“The 22 Creedmoor Project”

[barehandlineman]

Im just glad to see you doing some sort of load work

 

[mddat]

If you wouldn’t mind sharing, what is your process for once fired brass as well? Also will you be doing any type of load development, like testing different powder charges or seating depths or is this mostly about testing different case prep. Thanks for doing this, will be following along

 

[huntnful]

If you wouldn’t mind sharing, what is your process for once fired brass as well? Also will you be doing any type of load development, like testing different powder charges or seating depths or is this mostly about testing different case prep. Thanks for doing this, will be following along

I’ll absolutely be testing different seating depths, charge weights and even powders at some point.

The brass prep testing is just a quick and dirty one and done type test to kick it off.

My current fired brass prep is..

De-prime
Imperial Lube case
FL size
Wipe off lube
Bush/moly necks.
Expand with mandrel
Prime

Something I normally do once all my brass is once fire though, is run it all through the Henderson trimmer before I FL size, to the get the COAL’s all exactly the same. Then I don’t trim them again generally.

 

[Oddfellow]

Any idea when any of the big name companies such as Ruger, Savage, Tikka, and the like might be putting rifles out in this caliber? I want one, but I would like to have one as a truck gun for coyotes and other varmints.

 

[mddat]

Something I normally do once all my brass is once fire though, is run it all through the Henderson trimmer before I FL size, to the get the COAL’s all exactly the same. Then I don’t trim them again generally.

Interesting, I always assumed the case might stretch a bit after sizing so I’ve just FL sized then trimmed and chamfered, thats just the way I was taught and never thought about it differently though

 

[huntnful]

Interesting, I always assumed the case might stretch a bit after sizing so I’ve just FL sized then trimmed and chamfered, thats just the way I was taught and never thought about it differently though

Yeah, if it’s consistent before, it’ll be consistent after. In my instance, all cases trimmed to match and then sized the same. The opposite is also true. Could easy do it the other way around as far as consistency is concerned.

I am not trimming them to fit the chamber, if that’s what you’re referring to though. I am just uniforming them. Grab 10-15 cases, find the shortest one, and trim it .001. Then run them all at that trimmer setting. Now all the neck lengths and COALs are the same. They don’t get anywhere near binding the tip of the case neck into the end of the chamber from what I’ve seen after many firings.


Another reason I trim primer to sizing is specifically because of the Henderson. It has a dowel that fits inside the case neck to keep it concentric enough while trimming. If I size first, that dowel has a very tight fit inside the neck and scratches the inside quite a bit.

 

[WKR]

What I’m calling the 22 creedmoor project, has started.

The gun was built by @barehandlineman at High Voltage Armory.

1-8 twist 24” Heavy Palma Muller Works
Defiance SA HVA Exodus Action
MDT XRS Chassis
Bix N Andy tac sport pro trigger
Area 419 Hunt Rings. .94”
Trijicon Tenmile HX 5-25X50 MOA FFP

Scoped rifle weighs 14.56lbs. No muzzle threads.

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This is just a data collection driven project. I will document as much as I can and share openly. Nothing hidden or knit picked.

I really want to personally learn as much as I can about shooting (especially positional and building effective positions) & reloading and what affects what, and by how much (if any). Also barrel life/wear and how it affects speeds/groups as the shot count grows.

I used my normal virgin brass prep and a load that worked well in my last barrel and loaded up 50 rounds. This is my “Control” load and groups. A generic baseline basically.

