Talley LW mounts out of line?

[Mr Drysdale]

So I purchased a used Swarovski Z6i 3-18 X 50 scope and mounted it on my Browning HCS 300WM in a set of Talley LW rings. Went to the range Sunday to site in and ran out of left/right adjustment. Needed to come left about 8” but ran out of adjustment. I had pulled another scope off of this exact same mount that was dead on. It appears that the mount is slightly off with the naked eye but not sure. I have ordered a DNZ one piece and will update when it comes in. Anyone else had this problem?

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

Windage adjustable bases exist because of this

 

[SDHNTR]

So if another scope worked fine out of the same base/rings on the same rifle, why do you question the mounts? Sounds like a scope issue to me. In this case anyway. The scope was the only variable that changed. Don’t think for a second that because you spent the extra money on a Swarovski scope it’s immune from problems. Quite the contrary, actually.

But… this can be a common problem with factory rifles where the holes are not in alignment with the bore. If it’s too far off, no scope or mounting system is going to properly fix that issue.

Drop a set of alignment bars into the rings and post a pic. How far off are you?

 

[Mr Drysdale]

So if another scope worked fine out of the same base/rings on the same rifle, why do you question the mounts? Sounds like a scope issue to me. In this case anyway. The scope was the only variable that changed. Don’t think for a second that because you spent the extra money on a Swarovski scope it’s immune from problems. Quite the contrary, actually.

But… this can be a common problem with factory rifles where the holes are not in alignment with the bore. If it’s too far off, no scope or mounting system is going to properly fix that issue.

Drop a set of alignment bars into the rings and post a pic. How far off are you?

Was thinking the other scope could have more adjustment.

 

[SDHNTR]

Was thinking the other scope could have more adjustment.

Even if it did, that’s just a band aid fix. You should be able to zero a scope without going too far off center of the erector. Use Alignment bars to diagnose things and go from there. If it’s minor, you might be able to lap out the misalignment. If it’s major, you’ll at least stop throwing good money at bad.

 

[Mr Drysdale]

Even if it did, that’s just a band aid fix. You should be able to zero a scope without going too far off center of the erector. Use Alignment bars to diagnose things and go from there. If it’s minor, you might be able to lap out the misalignment. If it’s major, you’ll at least stop throwing good money at bad.

Just went to the safe to check adjustment on the other scope. It had only 10 clicks left in adjustment. So it is either the mount or the mounting holes are off. Hopeing its the mount.

 

[Mr Drysdale]

Windage adjustable bases exist because of this

Could end up being the fix.

 

[SDHNTR]

Just went to the safe to check adjustment on the other scope. It had only 10 clicks left in adjustment. So it is either the mount or the mounting holes are off. Hopeing its the mount.

I don’t think it’s your problem, but I would be junking those tallieys anyways.

Try another set of rings and check those with alignment bars. You’ll find your problem in short order.

 

[SDHNTR]

Could end up being the fix.

Another band aid fix. And one that imparts stress into your scope tube. You want straight mounts, end of story.

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

Another band aid fix. And one that imparts stress into your scope tube. You want straight mounts, end of story.

Windage adjustable bases impart Zero stress into the tube. The front ring pivots.

 

[SDHNTR]

Windage adjustable bases impart Zero stress into the tube. The front ring pivots.

In theory, yes, but in reality they probably don’t at the same rate that the tube bends. Modern scopes don’t have steel tubes like the Weaver K series when those kinds of mounts were invented.

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

Even if it did, that’s just a band aid fix. You should be able to zero a scope without going too far off center of the erector. Use Alignment bars to diagnose things and go from there. If it’s minor, you might be able to lap out the misalignment. If it’s major, you’ll at least stop throwing good money at bad.

Alignment indicators tell you the degree to which a set of mounts are aligned to each other.

They don't tell you anything about how the apertures are aligned relative the bore of the rifle. You can have perfectly true rings that will be perfectly true to themselves and each other but totally out of alignment with the bore because of other factors. (position of taps in the receiver, receiver geometry, barrel fit, concentricity of the bore to the barrel, etc).

You can in fact have all of these things be perfectly in spec and still have your bore out of alignment with your scope because of tolerance stacking.

There's a reason that windage adjustable bases, Burris Signature Rings, Recknagel windage adjustable rings, and rail scopes all exist.

You could lap those rings for a week to try to get 1/3 of a degree of windage into them, but I suspect that's not going to work out well.

 

[SDHNTR]

Alignment indicators tell you the degree to which a set of mounts are aligned to each other.

They don't tell you anything about how the apertures are aligned relative the bore of the rifle. You can have perfectly true rings that will be perfectly true to themselves and each other but totally out of alignment with the bore because of other factors. (position of taps in the receiver, receiver geometry, barrel fit, concentricity of the bore to the barrel, etc).

You can in fact have all of these things be perfectly in spec and still have your bore out of alignment with your scope because of tolerance stacking.

There's a reason that windage adjustable bases, Burris Signature Rings, Recknagel windage adjustable rings, and rail scopes all exist.

You could lap those rings for a week to try to get 1/3 of a degree of windage into them, but I suspect that's not going to work out well.

I’ll agree with you there in theory also that tolerance stack could offset opposing misalignments to appear aligned, just unlikely. I’ve never seen it. It’s either off a little bit and can be lapped out, or the receiver needs entirely new holes drilled.

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

In theory, yes, but in reality they probably don’t at the same rate that the tube bends. Modern scopes don’t have steel tubes like the Weaver K series when those kinds of mounts were invented.

You're not making the windage correction with the scope in the rings, are you?

 

[SDHNTR]

You're not making the windage correction with the scope in the rings, are you?

I’m definitely not, but that’s actually what I thought you were implying. Pardon me if I’m wrong. If I were to use such a mount at all, which I wouldn’t, again I would use the alignment bars.

 

[Mr Drysdale]

I don’t think it’s your problem, but I would be junking those tallieys anyways.

Try another set of rings and check those with alignment bars. You’ll find your problem in short order.

Not what I was hoping for. What you think?

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Either your rings or your mounting holes are terribly out of alignment.

 

[Cahunter805]

View attachment 569906
Not what I was hoping for. What you think?

I have had to lap every set of Talleys I’ve ever used. Thankfully there are plenty of other great choices now and more coming like the new Hawkins rings.

It could be the scope base holes are off center in your action also which means even the DNZ mount might now help your problem.

I would lap the Talleys and see how the alignment is once you have lapped them.

 

[SDHNTR]

View attachment 569906
Not what I was hoping for. What you think?

Not good, but I’ve seen worse. That’s with unlapped TalleyLW’s? If so, and if you want to keep them, I’d break out the lapping bar and get to work. Then set the scope adjustment back to center and try again. I’m also in the campthat Talleys always should be lapped. If that doesn’t work, try a new set of rings/bases like those new Hawkins.

If that doesn’t help, off to the the gunsmith to have the holes welded and re drilled.

Yes, you could use some of these Band-Aid fixes that have already been mentioned, like windage adjustable bases and Burris signature rings with the inserts and I’m sure those would help, but they aren’t solving the source of your problem.

 

[2muchhp]

I have threaded screws into the reciever and layed a straight edge across them to find screw holes that are off. Measure the heads to be sure the diameter is the same, they usually square up pretty good. I do have a 3' straight edge but a smaller would work if there way off.Feeler gages work to measure gaps.