Tenmile vs mark5hd

[Bubblehide]

Just curious then…. If a military sniper is not a “shooter” what is your definition of shooter?

Sniper is just a classification based on testing (which does not happen often.
A shooter is a person that is exceptionally accomplished, someone that practices their craft very often, continually attempting to improve in skill and knowledge.

 

[Formidilosus]

Just curious then…. If a military sniper is not a “shooter” what is your definition of shooter?

Bubblehide has a decent description. When military snipers or LE “snipers” go to a sniper, PRS, etc. match, if they don’t shoot competition on their own time, they’re dead last or close to.

Let’s put it this way- the average 6 year old practices for T ball way more hours per day/week/year than ANY sniper in the military practices sniping. Would you say that a 6 year old is a “good” base ball player?


This is getting out of the realm of hunting, but I will say that the sooner people can grasp it the better- “everything is a lie”.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

This is getting out of the realm of hunting, but I will say that the sooner people can grasp it the better- “everything is a lie”.

How the hell am I supposed to know whether or not to believe this?

 

[tdhanses]

Leupold has been the sole supplier of the standard army issue sniper optic since the 80’s. It does mean what people think it means. As I have stated before- just because something (including S&B, NF, etc) is issued, does not mean it was tested the way people think it would be.

I was talking to the KCMO PD snipers over the weekend and was shocked how highly they regarded their vortex razors, I told them to try the 18” and 36” drops and see if they still feel like they can trust them. Be interesting to see if they stay with Vortex. They liked the price and warranty and in the month they have had them didn’t have any issues.

 

[tdhanses]

Bubblehide has a decent description. When military snipers or LE “snipers” go to a sniper, PRS, etc. match, if they don’t shoot competition on their own time, they’re dead last or close to.

Let’s put it this way- the average 6 year old practices for T ball way more hours per day/week/year than ANY sniper in the military practices sniping. Would you say that a 6 year old is a “good” base ball player?


This is getting out of the realm of hunting, but I will say that the sooner people can grasp it the better- “everything is a lie”.

Yeah I was shocked to hear how little they actually practice, seemed to be they are having difficult times getting ammo and lacked close areas to actually shoot long range.

 

[Tahoe1305]

There are a lot of assumptions being made about military shooters at this point. Many are false. I’d venture to guess no one who is a shooter at a high level in the military is posting information in this thread.

Just saying.

I’d take the shooters I’ve worked with any day out of the week to war over a PRS champion. And the people that “shoot” in the military (like described above) have a say in their equipment and the requirements. And they aren’t relying on big government contracts.

 

[realunlucky]

Bubblehide has a decent description. When military snipers or LE “snipers” go to a sniper, PRS, etc. match, if they don’t shoot competition on their own time, they’re dead last or close to.

Interesting you'd bring prs competition up. Vortex is definitely dominating this competitive sport.

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[Formidilosus]

How the hell am I supposed to know whether or not to believe this?

Don’t. Go out and shoot. Having said that, what “known” things are actually true?

Ft-lbs energy matters for killing?

All scopes are basically the same?

Remington triggers are just as good as?

Light weight barrels don’t shoot?

Etc, etc.

 

[Bubblehide]

There are a lot of assumptions being made about military shooters at this point. Many are false. I’d venture to guess no one who is a shooter at a high level in the military is posting information in this thread.

Just saying.

I’d take the shooters I’ve worked with any day out of the week to war over a PRS champion. And the people that “shoot” in the military (like described above) have a say in their equipment and the requirements. And they aren’t relying on big government contracts.

If you are talking Special Forces, yes. If you are talking just a military sniper, nope.

 

[Formidilosus]

There are a lot of assumptions being made about military shooters at this point. Many are false. I’d venture to guess no one who is a shooter at a high level in the military is posting information in this thread.

Just saying.

And you’d be wrong. However, how many times did you pull the same lot number of ammunition on back to back range trips when you were a mil sniper?

I’d take the shooters I’ve worked with any day out of the week to war over a PRS champion. And the people that “shoot” in the military (like described above) have a say in their equipment and the requirements. And they aren’t relying on big government contracts.

What does “war” have to do with knowledge about how scopes work?

 

[Tahoe1305]

And you’d be wrong. However, how many times did you pull the same lot number of ammunition on back to back range trips when you were a mil sniper?