Alpha LRP brass
80 ELDM
41gr. H4350
CCI 200
2.660” COAL

I bore sighted the gun. Shot 3. Adjusted over. Shot 10. Aim point was black “X”.
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I adjust right 1/4 and down 1/2. Scrubbed the barrel clean. Shot some foulers out of the group. Then shot 20 straight rounds for a group. No breaks other than swapping mags. This is my control group for future comparisons when testing.
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I then went to 471 yards and shot 10 for a group to see how the load held up. There was a 5-10 MPH wind the whole range session. I did not hold for wind intentionally, so that I wouldn’t shoot out my aim point. Just testing the loads precision at a decent distance. It is trending high, but I’ll correct the data at 800-1000 yards later on.
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Every one of these rounds was weighed within 1 kernel on an A&D FX 120i scale. This was the ES & SD over 25 rounds in virgin brass.
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I have 500 pieces of the same lot of Virgin alpha brass. An 8lb of H4350. 1100 80 ELDMS of the same lot number. So testing can be consistent throughout.
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A lot of this testing will be done for myself and my own curiosities. But I’m also considering this a community 22 CM. So if you have valid interests that you would like to see tested, and they’re reasonable to do, please share them and I’ll try to accommodate those interests as well!!

Also these new area 419 rings seem absolutely first class.
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All animals you see killed in CA were shot with a random copper load . Just close range coyotes mostly in the future. All practing and target shooting will be mostly with 80 ELDM’s.

FYI, the chassis and donkey dick of a barrel were just selected because they were cheap, and available lol. Chassis seems nice to shoot behind and has a comfortable grip. Definitely plastic feeling and flimsy feeling. But I’m honestly not that critical of things anyways. It seems nice enough for $550.

Very cool!
I'm a still waiting on my 22 cal barrel blank to put mine together.

Couple questions, what made you skip over the 88's or even the Berger 85's?

Which reamer/freebore did you choose?


Also, I don't know if you run the SAC modular sizer but If you want to save time and remove a step, their sizer with a mandrel is really sweet. I've tested it for SD and ES as well as seating force with alpha creedmoor brass and there was no observable difference between the SAC die w/mandrel and running an expander mandrel as a final step before seating.

 

[huntnful]

Very cool!
I'm a still waiting on my 22 cal barrel blank to put mine together.

Couple questions, what made you skip over the 88's or even the Berger 85's?

Which reamer/freebore did you choose?


Also, I don't know if you run the SAC modular sizer but If you want to save time and remove a step, their sizer with a mandrel is really sweet. I've tested it for SD and ES as well as seating force with alpha creedmoor brass and there was no observable difference between the SAC die w/mandrel and running an expander mandrel as a final step before seating.

I went to the 80’s because I like ELDM’s and 1-8 twist barrels was all that was available. I also like speed, and I don’t plan to hunt big game animals with it. Just coyotes and pigs.

Really appreciate that info man!! I do have the SAC creedmoor die and will more than likely go that route, or possible no expansion step at all!

Chamber has about an .080 - .090 freebore roughly. Freebore was added separately. So it’s not exact. Baseline reamer freebore was .060.

 

[huntnful]

Shot 5 foulers.

And then tested the different brass prep types. I don’t really like shooting at 100 yards when I’m testing things. I would have much preferred to actually do this test at 500 yards, but the winds were vicious today. Groups were shot from top to bottom at 254 yards. Top one is “control” group so to say.



Summary…. Basically prep virgin brass however you want . I don’t like that the dry mandrel scratches the necks, but a .3 difference on target due to one bullet, really doesn’t show it to have a super negative effect at all as far as the target is concerned. Although that is the first 1 MOA “group” the gun has produced in the last 100 rounds.

The no prep case shot great, but had a high ES. I think by just brushing that neck, with no extra prep work, that it would have lowered that ES and maintained excellent groups. It will be tested in the future.




Next is the vibratory tumble prepped brass. It shot excellent and did prove to lower the ES & SD slightly. That was cool to see. But personally, it’s quite a bit more work than just brushing the necks and still seeing excellent results. So I won’t personally do it, but it was a very good and productive test! Thank you @T_Widdy for the suggestion!!

This was a 10 shot zero check with the vibratory prepped brass. There was a full value 10-12 MPH left wind.



Then checking drops at 619 and 764 yards with the last 10 rounds of vibratory prepped cases. Produced excellent groups. Great vertical dispersion. Still trending high with impacts. Will definitely need to adjust calculator and bring impacts down. This was also a full value 10-12 MPH coming from 9 o clock. I did not re-correct for wind once the first bullet impacted. I just needed them on the plate to verify water line and groups.


