“The 22 Creedmoor Project”

[Brandon.miller.4]

Fwiw I have had extremely good luck in many different cartridges with my very simplified reloading process (I hate tinkering and extra steps).

With fired brass:
-full length size/deprime the brass dirty
-wet tumble with steel pins (cleans the primer pockets)
-prime and load.

 

[huntnful]

Fwiw I have had extremely good luck in many different cartridges with my very simplified reloading process (I hate tinkering and extra steps).

With fired brass:
-full length size/deprime the brass dirty
-wet tumble with steel pins (cleans the primer pockets)
-prime and load.

I used to wet tumble with stainless media to clean primer pockets as well. Got tired of making sure I got the pins out of the cases and getting them unstuck from the necks.

I’ve gone away from any tumbling or vibratory for that reason. It really is just faster to lube the case by hand and wipe by hand (although more physically involved). And it preserves the carbon in the necks.

I have a primer pocket cleaning tool that goes in my drill and I can do 100 cases in maybe 5 minutes tops.

 

[Schmo]

Steve,
Thanks a ton for doing this and taking the time to update on the process. I love it. I assume you’re annealing the once fired brass to kick off the prep process?

 

[huntnful]

Steve,
Thanks a ton for doing this and taking the time to update on the process. I love it. I assume you’re annealing the once fired brass to kick off the prep process?

No problem man! Happy to share. And I’m already learning a great deal from others inputs as well!

No sir. I’m done annealing for the foreseeable future. And I have a $1500 AMP annealer lol.

It doesn’t provide much, if any benefit from what I saw. It does soften the neck and shoulder, but I didn’t see that make any difference on the target, and I don’t normally shoot a piece of brass enough to see how not annealing effects its overall longevity.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

TLDR:

Form’s painless reloading process was right

 

[Schmo]

No sir. I’m done annealing for the foreseeable future. And I have a $1500 AMP annealer lol.

It doesn’t provide much, if any benefit from what I saw. It does soften the neck and shoulder, but I didn’t see that make any difference on the target, and I don’t normally shoot a piece of brass enough to see how not annealing effects its overall longevity.

Interesting! Any idea how many times a piece of quality 22 Creed brass can be resized without annealing? Is it past the life of the primer pocket? I’m just asking because I want to know for my own loading.

 

[Schmo]

Form’s painless reloading process was right

Why am I not surprised. I’m pretty sure the whole reloading process isn’t nearly as complicated as many make it to be. Seems like a good barrel will shoot almost anything, and a bad barrel is super picky or won’t group anything well.

 

[Carl Ross]

Interesting! Any idea how many times a piece of quality 22 Creed brass can be resized without annealing? Is it past the life of the primer pocket? I’m just asking because I want to know for my own loading.

This isn't going to be a question with a single answer. The less you work the brass the longer it will maintain ductility and not split. My ideal would be to have a chamber neck dimension somewhere around .002 over the neck diameter of a loaded round, then size with a bushing die or a honed die to .003 under loaded round diameter. This way you are working the brass as little as possible, while still maintaining enough clearance and enough neck tension for reliable function.

If instead you have a sloppy large chamber neck and a standard die that sizes the neck WAY down before bringing it back up with an expander ball, you could be working the neck 3x as much each firing, which will reduce it's life if you aren't annealing (and make it harder to keep straight as well).

The primer pocket longevity is similarly varied; how tight did it start (vs your primers), how much pressure are you exposing it to, how snug does the web of your brass fit your chamber?

If you're looking to become a brass miser, you should also be paying attention to how far you are bumping your shoulder vs your chamber. Case head separation will kill brass quickly if you over do it.

 

[huntnful]

TLDR:

Form’s painless reloading process was right

Yes sir. I’ve been loading like that for a couple of years also.

Literally just testing if anything makes any significant, or even minor, but consistent changes.

Way cheaper and easier to test on this “piss ant” cartridge

 

[huntnful]

Interesting! Any idea how many times a piece of quality 22 Creed brass can be resized without annealing? Is it past the life of the primer pocket? I’m just asking because I want to know for my own loading.

I honestly do not know if the life, without annealing, will outlive the primer pockets. But I’m just going test it. And I’m assuming it will.

Hopefully someone else can chime in on that with their own personal data.

 

[justin davis]

Thanks for doing this. This is really neat info and testing.

 

[Schmo]

@Carl Ross and @huntnful,
Thanks for your reply. I understand about the variability of how much brass is being worked. Guess I can test with my 223 that I shoot the most of and see how it shakes out!

