Texas school shooting

[journeyman713]

I am going to call BS on this because it sounds exactly like Tipper Gore in the 80's about heavy metal music and war movies with Arnold in them.

Wow! Really?
What exactly are you calling BS on? Common sense?

There's at least one less person to agree with you on that, law enforcement took him out this week.

So you're advocating for young people with disabilities, and broken families, to isolate themselves and shoot people on bloody video games, before they actually go out and do it? Because that's what he did.

 

[98XJRC]

So here’s a novel idea allow armed volunteers to patrol and protect the schools. FBI back ground checks, psych evals, and x number of hours firearms training, crisis mitigation, and first aid courses all required. Place the cost back on the volunteers. I’d be willing to wager that if that option was provided many school districts would have more then enough volunteers to cover the schools in their district. As a society we have become too reliant on others to protect ourselves.

Instead we want to demonize that thought process and blame the tool used.

Honestly I’m beyond disgusted about this entire thing from some of the reports I’ve read the police engaged him prior to entering the school. They did not pursue after he entered the school. building. I flat out do not understand how if you have just engaged with a shooter and they are evading you while running into a school how and or why you would not immediately pursue. Honestly it’s more proof then ever that law enforcement officers are not there for your protection. This isn’t meant as a disrespect to any LEO on this forum however this is now the second school shooting in which the SRO and or LEO failed to engage and neutralize the threat.

This is a clip from a Newsmax article. How the shooter was left alone in the building for roughly 40 minutes is completely unacceptable and I don’t know how anyone could argue any different.
“Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw said it was “within 40 minutes or so" from when Ramos opened fire on the school security officer and when the SWAT-like Border Patrol team shot him.”

 

[roosiebull]

Utopia, of course!

I just can't find it on a map...

I hear Atlantis is peaceful

 

[HornPorn]

 

[*zap*]

. This isn’t meant as a disrespect to any LEO on this forum however this is now the second school shooting in which the SRO and or LEO failed to engage and neutralize the threat.

This is a clip from a Newsmax article. How the shooter was left alone in the building for roughly 40 minutes is completely unacceptable and I don’t know how anyone could argue any different.
“Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw said it was “within 40 minutes or so" from when Ramos opened fire on the school security officer and when the SWAT-like Border Patrol team shot him.”

Yup, them disengaging from the fight and waiting for a swat team sure seems disgraceful. I was not there but sounds like they were outmatched by the kid. I could be 100% wrong on this but it seems suspect.....they heard him shooting the kids and did nothing, or so it seems.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Lots of talk about parents being part of the problem, which I agree with. It's also why I don't understand why people are so vehemently anti-abortion. May not be particularly relevant in this specific case but...say this mother originally wanted an abortion and wasn't allowed to have one, being Texas and all. Kid gets raised poorly and you end up with an unstable individual.

You're not gonna stop people from doing the deed. Might as well give them an out so you don't end up with parents that don't want to be parents.

 

[BjornF16]

So here’s a novel idea allow armed volunteers to patrol and protect the schools. FBI back ground checks, psych evals, and x number of hours firearms training, crisis mitigation, and first aid courses all required. Place the cost back on the volunteers. I’d be willing to wager that if that option was provided many school districts would have more then enough volunteers to cover the schools in their district. As a society we have become too reliant on others to protect ourselves.

Instead we want to demonize that thought process and blame the tool used.

Honestly I’m beyond disgusted about this entire thing from some of the reports I’ve read the police engaged him prior to entering the school. They did not pursue after he entered the school. building. I flat out do not understand how if you have just engaged with a shooter and they are evading you while running into a school how and or why you would not immediately pursue. Honestly it’s more proof then ever that law enforcement officers are not there for your protection. This isn’t meant as a disrespect to any LEO on this forum however this is now the second school shooting in which the SRO and or LEO failed to engage and neutralize the threat.

This is a clip from a Newsmax article. How the shooter was left alone in the building for roughly 40 minutes is completely unacceptable and I don’t know how anyone could argue any different.
“Department of Public Safety Director Steve McCraw said it was “within 40 minutes or so" from when Ramos opened fire on the school security officer and when the SWAT-like Border Patrol team shot him.”

I’ve alluded to this in a couple of posts…

1. Lesson from the “Coward of Broward” was to have LE engage immediately, even if alone

2. Unfortunately, LEO have no duty to protect you

I’m afraid it will not look good for the first responders…

40 freakin minutes…

When seconds count, police take minutes (in this case, way too many)

 

[BjornF16]

Lots of talk about parents being part of the problem, which I agree with. It's also why I don't understand why people are so vehemently anti-abortion. May not be particularly relevant in this specific case but...say this mother originally wanted an abortion and wasn't allowed to have one, being Texas and all. Kid gets raised poorly and you end up with an unstable individual.