Garmin picked up 19 of the 20 rounds. Here’s those results. Quite a bit faster than original prepped load. Will check and see if that was from difference in brass prep or not, later on.


Great evening of testing and answering my own questions, as well as hopefully some questions others may have had.

You’ll definitely notice the increase in speeds throughout the test day. I’m not sure if it was due to the differently prepped cases, the throat starting to crack (I haven’t looked), or not cleaning the barrel and the velocities actually just needing 20 rounds to come up and settle. The barrel now has 55 rounds on it without cleaning. I will not clean it for quite a while and I’ll keep monitoring velocities. And I’ll test a batch of my original load, and original prep occasionally as a baseline comparison.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

@huntnful I’ll be the control when I start loading for my 22 CM. I don’t do sh!t .

 

[huntnful]

@huntnful I’ll be the control when I start loading for my 22 CM. I don’t do sh!t .

Hahaha excellent!!!

I mean I tested that one set where I literally didn’t do anything. Put a ring on the bullet from seating it so hard into the untouched case. And it shot the best lol.

 

[T_Widdy]

@huntnful Have you felt any heavy bolt lifts or “clickers” with this load yet?

 

[huntnful]

@huntnful Have you felt any heavy bolt lifts or “clickers” with this load yet?

Nothing yet with this charge. But in all honestly I’m running the bolt pretty good and not solely focusing on the bolt lift. I’ll take pictures of the case heads when I get home from duck hunting, and pay a little more attention to the bolt on the next trip. But nothing significant enough to me to even really pay attention to it yet with 41gr. H4350.

 

[sickles107]

First off, this project is a pretty awesome idea and extremely generous of you.

De-prime
Imperial Lube case
FL size
Wipe off lube
Bush/moly necks.
Expand with mandrel
Prime

I'm currently doing about the same process on fired brass as yours quoted. Multiple passes through the press, not to mention wiping die wax and applying moly is tedious.

Some days I dream up the idea of getting a SAC size die with the mandrel/decap pin, spray cases with oneshot, one stroke on the press and call it a day.

Would be interesting to test something similar, depending on what you have for dies.

 

[huntnful]

First off, this project is a pretty awesome idea and extremely generous of you.




I'm currently doing about the same process on fired brass as yours quoted. Multiple passes through the press, not to mention wiping die wax and applying moly is tedious.

Some days I dream up the idea of getting a SAC size die with the mandrel/decap pin, spray cases with oneshot, one stroke on the press and call it a day.

Would be interesting to test something similar, depending on what you have for dies.

I almost think the simplicity will work so good, I’m scared to try it .

Although at this point, I’m definitely convinced that 90% of a rifles accuracy is built into the rifle, before you even pull the trigger, prep a case or “develop” a load. They either shoot, or they don’t.

 

[huntnful]

Barrel has 96 rounds down it and I see virtually zero throat cracking yet. Hard to REALLY see unless you clean it. But if there is any there, it isn’t much.



Almost all rounds were shot in sequences of 10 straight also.

 

[huntnful]

With that said I don’t think those seating forces are a product of overly tight interference fit, but friction of the squeaky clean annealed neck. Same thing can be seen with brass that has been squeaky clean tumbled and then annealed. On alpha you can feel the grittiness of that annealed area.

I do very similar to you, and maybe worth a try.

Thank you very much for bringing this to my attention dude. I prepped two set of virgin brass with your recommendation. One set I just brushed, and the other set I brushed and used moly.

They both had SIGNIFICANTLY less seating pressure. It was absolutely the oxidized anneal surface causing the tension, not the case neck size itself.

They both seated extremely consistent, with the moly set taking maybe half the pressure as the brush only. Really looking forward to shooting those!!



The other 4 tests, are with my normal prep, just testing seating depths.


I did finally check my lands, and the COAL I’ve been shooting this whole time was .020 jam in the lands.