 

[huntnful]

@Carl Ross and @huntnful,
Thanks for your reply. I understand about the variability of how much brass is being worked. Guess I can test with my 223 that I shoot the most of and see how it shakes out!

Yes Carl had excellent points!!

I bump shoulders .002 and only size the neck with proper bushing that put it .001-.002 under bullet diameter. So I guess that’s best case scenario for potential brass life.

 

[huntnful]

Thanks for doing this. This is really neat info and testing.

You bet!!

 

[lintond]

I love seeing this side by side comparison!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sickles107]

I almost think the simplicity will work so good, I’m scared to try it .

Although at this point, I’m definitely convinced that 90% of a rifles accuracy is built into the rifle, before you even pull the trigger, prep a case or “develop” a load. They either shoot, or they don’t.

After seeing how well the Virgin brass shot after just brushing the necks, I decided to prep 100 of the once fired cases with basically what you said here. Except I lubed them manually and just wiped it off afterwards.

Disclaimer. These are the first cases I’ve EVER de-primed and sized at the same time haha.

OD of the neck is the exact same as the virgin cases. I’m just going to brush them and shoot them.


I use to prep all my cases with hornady one shot, and then throw them in the vibratory tumbler to clean the lube off.

After testing it side by side, it was faster to just wipe them off afterwards instead of tumble. But I freaking hate wiping the cases, but also refuse to leave the lube on them lol

Totally agree on most of it being the gun.

If I recall a few years ago, few reasons for settling on current process based off nothing more than researching well known guys processes on YouTube and forums;

Pulling decap/expander ball out of FL die, and adding mandrel step (which then adds the moly step to lube mandrel) was to better control neck tension/interference with interchangeable mandrels (I use "turning arbor" .002 under) Also pulling expander ball up could pull out headspace, more so than pushing mandrel down.

Going with die wax on case body only, over oneshot, was intended to prevent oneshot from getting into necks, be it at all, or even inconsistently (only on one side of neck, or some in one case, none in another). Somewhat tied into getting moly in there for the mandrel. Allows consistant neck condition for expansion/sizing, as well as bullet seating and bullet release.

While this process has worked well for me on multiple rifles, want to make it clear that I am not a firm beleiver in the reasons above, and would gladly see them to be proven wrong. Just seamed like the best way to go about it at the time, and kinda just settled in to what worked. Food for thought in further testing.

 

[Lawnboi]

Not annealing brass for a hot rod cartridge like this, with 500 pieces of brass probably won’t be an issue. It wouldn’t be an issue even for more firings, but there are benefits to annealing beyond just not having the neck split. With premium brass I normally saw 3-5 firings before not annealing showed itself in having to adjust dies, and seating force variation.

I anneal my brass every time because I want my dies to do the same thing, and have the same grab on the bullet from firing 2 that I do at firing 10. Without annealing as brass hardens you have to adjust dies. When my dies are doing the same work through the life of the barrel it gives peace of mind, I dont like having to adjust if I don’t have to, and subsequently test, I’d rather just know my ammo is exactly the same as it was the last match/hunt/day.

An even more interesting experiment would be to do a barrel with just 50 pieces. That way you could really test reloading theory. With 500 pieces of brass and a 22 creed that may not be the cartridge to do that with.

You can do it all and still have it be pretty simple.

Anneal
Sac fl size/decap/mandrel (all at once)
Tumble off lube(dry)
Giraud trim chamfer debur

Ready to load.

Anymore I try to do whatever I can to make it fast. Not sure wiping off lube would be faster than just putting my 300 pieces of brass in the tumbler for an hour.

 

[huntnful]

Not annealing brass for a hot rod cartridge like this, with 500 pieces of brass probably won’t be an issue. It wouldn’t be an issue even for more firings, but there are benefits to annealing beyond just not having the neck split. With premium brass I normally saw 3-5 firings before not annealing showed itself in having to adjust dies, and seating force variation.

I anneal my brass every time because I want my dies to do the same thing, and have the same grab on the bullet from firing 2 that I do at firing 10. Without annealing as brass hardens you have to adjust dies. When my dies are doing the same work through the life of the barrel it gives peace of mind, I dont like having to adjust if I don’t have to, and subsequently test, I’d rather just know my ammo is exactly the same as it was the last match/hunt/day.

An even more interesting experiment would be to do a barrel with just 50 pieces. That way you could really test reloading theory. With 500 pieces of brass and a 22 creed that may not be the cartridge to do that with.

You can do it all and still have it be pretty simple.