You're not gonna stop people from doing the deed. Might as well give them an out so you don't end up with parents that don't want to be parents.

In case you missed it, the perp was born in ND, not TX

Murder is murder. Abortion just devalues human life.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

In case you missed it, the perp was born in ND, not TX

Murder is murder. Abortion just devalues human life.

I don't consider abortion to be murder.

 

[BjornF16]

Because I enjoy being difficult...

The constitution can change.

Thankfully the Bill of Rights won’t

“Enjoying being difficult“ isn’t anything I’d be proud of…

 

[String&stick]

Perfect! So how do these laws preemptively locate people with mental deficiency before they do something to come up on the radar as mentally defective?

Those would be red flag laws. . . Which have been largely bemoaned on this site before as infringing on rights as well. . .

 

[rodney482]

I don't consider abortion to be murder.

Its exactly what it is.

 

[jimh406]

I resisted long enough ... This is a great thread to choose who to use the Ignore feature with. I think I'm saving a lot of time vs picking them off one at a time on random threads.

 

[String&stick]

In addition to parents and LEO involvement, doctors are supposed to report mental illness diagnosis as well…but pretty much none of them ever do.

So before we start taking away God given rights, or limiting rights, let’s actually implement the laws already on the books.

God most certainly did not give you a right to own fire arms. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness sure, but not the right to have guns. I'm pretty Jesus would be anti firearms in general and anti all violence.

Also in the spirit of the second amendment while everyone is focusing on the "shall not be infringed" part, let's not forget the lines "a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state". So extremely strong argument that your right to have guns is tied to your service in a WELL REGULATED militia. Well regulated probably looks like training, drilling, requirements of service, etc. . .

Carry on

 

[sndmn11]

I’ve alluded to this in a couple of posts…

1. Lesson from the “Coward of Broward” was to have LE engage immediately, even if alone

2. Unfortunately, LEO have no duty to protect you

I’m afraid it will not look good for the first responders…

40 freakin minutes…

When seconds count, police take minutes (in this case, way too many)

I'll add to this. Adequately trained dispatchers, patrol, and both groups shift supervisors would advise the school to lock down. It should have also been very prominent on radio traffic.

A shift sergeant should have directed a secondary unit (the closest not in pursuit) to respond to the school if none had taken the initiative. A pursuit can always be disengaged, a tertiary unit can always roll in to cover the pursuit unit. Recent doctrine and best practices treat school perimeters as first line priorities when things happen around them, and it sounds like the pursuit might have gotten priority over protecting the school.

 

[String&stick]

This is a genuine question I don't have an answer to, but I like asking hard questions.

Are Americans spoiled, in this instance with their safety and expectations of safety? (i.e. "first world problems")

I ask because nearly all countries lose lives on this scale due to violent acts on a much more regular basis. In the Abbey Gate bombing, 13 US Soldiers perished, but there was also a forgotten 170+ deaths of Afghans. On the daily recently, reports of dozens of Ukrainians die from attacks.

Follow up question: Does the success previous generations of Americans had in providing safety and essentially eliminating peril make Americans less safe in practice?

You're not seriously comparing us to Ukraine currently being invaded by Russia (a literal war zone) and Afghanistan (literally run by a terrorist regime).

How about compare us to idk the G7 countries, countries in the NATO alliance, something remotely similar to us???

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Its exactly what it is.

Disagree.

 

[BjornF16]

Those would be red flag laws. . . Which have been largely bemoaned on this site before as infringing on rights as well. . .

Not exactly.

Red Flag laws typically can be brought by anyone, regardless off relationship or knowledge. They also are guilty until proven innocent.

Laws have already been on the books for decades to intervene with “mental defective”. IIRC, it was the 1968 Gun Control Act which introduced the definition of “prohibited person” to include mental defective


The Gun Control Act (GCA), codified at 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), makes it unlawful for certain categories of persons to ship, transport, receive, or possess firearms or ammunition, to include any person:

• convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
• who is a fugitive from justice;
• who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act, codified at 21 U.S.C. § 802);
• who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;
• who is an illegal alien;
• who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
• who has renounced his or her United States citizenship;
• who is subject to a court order restraining the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of the intimate partner; or
• who has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

 

[BjornF16]

View attachment 414362

There it is!

Utopia disappeared in the left picture!

 

[BjornF16]

God most certainly did not give you a right to own fire arms. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness sure, but not the right to have guns. I'm pretty Jesus would be anti firearms in general and anti all violence.

Also in the spirit of the second amendment while everyone is focusing on the "shall not be infringed" part, let's not forget the lines "a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state". So extremely strong argument that your right to have guns is tied to your service in a WELL REGULATED militia. Well regulated probably looks like training, drilling, requirements of service, etc. . .

Carry on

Why did Jesus tell the 72 to sell their cloak to purchase a sword?