What does “war” have to do with knowledge about how scopes work?

None. I am not a sniper.

And the folks who have a choice on what scopes they use in war have scopes that work. And they understand how scopes work. And I’m just saying when it matters I’ll take them on my team.

 

[Formidilosus]

Interesting you'd bring prs competition up. Vortex is definitely dominating this competitive sport.

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I’m not sure what your point is? I didn’t talk about what scopes mil snipers use to place low in competition. Vortex is dominating in numbers of scopes on braked rifles shooting tiny cartridges, that weigh 28 pounds and suffer through no abuse whatsoever. Before Vortex “dominated” PRS type matches, S&B did, and before them Leupold Mark 4’s dominated- which almost 100% of people that were around then, would now say were unreliable and gave Leupold the bad name and reputation that they still carry.

 

[Formidilosus]

None. I am not a sniper.

And the folks who have a choice on what scopes they use in war have scopes that work. And they understand how scopes work. And I’m just saying when it matters I’ll take them on my team.

My question wasn’t just a questuin, it was also a very pertinent answer…


Who do you believe have a choice in what scope they use?

 

[realunlucky]

If you are talking Special Forces, yes. If you are talking just a military sniper, nope.

Gary your painting with much to broad of a brush. Would going to a shooting class make you a better markman? Would it propel you above your peers?
In the end it really depends on the unit some get a trip to school and issued the extra gear to carry but some units do see them as mission critical and focus on continual range time which makes any shooter better.

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[ChrisAU]

Bubblehide has a decent description. When military snipers or LE “snipers” go to a sniper, PRS, etc. match, if they don’t shoot competition on their own time, they’re dead last or close to.

Let’s put it this way- the average 6 year old practices for T ball way more hours per day/week/year than ANY sniper in the military practices sniping. Would you say that a 6 year old is a “good” base ball player?


This is getting out of the realm of hunting, but I will say that the sooner people can grasp it the better- “everything is a lie”.

I RO’d a match last year with the US Army Marksmanship Unit competing. Tyler Payne absolutely mopped the floor with the field. But I guess in the sense of a “sniper”, that’s not what we are talking about?

 

[Tahoe1305]

Who do you believe have a choice in what scope they use?

Many military units have a choice in what equipment they use (not to be confused with most or all, or SOF or non-SOF).

And I don’t believe. I know for a fact.

I don’t plan on listing them.

I am not trying to start a pissing match about this. I’m stating some facts from my position and experiences that differ from what some are assuming. That is all.

To add. I have never seen a rifle topped with vortex down range in my experience either…. If that makes it any better …..and I really like my vortex stuff until form broke it all.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Regarding Vortex in PRS…they hand out free or drastically reduced optics to almost anyone. They’re the most “affordable” to the masses. They number probably 7:1 but it’s on price/availability. Due to numbers…someone is gonna place running a Vortex

 

[Flyjunky]

Bubblehide has a decent description. When military snipers or LE “snipers” go to a sniper, PRS, etc. match, if they don’t shoot competition on their own time, they’re dead last or close to.

Let’s put it this way- the average 6 year old practices for T ball way more hours per day/week/year than ANY sniper in the military practices sniping. Would you say that a 6 year old is a “good” base ball player?


This is getting out of the realm of hunting, but I will say that the sooner people can grasp it the better- “everything is a lie”.

Have you ever been in the military? Have you gone through the scout sniper program or had any special forces sniper training?

You're trying to tell us that the people in the military who's sole job is being a sniper doesn't practice their craft even though their life depends on it?

 

[realunlucky]

Regarding Vortex in PRS…they hand out free or drastically reduced optics to almost anyone. They’re the most “affordable” to the masses. They number probably 7:1 but it’s on price/availability. Due to numbers…someone is gonna place running a Vortex

This is sidetracking so I apologize but when winning is about getting hits on targets the straight numbers in a competition became much much less meaningful.

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[Flyjunky]

This is sidetracking so I apologize but when winning is about getting hits on targets the straight numbers in a competition became much much less meaningful.

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True that.

I've never understood why what people in PRS use are such a big deal to hunters? The equipment isn't even close to being the same. I couldn't care less what someone in a PRS match uses.