into a solid as it cooled or the liquid evaporated?

Not sure what you were looking at. Just like traditional bluing salts it would re-solidify once cooled. There is no liquid per se to evaporate, it's literally melted salts. It's done in big cylindrical furnaces that get heated up to melt the crystallized salts. Once the crystallized salt is melted it will forma solid block when cooled. I doubt they are cooling and reheating the furnaces too often if at all.

 

[Skerhunter]

22 Creed got upgraded this week - Rokstock with mdt hunting bottom metal. Got to shoot some tonight looking forward to more practice this weekend!

 

[hereinaz]

if just shooting factory 80 grain ELDMs does the SAAMI .081 or .120 FB work better or it doesn't matter.

Factory load left, my hand load on the right in a .120 throat.

There’s a thread with OP asking about it and I posted OAL for both.

 

[Scooby-93]

I believe you have found your answer, only .0015 clearance between a loaded and fired case.
That will explain the early pressure signs

Unfired:



View attachment 877639View attachment 877640


Fired:



View attachment 877641View attachment 877642

Loaded Neck:


View attachment 877643

 

[Castle Rock]

I believe you have found your answer, only .0015 clearance between a loaded and fired case.
That will explain the early pressure signs

Which dimension are you referring to, and what is s the reasoning behind that?

 

[Scooby-93]

Which dimension are you referring to, and what is s the reasoning behind that?

His loaded round is .2555 so that’s either .255 or .256 especially since it’s been necked down 2 calibres and not turned.

Fired case is .257 so assuming chamber is .257-.258

I am speaking from experience when using lapua 6cm necked down, once the brass was turned for more clearance no more pressure issues and low velocity

 

[Nine Banger]

His loaded round is .2555 so that’s either .255 or .256 especially since it’s been necked down 2 calibres and not turned.

Fired case is .257 so assuming chamber is .257-.258

I am speaking from experience when using lapua 6cm necked down, once the brass was turned for more clearance no more pressure issues and low velocity

When I made it I used some short 6.5cm brass and after the FL sizing I had to trim a lot off the necks.

If the sizing die limits the outward size and the expander ball limits the neck size, did the extra material not flow up and away?

 

[Nine Banger]

When I made it I used some short 6.5cm brass and after the FL sizing I had to trim a lot off the necks.

If the sizing die limits the outward size and the expander ball limits the next size, did the extra material not flow up and away?

I had to trim the once fired and twice fired too...now its stable.

 

[wind gypsy]

When I made it I used some short 6.5cm brass and after the FL sizing I had to trim a lot off the necks.

If the sizing die limits the outward size and the expander ball limits the neck size, did the extra material not flow up and away?

I dont understand your question. He's saying your necks are too thick and dont offer enough clearance in your chamber. That is common when necking down as all of the material from the necks gets moved into a smaller diameter and thus gets thicker.

 

[Nine Banger]

I dont understand your question. He's saying your necks are too thick and dont offer enough clearance in your chamber. That is common when necking down as all of the material from the necks gets moved into a smaller diameter and thus gets thicker.

Yeah but I was thinking without trying to be contrary: If the sizing die controls the outside diameter and the sizing ball controls the inner diameter, where is the extra space for the brass to be thicker at the neck?

I figured its shooting up into the void and getting trimmed off and saw evidence to support that.

 

[wind gypsy]

Yeah but I was thinking without trying to be contrary: If the sizing die controls the outside diameter and the sizing ball controls the inner diameter, where is the extra space for the brass to be thicker at the neck?

The squeezing of the outer and expanding with the ball dont happen at the same time so they aren't controlling inner/outer diameter together.

I imagine when the neck is being sized down, some of the material goes forward (lengthening) and some of it just gets thicker.

 

[huntnful]

The squeezing of the outer and expanding with the ball dont happen at the same time so they aren't controlling inner/outer diameter together.

I imagine when the neck is being sized down, some of the material goes forward (lengthening) and some of it just gets thicker.

From my experience it gets forced down to where the shoulder/neck meet as well. It’s called a “doughnut”. Some are just more extreme than others. But all the cartridges I neck down have a small size discrepancy in that area that you can measure with calipers.

 

[Scooby-93]

When I made it I used some short 6.5cm brass and after the FL sizing I had to trim a lot off the necks.

If the sizing die limits the outward size and the expander ball limits the neck size, did the extra material not flow up and away?

If you aren’t set up for neck turning or have the knowledge then I’d suggest buying proper head stamped 22creed brass ie alpha - then you will be good to go.

Sounds like you are leaving a lot of the creed performance on the table with your current set up.

 

[Scooby-93]

Yeah but I was thinking without trying to be contrary: If the sizing die controls the outside diameter and the sizing ball controls the inner diameter, where is the extra space for the brass to be thicker at the neck?

I figured its shooting up into the void and getting trimmed off and saw evidence to support that.

What evidence do you have to show that the thickness increases at the case mouth and can be trimmed off?