Anneal
Sac fl size/decap/mandrel (all at once)
Tumble off lube(dry)
Giraud trim chamfer debur

Ready to load.

Anymore I try to do whatever I can to make it fast. Not sure wiping off lube would be faster than just putting my 300 pieces of brass in the tumbler for an hour.

Annealing absolutely gives a consistent case bump with each time you prep. I don’t mind screwing the die in just a hair after checking the first case when I don’t anneal though.

Basically I used to anneal everything. 1000’s of pieces of brass. Then I read a whole write up from Alex Wheeler on how he quit annealing and it made zero difference, from 6 BR to 300 NMI. Dozens of firings without issues. So I figured what the hell. He might shoot a little more than I do hahaha.

Yeah, sorry. I’m including the hour of tumbling in the comparison (which you could just be doing something else during that hour instead of wiping cases lol). And what do you use to get all the kernels out of the case and all the kernels stuck in the primer pockets?

Totally agree on most of it being the gun.

If I recall a few years ago, few reasons for settling on current process based off nothing more than researching well known guys processes on YouTube and forums;

Pulling decap/expander ball out of FL die, and adding mandrel step (which then adds the moly step to lube mandrel) was to better control neck tension/interference with interchangeable mandrels (I use "turning arbor" .002 under) Also pulling expander ball up could pull out headspace, more so than pushing mandrel down.

Going with die wax on case body only, over oneshot, was intended to prevent oneshot from getting into necks, be it at all, or even inconsistently (only on one side of neck, or some in one case, none in another). Somewhat tied into getting moly in there for the mandrel. Allows consistant neck condition for expansion/sizing, as well as bullet seating and bullet release.

While this process has worked well for me on multiple rifles, want to make it clear that I am not a firm beleiver in the reasons above, and would gladly see them to be proven wrong. Just seamed like the best way to go about it at the time, and kinda just settled in to what worked. Food for thought in further testing.

Basically my exact conclusion and how I came to it as well. Watched some videos, started that way for the most part, it worked excellent, and then I didn’t really change much because I didn’t see a reason to is all.

The raw consistency of the case neck from case to case is what matters IMO. Whatever you do, as long as you do it the same, you shouldn’t have too many issues.

You can see that where I just shoved the bullet in hard enough to dent them in the raw case. The case necks were consistent though and it shot a 10 shot .7 at 250 yards lol.

 

[Lawnboi]

Annealing absolutely gives a consistent case bump with each time you prep. I don’t mind screwing the die in just a hair after checking the first case when I don’t anneal though.

Basically I used to anneal everything. 1000’s of pieces of brass. Then I read a whole write up from Alex Wheeler on how he quit annealing and it made zero difference, from 6 BR to 300 NMI. Dozens of firings without issues. So I figured what the hell. He might shoot a little more than I do hahaha.

Yeah, sorry. I’m including the hour of tumbling in the comparison (which you could just be doing something else during that hour instead of wiping cases lol). And what do you use to get all the kernels out of the case and all the kernels stuck in the primer pockets?



Basically my exact conclusion and how I came to it as well. Watched some videos, started that way for the most part, it worked excellent, and then I didn’t really change much because I didn’t see a reason to is all.

The raw consistency of the case neck from case to case is what matters IMO. Whatever you do, as long as you do it the same, you shouldn’t have too many issues.

You can see that where I just shoved the bullet in hard enough to dent them in the raw case. The case necks were consistent though and it shot a 10 shot .7 at 250 yards lol.

I just shake them out after giving them a pretty aggressive shake In the strainer. I go from tumbler to giraud which vibrates any stuck stuff out for the most part. Occasionally I have to punch some media from a primer pocket with a small Allen key.

I occasionally tumble at the beginning as well if my brass is dirty.

Your reply to the gentleman below is exactly why I do always anneal. I don’t want to adjust my die or bushing. After annealing I have the same everything. Same shoulder bump, my die is putting the same squeeze with the same spring back on the brass. I started annealing because I ran into issues with brass hardness causing enough variation that I was getting some hard chamber rounds due to variation in headspace. Annealing made that go away, granted I probably just could have moved the bump target back and been okay.

This year I’m going to shoot 223 and dasher for basically everything, I’m really considering bust buying an amp mate so I don’t have to do it.

 

[Schmo]

This year I’m going to shoot 223 and dasher for basically everything, I’m really considering bust buying an amp mate so I don’t have to do it.

Not to hijack a thread, but just get an Ugly annealer. Way less than an Amp setup, and pretty quick. It’s what I use.